A thread about healthy relationships?

[BlingLoving]

Obviously, most of the time, people posting about their relationship are doing so because they're in crisis. And so the relationship board is skewed towards that. Sometimes, on those threads, people in healthy relationships come along and explain how they do things. And I'm sure that's helpful at times but maybe the OP just wants to focus on her own problem.

So I thought I'd create a thread where we can comment on why we think our relationships are healthy (I assume, based on my own experience, that doesn't necessarily mean perfect! ) and what we think makes them healthy. Perhaps people who are struggling might take a look at their leisure and consider if any of the points resonate or apply to their relationships?

In my case, I think the key points are that DH and I love each other. And what that means is that we want to help and support each other. Which informs much of our individual and family decision making. If he wants to do something I'm not wild about, I consider whether it's good for him/our family/our mental health. When DH is doing laundry or tidying up he's doing it partly because he loves me and wants me to have a nice home and he doesn't want me to have to work any harder than he does.

Also, we don't get it right all the time, not least because things change (eg jobs/finances/kids at different stages). But when one of us starts to feel it's not working, there's a discussion or raging argument that ultimately leads to us addressing it and shifts in how things happen. Eg at start of lockdown, DH wasn't working so was taking on 100% of kids. But... it became clear within a week that somehow, I was WFH and doing everything else. Meals, planning, thinking, laundry etc. We'd just slipped into it. Now, 6 weeks in, that's just not the case anymore. DH has stepped up on the home stuff. I have more actively encouraged him to do workouts etc, and am happy to ensure I stop working to do childcare during those times etc, which are hugely important and which he was feeling he couldn't do so was affecting everything else. I feel like we navigated this quite well and I'm very grateful that we're able to have these conversations arguments.

Often on this board I see families where this basic consideration and care doesn't exist and it makes no sense. Why would a man marry a woman if he doesn't want her to be happy and loved?

I really don't want this to sound smug. It's more that I used to think DH and I had a volatile relationship because we DO argue. But then I realised that the arguments lead to change and improvements in how we operate. I also realised that not everyone experiences this. I've had a number of people comment that they can't argue with their DH, for example, because it ends in sulking/days of PA behaviour/ hurtful comments etc. One friend was completely gobsmacked that Dh and I were able to discuss and come to compromises.

I expect that there is an element of childhood relationship modelling, but I grew up in a very dysfunctional household - parents had blazing, frightening rows, they both either had affairs or separated then had other partners (Not entirely sure on the details, we were very young), my dad died when i was ten, my mum was not discreet about his failings, her boyfriend moved in with us and then he cheated on her. It goes on and on. My grandparents moved in next door to us to help when my dad died, and they had a pretty poor (if long-lasting) relationship as well.

I’ve had a couple of crap boyfriends but they didn’t last long - not long enough to cause me lasting damage anyway. Mostly my relationships have been fun and friendly. I was in a relationship for seven years, starting the last year of university. The break-up was a little messy and very heartbreaking, but we’re very good friends now.

I’ve been in my current relationship for nearly ten years, married for four. I think it’s a very strong, loving, healthy relationship and we’re both very happy, but I’m a realist. There’s a lot of divorce in my family and I know things don’t always last forever. I don’t know if that knowledge is in some ways a useful thing - I don’t believe in romantic tropes and I would never stay in a relationship that had turned irrevocably sour. As far as I’m concerned, if lifelong relationships were so normal there would be no need for marriage vows in the first place. It would just happen. Geese supposedly mate for life but I’m pretty sure they don’t have weddings.

I think there’s a lot of pressure on women in particular to stay in crap relationships because we’re raised to think a wedding is the major objective of our lives, so if that marriage then fails then we’ve failed.

I’m thankful that, for all the shit in my childhood, I was never called a princess, never taught that I should dream about a wedding. Both my parents had been married and divorced before they met, so why would they idolise it as an institution? They only married each other because mum got pregnant. I was pushed heavily towards academic achievement and ferocious independence (we were left to dress ourselves from a ridiculously early age, and I had no idea how to dress well until I was in my 30s!). So success for me was never going to be about relationships with men.

My mum is a bit shit at emotional stuff (I think she might have ASD of some kind actually), but boy did she - inadvertently - teach me about boundaries. I’ve never tolerated jealously, neediness, or any kind of abuse from men. I’m not afraid to be alone.

