No contact with Mother??

[Blutterflies]

I had an abusive childhood. Only realised as an adult. My parenting has obviously suffered as a result. I know what my faults are and realise I have issues.
I am unable to have therapy, can’t afford it.
My kids love their grandmother and she is a good grandparent.
I feel nothing for her. I feel she has robbed me of a childhood and changed who I am as an adult because of her abuse.
I really don’t want to see her or speak to her anymore. I can’t forgive her.
Is it possible for me to not see her or contact her whilst my children maintain a relationship with her? They are too young to facilitate contact themselves so would have to be my partner.
Has anyone else done something like this? I just want to be free of her and she has the perfect excuse to be in my life every day, pop over, call, text etc. (Obvs not at the moment but is still texting and video calling daily)
Has anyone gone no contact and realised it wasn’t the end of their problems or regretted it?
What do you say to the children when they ask why you don’t speak to your own mother? I’m not going to bad mouth her to them. She is not to them who she was to me.
I’m so confused.

if she was abusive to her own daughter, she has the capacity to be abusive to your children... why would you be ok with her having contact with them?

I think because the realisation of her behaviour only began to dawn on me when I had my own children.
I thought it was me who had the problems and issues so began looking and researching and the penny began to drop.
She has always been a good grandparent, a completely different kind of person to them. A bit like the golden child/ scapegoat scenario. She is loving, kind,patient.
My children love her. I’m worried they will resent me for taking their grandparent away and it would be totally for my own reasons.

Sorry you went through that OP

You have to do what is right for yourself, but I get that it’s difficult if you have young DC involved who love her. I think these are issues you need to work through with a therapist or some cheaper online help, books, or online courses? I think your DC would resent you more if you don’t work through your unresolved issues and pass these issues onto them without knowing.

You have a right to go no contact and to also stop contact with your children if you feel that is best for them. But I don’t think going no contact automatically ends all of the problems and resentment this is something you have to personally work through.

She maybe good now while they are young, but turn when they start developing their own opinions.

Also, how does she talk about you to them ? Does she say to dO as mummy says or ‘isn’t mummy mean?’

Also, have you seen the stately homes thread? It has a lot of resources to tap into in the first post.

My mother stopped talking to me and my siblings 3 years ago after rowing with one of them. I can honestly say it was so much better, she wasn't a great mother or grandmother and was absent for months at a time. I use to dread seeing her sometimes and she always made family gatherings difficult. She died last year I felt sad that I didn't have a normal mother but other than that I didn't feel anything. I will never be like her the only good thing she did was give me siblings.

Thanks for the replies. I will take a look at the stately homes thread.
Yes @readyornot6 this is what I am worried about. The problems I have will still be there even if I don’t speak to her again.

@Aussiebean Once, she tried, when my youngest was a baby and was doing something like refusing or having a tantrum, foot stomping. She said “Oh, who does that remind you of?” I told her there and then if she ever said anything like that again to my children she would never see them again. As an isolated incident it wouldn’t seem to the naked eye like a harmful comment but I knew if I let that slide, there would be more. She hasn’t said anything since.

@Quibblewibble Sorry to hear that about your mother. I already know I won’t feel sad when my mother dies. I wish mine was absent but is the opposite. Always wanting to be around, to be involved.

I don’t understand why you want her around your dc. Regardless of how great a grandparent she is, she was, by your reckoning, a terrible parent with lasting consequences on you. Why do you want her in the peripheral of your life and totally in that of your children? Doesn’t seem sensible.

Do you trust that she won’t say horrible things to them when you are not around?

My mum has not met my kids for the same reason. At some point she will turn/let the mask slip and make them feel like she made me feel. She might be a good grandmother now but having nobody supervise could make her bolder and more nasty

I do think that she wouldn’t do anything to hurt my children. She adores them and they her.
Trust me, if I thought for one minute she was damaging them even slightly I would cut all ties and she would never see them again.

It’s not just the act of cutting her off, it’s having people think I’m mean, angry, impulsive and rash which is the image of me she has always perpetrated through my childhood.
Family members/ family friends will judge me and try and make me feel guilty for not speaking to my wonderful mother who brought me up single handedly, did everything she could for me and had to deal with me being a little monster all my childhood and teenage years.
Unfortunately, like many narcissistic parents, she does a very good job of making people think she’s perfect, playing carefully placed guilt cards and minimising any wrong-doing she has done.

I don’t know if there is a more up to date “stately homes” thread? Last one I could find was 2016.

I just wish I didn’t have to deal with her and being away from her during lockdown has really brought a lot to the surface and I feel I can’t settle until I do something.
I am fully aware that I need therapy but I just can’t afford it. It would be worth every penny but I don’t have the funds.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3786141-But-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-January-2020-onwards

Here you go.

I suggest you look up the FOG. Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

@Headbangersandmash one of my deepest regrets is that I didn’t cut her off before I had children. It sounds silly but I didn’t know how bad it was until it was too late.
The effects of her abuse are far worse in adulthood than I remember them being growing up.
I suppose it’s because I know what I missed out on now. When I was a child I assumed everyone’s experience was like mine.

Most of my therapy cane from the stately homes board and the links.

But ask your gp to put you on the list. It will take a while but worth it.

You all as a family unit here need to stay well away from her. What you propose (i.e is it possible for me to not see her or contact her whilst my children maintain a relationship with her) does not work and will not work.

