Has Mumsnet changed your attitude to sex (and/or men?)

[NoMoreDickheads]

I might've got there anyway, or it could be just a phase, but I think that Mumsnet has made me realize how much men use women as objects and it has put me off casual sex with men as it seems as if they are disrespectful.

I know some people have good FWB experiences (mine was bad) or casual experiences, but I just don't feel like I would be into the thought that I was being used as a bouncy castle now. (I know women can be as into an encounter as men and stuff- just my feeling about their attitude at the moment.)

Has Musnet changed your attitude to sex or men in any way?

Oh and I think I will see through the various behaviours of men more- or at least, I hope so!

I joined MN just before TTC and am now pregnant. It's made me very thankful for the man I have.
Some of the posts make my heart break for these woman and the situations they find themselves in.
However woman can also suck the big one to. We are just as bad as men however men don't tend to public forum as much as woman do and so most of it goes on behind closed doors.

So it's not changed my opinion overly I'm just more thankful for what I have.

As a man... Remember that happily married individuals (male or female) are not on forums creating threads to say how happy they are. It is a human phenomenon that we vocalise the negative on forums, but tell everyone life is amazing on Instagram.

ONS statistics are 1.8m are abused, 40% of those victims are male . There are more women than men in the UK, so you'll find statistically, both are as about as good as each other at relationships, abuse, cheating etc!

MN distorts the image as it is a support hub, so of course it attracts mums needing support, that's the point of it!

Men are undoubtedly far more to blame for more serious crimes of sex and violence. But for more banal abuses, I think men and women are perhaps about equal.

It's made me realise that there are some horrible men out there and I didn't realise how many people are going through shit in their relationshios.
Not had any bad experiences with men myself and it's really shocking to hear what goes on.
But also on the other side of the coin - I'm shocked at how intolerant some women are in their marriages and how easily ltb is bandied about. My marriage isn't perfect but I would never leave him over some of the reasons given on here.
Going totally off subject here but I also have difficulty in understanding how a site for mums has so many members that look down on other mums who look after their own children.

No, MN has not changed my attitude.

I came to Mumsnet as a happily sexually active woman, described by some as a skirt wearing feminist, whatever one of those is.

I remain concerned about 2 things though as I read MN posts. First, I am concerned about what people put up with, secondly, l worry about those imprisoned by almost puritanical values imposed on them which prevent a happy, passionate and healthy sex life.

I'm shocked how many women are abused/raped in their sleep. I can't imagine being scared to sleep at night.

Not connected with sex, I think it did open my eyes further to how common some abusive behaviour is. And how women report the same things, all the time, about their partners, and how they are bullied by them. That there is a pattern and once you are in it it is not going to stop.

I think the perception is that domestic abuse is rare can’t be sustained if you read the relationships board. It seems endemic; as do insecure men who do it.

Incidentally men and women do not domestically abuse or control equally. The statistics show these are male crimes, committed against women and children. It’s very stark.

MN has been truly eye-opening for me. It’s shown me the importance of good sex in a relationship, the extent to which power is systematically removed from girls and women by social norms, and the incredible articulacy of most posters. I’ve been shocked by the reported behaviour of men and women equally. But it’s taken online dating to remove any last vestiges of belief in the perfectability of man

I am shocked about how many useless men there seem to be out there, I must live in a happy bubble because, whilst my marriage is nowhere near perfect, my DH does respect me, shares all childcare & housework etc, works very hard to provide financially, has never expected me to do more in the home despite being a SAHM and now working p/t for a very low wage. I find it very sad when you read about women who don’t have access to a shared bank account, can’t leave their children for a night/weekend away.

Well when the sex board regulars appear you know the threads gone to shite 🙄

If you only read bad news you'll come to believe there is no good in the world. Yes, there are many dreadful men out there. These are the MN stories we read. What we do not read - because they mostly don't get posted - are the stories of all the dreadful women out there and the stories of all the wonderful women and men. MN is a place where women (mostly) come to vent. You're only seeing one part of the picture.

Mumsnet was brilliant for me when I was splitting with my abusive ex as I read so many threads which showed me his behaviour was commonplace and not acceptable.