Having said all that, I have had to learn a lot about healthy ways to communicate with partners - I grew up thinking yelling and sniping was normal. Not the blazing rows, but the day to day poor communication that my whole family is riddled with. My partner and I don’t argue, but then he comes from a family background that is very stable and healthy and voices are seemingly never raised! So what’s natural for him is hard work for me, but I do work at it. Fighting the urge to raise my voice and also interrogating the feelings and instincts that prompt the urge.
I’ve worked a lot on myself through analysis.

What works for me and my partner is that we are very equal - we both wanted the same things (e.g. not kids), and with a bit of tweaking here and there when circumstances change we put the same amount of work into our lives together. When we were both working full time we shared the housework, now that I’m temporarily unemployed I’m taking on all of that. We have mutual respect for each other, a similar outlook on the world and like the same things. We laugh a lot and make each other laugh a lot. We like to be together and work on household projects together.

We’re far from perfect, but we work on our imperfections and try to communicate well.

Sorry if this is smug married, I have no idea if it’s useful to anyone. And sorry to have rambled on.

TL:DR

• My parents / grandparents did not model healthy relationships
• I’m thankful to have been raised without typical gendered expectations and to have strong boundaries (though I possibly go a bit too far the other way and put up walls sometimes)
• I’ve learned a lot about myself, my faults, assumptions and biases and have worked to overcome them
• I’m bloody lucky to have found a partner (in every sense), do not take it for granted and hope it will last
• I know that if it doesn’t, life goes on and it’s perfectly possible to turn former partnerships into healthy friendships

God, horribly Smug Married thread. I'm a smug married, but I don't push it down anyone's throat.

My husband is kind.
I am kind.

Giving/receiving kindness is the basis of a happy life
An unkind person will not give you a happy life.

HTH

I don't think it's smug, you sound like a nice person OP and you have good intentions. We could all learn to improve our marriages etc I'm sure and it might open people's eyes

• God, horribly Smug Married thread. I'm a smug married, but I don't push it down anyone's throat.

My husband is kind.
I am kind.

Giving/receiving kindness is the basis of a happy life
An unkind person will not give you a happy life.

HTH*

Well how is this not smug? “Be kind, like I am - bish bosh, job done.”

Some of us have to work on our personality flaws!

Next time I will have to get one of these Kind Husbands™

A kind one that also is very sexually attractive and you don’t just see as a friend!

Kindness is important, and putting each other first. Respect for, and feeling proud of the other person. Think about how you speak to each other: some people seem to believe they should be able to "relax" at home by expressing every grump etc that occurs to them. It's a much nicer atmosphere at home if you both afford each other the consideration you would to the rest of the world. So no sulking, impenetrable moodiness, unkind words. You are supposed to love this person above all others, not just tolerate them in your space!

The main other thing that's important, IMO, is to find a way of discussing things before one of you gets so irritated that tempers flare.

I hope that doesn't sound smug- I agree that the OP is genuinely looking for a constructive conversation.

BitOfFun

Agree with all of this, and would add that if you’re the one who is inclined to be irritable and grumpy (like me), recognise that it’s your problem to fix, not some immutable facet of your personality.

I'm still reading these tips about how "we" do this or "if both of you" do that and wondering how you get the other person to do these nice things. It seemed that the more I did for my exh, the more he thought that was my job and took it for granted.

It's by pure chance that I've found myself with someone kind; it took me ages to even realise he was, I didn't start dating him for that reason. And I thought my exh was kind for the first ten whole years of our relationship - that, I thought, was his main plus point. I'm clearly a shit judge of character, what can I do about that?

Following!

I don’t know ravenmum I think there must be a lot of luck in it all. I wasn’t looking for anyone when I met my partner. Maybe the knack is learning when to shut it down and not staying for the sake of it? Dunno.

When I look back on it, the two bad relationships I had (one much worse than the other) were when I was young (between 18 and 20) and at my most vulnerable and, frankly, stupid. I got lucky because each of those relationships was interrupted by me moving away - first abroad for three months, second to university. If it hadn’t been for that forced distance I think I could have got caught up at that time and stuck with them for too long. Who knows? The break made me see I was better off without them.

I think this is a lovely and helpful thread! I left a man I'd been with for 7 years last summer. In hindsight - and even at the time - there were huge red flags. As a PP said I should have acknowledged them as being exactly that, and left. But I think the stage of life you're at makes a difference too - I was late 20s, desperately wanted kids and thought I could ignore those things because this might be my only chance at a family. Now, late 30s, 2 kids, I'm in no rush. I also have to protect my kids so red flags for me are red flags for them too.

I've also learned to be really honest about what I want and not what I think the other person wants to hear. silly example - My exH loved snowboarding. We talked about how maybe id go with the wives and wait for all the husbands to finish and we could enjoy our evenings together. In reality I never wanted to spend my time and money in a cold place, and he just never bothered going with just his mates. So now if I see someone on tinder who is big into snowboarding I swipe left. Minor example but these practical things do make a difference.

I've just started OLD and obvs during lockdown it's chat only but started chatting to someone yesterday who mentioned a hobby of his which led me to telling him about a (slightly woo) hobby that I recently took up. I don't think I'd have shared that info with people in the past, id have been embarrassed and think people would judge me for being stupid but I've learned to have confidence and be completely authentic in our communications. In the past I'd have gone along with overtly sexual banter just so they didn't lose interest instead of saying I don't like it, or lied about hobbies and interests.

I also learned from my failed marriage that there are some hard boundaries that I will never compromise on and certain expectations - eg kindness, supporting my interests as a PP said like allowing time for workouts, that I need to be met or it's a no from me.

Obviously none of this has been put into practise yet as I've not had a relationship since divorcing but I do feel like I'm in a much better place to recognise these things and that comes from age/experience/a lot of work on myself.

I'm still reading these tips about how "we" do this or "if both of you" do that and wondering how you get the other person to do these nice things. It seemed that the more I did for my exh, the more he thought that was my job and took it for granted.

Honestly, I don't think you can "get" someone to behave like this. It's more that if the person isn't behaving like this, and expresses no interest in changing, it's unlikely the relationship will last or be healthy. And I think that goes beyond just romantic/sexual relationships. It's true for family and friendships too. There might be more flex, but ultimately, if both people/groups in the relationship aren't willing to be accommodating and flexible then it's unlikely to be a relationship that is healthy or long term happy. I suspect this is where we see issues with the whole MIL/DIL dynamic - neither is willing to accommodate the other. My MIL is not someone I'd be friends with or particularly like in normal life. But... we've both made a real effort and while I have my issues with her I particularly appreciate that for her, as a 70+ women with a set way of viewing the world, she's really tried to understand where I'm coming from. I like to think I'm the same.

I met a couple of women at a mutual friend's 40th a few years ago. They were nice enough. But they were making fun of our mutual friend for something she does. It wasn't gentle teasing but more a genuine sense that they thought she was really bad at something. I couldn't understand it. And not surprisingly, last time I saw my friend she mentioned she's drifted away from those two women.

Emotional intelligence for both parties is the key. This allows good and frequent communication, respect and kindness. Individually it’s what helps you process the not so nice things and makes you confident and assertive.

Practical things matter as well. Having the same moral compass and ethics gives a foundation to build a life and future together. Be that as an average couple, big family or a super wealthy SW London partnership.

I think that being in love is the stretchy glue that keeps all the elements together. It’s fairly useless in its own right.

Unfortunately emotional intelligence needs to be developed and nurtured. Some people aren’t lucky in the life they are born into and they take a long time to get there. Some never get there and remain in vicious circles of failed relationships.

BlingLoving - this is another lesson I have learned the hard way, you can't get someone to change something fundamental. I also think sometimes it's just a case of not liking someone all that much. There are some people I'm willing to bend over backwards for, others no chance. So if someone isn't doing that for you and it's a relationship you think you should be a priority in - ie a romantic relationship - then that probably won't change.

if the person isn't behaving like this, and expresses no interest in changing, it's unlikely the relationship will last or be healthy.
My relationship with my exh lasted 20 years, and wasn't awful, just disappointing mainly (feeling that I wasn't getting a good end of the deal). But it was a gradual downward slope, from "what a catch" after 5 years to "I hope I haven't caught anything" after 20 years.
It's not necessarily staying for the sake of it, though - I honestly thought that the relationship could get better after whatever current setback was getting in the way. For example, he spent three years working away in the week, only coming home at the weekend. I thought that when that stress was over, we would reconnect / he'd have more time to think about his family.

I'm sure some relationships start out shit and never improve, but I would guess that most people don't launch straight into nasty bickering from day one.

ravenmum I think my boundaries must be very strong, possibly too strong in some ways - I have to remind myself to nurture friendships because I enjoy my own company and just let things slide.

Sexual attraction and just fancying someone are quite closely tied to other behaviour for me - prolonged disappointment in someone’s behaviour would turn me off so that there’s very quickly nothing to salvage and no point trying. I’ve never, ever fancied someone again once I’ve “gone off” them.