However I do feel sometimes it's overkill on threads where the men can't do anything right. I think prolonged reading makes one feel overly cynical about men as you only see the rubbish sides. Not every man is a monster.

Not at all. MN relationships is a very selective prism to view men and sex through and you need to remember that. If you just read this forum you'll get the impression that men do all the cheating, yet also starve their partners of sex and display all the negative behaviours in a relationship. That's because this is a forum for largely straight women to post about their dysfunctional relationship. If you go to other forums you'll see that men often have the same problems as well (excluding serious issues with violence etc. as pointed out above).

What MN has shown me though is that quite a lot of women hold on to rather troubling double standards when it comes to behaviour by men and women and that for many, empathy will trump reason and holding people to account for their actions if they are female. The things I'm talking about are: infidelity, need for sexual intimacy, financial contribution to a household for example.

Mumsnet helped me to understand abuse in a way that has freed me from it.

Reading reddit and quota helped me understand that men have a lot of a same feelings and insecurities women have when dating (even down to thinking women bond less from sex and can easily move to the next, and angsting over "why is she messaging less?!") and that they are as able to bond and as afraid of ending up alone as women are. Seeing many men's posts...they could have been any relationships post by women (except for the abuse ones, that's still mainly men due to patriarchy - they are rewarded for it and get away with it).

It's made me realise that there are some horrible men out there and I didn't realise how many people are going through shit in their relationships

Yes, I've cried reading some posts and really wanted to send them a message but never have. What some women put up with is just shocking. What the "men" they are with do is destroying them and they don't always see it and when they do, can't leave.

I am shocked about how many useless men there seem to be out there

Me too. I am absolutely horrified by the sheer amount of incredibly lazy men that won't do anything to help with DC or housework. I also hate when women say he "helps out" or " babysits" it's not bloody helping out in his own home and it's not babysitting his own DC! These men seem to do fuck all and then want sex like their partner is literally a cleaner, cook , nanny and sex doll. Ugh they make me sick.

The cocklodgers that move in with women with children seem to be everywhere! They'll do fuck all about the house, pay fuck all and are often horrible to the children. I actually know of a woman who has 4 DC and she has had about 5 cocklodgers, all the same type, with their own DC they never see, never work or can't keep a job. Makes me sick.

MN has made me very quick to challenge bad behaviour in anyone in my life. DH is great but if he does anything I call him on it. I refuse to put up with any shit. I wish I'd had MN when I was younger in crappy relationships

I think mumsnet has mostly verified what ive already known.
Marriage is overrated.
Men dont really care about us or our issues.
Most men would cheat if given the chance.
Men lie a lot.
Many men have no issues at all with being manipulative just to not have to do chores or child care.
Many see us as interchangeable.
Many will leave their family for a bit of new tail.
They expect a lot and give very little in return.

l worry about those imprisoned by almost puritanical values imposed on them which prevent a happy, passionate and healthy sex life

@StarlightLady I think I've only seen about one commenter on a thread once who was puritanical, and a fair few posts about men who have hangups about sex.

The risk of using words like 'puritanical' about women is it's a bit like 'frigid' and can give a kind of pressure for women to have attitudes they don't have or do things they don't want to do.

ONS statistics are 1.8m are abused, 40% of those victims are male

@Vretz I think that was a self-reported survey where anyone can say anything. The vast majority of intimate partner abuse, coercive control and violence is perpetrated by men. Men sometimes call the police to try and stitch up their partners to deflect from the abuse their perpetrating. Women also use violence to defend themselves. I'm not saying women can't be verbally abusive or occasionally violent, but 9/10 times the abuser is male. opdv.ny.gov/professionals/abusers/genderandipv.html This page summarizes some of the stuff by Evan Stark who is one of the pioneering researchers on the subject who did a lot to foreground the patterns of coercive control and help make it illegal.

*it’s taken online dating to remove any last vestiges of belief in the perfectability of man^

@TigerDater Lol!