I also consider myself lucky that I’ve never wanted children, so I’ve never felt that pressure to make it work to have a family. I have a friend who keeps going back to a total loser of a man because she’s 38 and wants a baby. To me that’s absolute madness and I can’t comprehend it, but I don’t have that biological drive.

I think I’m a pretty messed up person in a lot of ways (well, who isn’t?), but it’s just fortunate for me that the specific type of messed up that I am has made me less vulnerable to being dicked around by men.

@winter Your comment re boundaries is also one. I was on another thread yesterday and remembered (it's astonishing I forgot this) that before we got married, Dh had counselling because of his anger issues. I told him that I wasn't going to marry someone who lost it so completely and I certainly wasn't going to bring children into it. I had never been even slightly scared he'd get violent with me and in his family, as long as there was no violence, this kind of extreme anger was okay. But I made it clear where my boundaries were and he respected that and got help.

Similarly, but slightly different, he had very specific lines he wasn't willing to cross regarding where he lived etc. It was very very important to him. And he made that clear very early in our relationship so that I had the option of accepting that boundary or walking away.

To take a similar example, I asked my exh if, when we had children, we could live in my country for some of the time. He was all generosity and smiles, saying that he would have no problem at all living in the UK. But years later, when I pointed out a job opportunity there that would have enabled us to actually live in the UK, he wouldn't even consider it, let alone apply. It would have been a decent career move, but a bigger step than staying with his employer and trying to move up the ladder there.

If he'd been honest and made it clear that actually, his career came first and he wasn't willing to move, then I could have walked away.

For me healthy relationships are about how you deal with issues. We don’t fight but we do work through things.

Something that I think is important to remember in relationships (but is often hard to do) is

It’s not me against you, but us against the problem

Ie if one of us is unhappy about something, how can we fix it?
Is this person willing to work with me to help fix it?
Do we both compromise to achieve a good solution?

Try and frame problems without blame e.g ‘sometimes I feel insecure when this happens’ instead of ‘you do this and it makes me’

The hardest part for me is that I’m quite competitive so often I do feel like I want to win and have to remind myself that my dp is not my competition. Likewise dp is quite defensive so I have to be careful to remind him that if I’m saying something to him it’s to outline how I feel not to blame him.

For me what makes it healthy is that we treat our relationship as something we both have to maintain and work on to help and support each other.

@ravenmum I know - there's no way to predict this level of basic dishonesty. I have a friend in the exactly same situation - he swore blind that once they had kids they'd move back to her country because he "loved it so much and couldn't wait to live there". Admittedly, as she already knew he lied about everything there's an argument that she shouldn't have believed him which is clearly not true in your case. But it's incredibly difficult.

@ravenmum but actually, based on what you've written here, I'd say you were one of the ones who did figure out it was unhealthy and as a result, moved on. I don't think you can necessarily tell in advance that a relationship will or won't be good. But there are a lot of women who clearly are in unhealthy relationships but don't realise it because they've been told these behaviours are normal.

I have a friend who can't even predict if her Dh will be home on weekends and therefore all plans have to be at her house or we accommodate her by making plans where she can bring her DC. And it's not because he's a shift worker who might suddenly have to go in but just because he may have decided he wants to go to the gym or meet friends or whatever and doesn't feel its his problem to let her know in advance and his plans always take precedence. But she doesn't seem to think this is odd at all.

I guess so, if very slowly!

I think confidence and self esteem play a huge part in building healthy relationships, I don’t expect my DH to be responsible for ‘making me happy’ and I don’t want to feel responsible for ‘making him happy’. True happiness comes from within yourself. That doesn’t mean we are not kind and respectful to each other, we are, but not at the cost of being martyrs.
Take the snowboarding example above, my DH loves skiing, I don’t but we are perfectly able to take separate holidays, we are not joined at the hip. I think separate interests and hobbies are actually helpful in a relationship- it gives you more individuality.
The other thing that as I get older I see as more and more of a common theme in ‘healthy’ relationships is shared values, backgrounds, attitudes to money etc etc ... all very dull and boring and when I was younger I would never had admitted they were important but after 30+ years of marriage I look back to all the weddings I have attended, well over half of them have ended in divorce many because of such different ‘values’.
And yes, of course I realise that a long marriage doesn’t necessarily mean a happy one .

I had many relationships with horrible men. It was only when I decided to better myself and my life that I met my other half who is a wonderful man.
I suppose what I'm saying is, of your troubled, you can attract certain types? Just glad I found a wonderful man after kissing alot of tw...frogs