If you just read this forum you'll get the impression that men do all the cheating

@Hopoindown31 IDK, there are threads fairly often with women saying they have a 'thing' for someone else etc. I get what you mean about the double standard, but everyone has their own stuff they're looking for in a relationship/sex. No-one should be unhappy, but it's what to o to make seeking fulfillment in life ethical- both how to handle when you are unhappy in a way that minimizes harm to others, and also promoting the ethos that trying to live your best life is ok maybe? I'm still reaching for some things which I learned from my 'ex' and trying to work out the limits of what things should be like maybe. He was very focused on self-fulfillment and I don't think that's necessarily wrong, but there must be a way to do it that's relatively ethical.

Hi OP, I appreciate the response but we'll have to agree to disagree here. What you've said could easily be taken as apologetics for shitty behaviour by women. While there are plenty on here that take dim view of infidelity regardless of the gender of the poster there are some one here who use similar words to you to describe away cheating by women. We've had at least two threads on here that are quite long about how women in affairs are coping due to the lockdown and where negative comments about that kind of behaviour are shouted down. That is remarkably tolerant of this kind of behaviour and there is absolutely no way it would be tolerated if the posters were men. It is the nature of the forum though and reflective clearly of the nature of some women. So, to complain about how shitty men are because they cheat is pretty hypocritical.

@NoMoreDickheads - You are misquoting me; I said “almost puritanical”. The inclusion of “almost” alters the context.

I’ll give you an example, someone once said of me in a post “we had names for girls like you when l was at school”.

managedmis I kind of agree with you. Mumsnet has made me far more of a feminist than I ever was.

There are individual men who are lovely and decent and should be recognised as such. Some are worthy of your respect and love.

But as a group and in the way they behave societally, they will never voluntarily do anything that goes against their own self-interest and that is rarely in your interest. And as a woman you should never feel bad about doing whatever you can and need to do to get one over on the patriarchy to benefit yourself and your children. They have made the rules for millennia and its a struggle to change the game.

Mumsnet has basically reinforced a lot of things I felt instinctively about men:

• That boundaries regarding behaviour are incredibly important and you have to enforce these ruthlessly or they will never respect you
• That if you feel that they are taking the piss with you, they probably are and its time to move on
• That its always far, far better to be single than in a poor relationship
• That you should never, EVER allow yourself to be put in a position where you are financially dependent on a man

There are just too many double standards on here.

Cheating women are cheered on and supported in their infidelity.

Women whose partners have gone off sex are encouraged to leave "because life is.too short", whereas men who are in the same boat are labelled as sex pests and told there's more to life than sex

Men who go.to work are expected to come he and then do 50% of the housework, despite the wife being a SAHM

Women who.dislike the physical appearance of their.partner are encouraged to withdraw sex in order to get him to comply ( in fact this is a recurring theme - use withdrawal of sex as a weapon to get what you want) but a man saying that he doesn't.like something about his wife's appearance would be torn to shreds.

It made me more aware of being secure financially if I have kids!

As a man...

Oh piss off

Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I have never ever seen a post in which a woman was encouraged to withdraw sex because they disliked their partner's physical appearance.

I think there may be a gain of truth in some of what you say, but I think you're failing to see the bigger picture. You can't discuss relationships between men and women without recognising that women are struggling against millennia in which they have been structurally disadvantaged because men game the system for their own advancement. At the most obvious level, this comes down to the fact that men still routinely earn more than women for doing equivalent jobs and that they do vastly less around the home.

I don't understand why its so controversial that a man working outside the home should be expected to pull his weight in the home. A SAHM is also working arguably harder than a man in an office and needs some support and relief in the home. I don't understand why anyone would struggle with this.

I do think its perfectly reasonable to question the validity of remaining in a relationship with no sex. That applies both to men and women. I don't think its advisable to up and leave at the first sign of a dry spell. But I don't think there's any obligation to remain with someone with whom you have no sex life at all in perpetuity and its perfectly reasonable to acknowledge that this is a problem.

Where men are picked up on this it is generally as part of an overall picture in which they expect sex against a background where they are not supporting the woman in the home.

Everything has to be seen in context. When women complain about their men its very often the case that they are kicking back against entrenched entitlement and assumptions about the roles men and women are expected to play in the set up.

Yes I learned, don’t play the role. It’s the man that does the casting and you don’t get a choice.

Most of these issues manifest if you live with a man. I think really that’s the thing I learned most, which is that there is no need for that if you are financially secure and can provide for your children.

You can still have relationships, but without the “domestic” aspect.