A good rule of thumb here is that if she is too toxic/difficult for YOU to deal with, its the same deal for your kids too. From your replies also, she has already tried to start on them and she will harm them in not too dissimilar ways as to how you have been harmed. She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she certainly is not a good example of a grandmother figure to them now. The golden child/scapegoat dynamic is a very damaging one here and this will also affect the siblings relationship with each other.

You are the parent here. You get to make these decisions without apology or excessive justification. You can assure your children that you are making a wise and loving decision for them as well as yourself. I am not going to script what you should say because you are the only one who knows your children, but you must convey that this isn't up for negotiation. This is not a decision that they get to make. Yes, children usually love their grandparents. Children are often quite indiscriminate in their love which is why they need parents to guide them. Not every person is safe to have around and this is a good time to teach that important life lesson. The more matter-of-fact you are, the more matter-of-fact your children will be. When we act hysterical, they will usually reflect our hysteria. If you act anxious, they will act anxious. If you appear unsure, they will push. Model the reaction and attitude you want your children to adopt.

If you have another set of grandparents in the picture then focus on them. It is rare that both sets of grandparents are nasty. Emphasize to your children how much we enjoy being around grandma and grandpa so-and-so (the decent and loving grandparents). Cultivate your children's relationship with the decent, loving grandparents. Teach your children to be grateful for the decent, loving grandparents. Gratitude is a highly effective antidote to loss. Focus them on what they have, not what they don't have. Model that attitude of gratitude.

You will find that the children will eventually stop mentioning the loss of their toxic grandmother if you are not bringing it up. If you are talking about your parent in the hearing of your children then you are inviting them to keep talking about it, too. I can not over-emphasize the need for your explanation to a younger child to be calm, pragmatic, measured and short. Long explanations make you look defensive which will tend to peak the interest of the child and prompt him to push the issue. You can gauge what is appropriate information depending on the age of the child. If the child is older and has experienced or witnessed the grandparent's nastiness in action then you can say more.

Young children are not known for their long attention spans. This works in your favor. With younger children you have the advantage of distraction. It is easy enough to get the child's mind off onto another track. Every parent has done the distraction routine at one time or another. "Mommy, I want to see NastyGram today!" "Honey, we aren't going to see NastyGram today because we get to go to the park and eat ice cream." (Make up fun time on the spot if necessary for this distraction.) "Yay!!" says the kid and off we go. Subject changed, kid distracted. In time, NastyGram will fade from memory. Any bonding that may have occurred will dissipate in the process of time.
. You're older and therefore more experienced which is the point of being the parent. The child is dependent on your good sense and protective wisdom. You're smarter than your child; use that to your advantage (such as using the distraction method). You are the final authority. This is not a negotiable issue. Your children do not get to decide on this one because they lack the understanding, wisdom, experience and good sense that, hopefully, you have. So don't look like you're unsure or open to quibble. You'll undermine yourself if you look anything but firm and resolved on it. Use your advantages as parent to smooth the effects of the cut-off. Over time this will all quiet down. Kids tend to accept what is. It will happen more quickly if you follow the above advice.

Most of all, do not operate from a fearful mindset. Don't be afraid of your children's possible, or actual, reactions. Don't be afraid that you are depriving them of something important by cutting off a set of grandparents. You are only "depriving" them of bad things. Reassure yourself with that truth. Family is not everything. Blood is not binding. You are escaping the Mob Family. What should connect us is how we treat each other with love and respect. This is always a good lesson to teach our little ones. If any part of you is unsure of your decision then, for Pete's sake, don't show it. Your resoluteness will go a long way toward reassuring your children that you are acting in everyone's best interest. If your children know that you love them, they are going to feel reassured that this decision is also based in your love for them. They will find an added sense of security to know that you, as their parent, are willing to protect them even at the cost of your relationship with your own parent(s). Rather than being fearful, see the plentiful opportunities in this. You are protecting your children from someone whom you've experienced as being abusive; you are reassuring your children that you are in charge and are watchful for their best interests (creates deep sense of security); you can teach healthy family values which include that family doesn't get a pass for abusive behavior; you can strengthen and reinforce the healthy relationships in your extended family. Kids are less likely to feel like there is a void in their life if you fill it with good things.

Please also look at and post on the current "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationship pages (as you will see its been running a long time).

I used to marvel at my friends who
Loved their mothers. It was inconceivable to me that they would want to spend time with them considering how nasty mothers were.

Took a while to get it.

Thank you @Aussiebean

BACP are good and I think they also operate a sliding scale of fees.
My counsel re finding a therapist would be to find someone who has NO familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment. Also you need to find someone who fits in with your approach. I would also interview these people thoroughly and at length before choosing any particular one.

"Family members/ family friends will judge me and try and make me feel guilty for not speaking to my wonderful mother who brought me up single handedly, did everything she could for me and had to deal with me being a little monster all my childhood and teenage years".

But will they judge you, is that really their perception or basically one you have been led to believe is true by your narcissistic mother?.
If they really did the above then these people as well are not worth bothering about or with.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you for taking the time to write that response. I think you are right. The issues I have are

1. I don’t think I have the strength to go through with it Or the tools to properly manage my children’s emotions/ questions.

1. My mother lives very close by and is very closely linked to my own social circle.

1. I don’t know if I am just making excuses for her but I truly believe she is not the same person she was to me. I hate her for how she treated me but she is not like that now. She knows I have the power and authority over her.

1. My children have no other grandparents. Their others are dead from alcohol abuse and my step dad is long gone.

Oh my goodness @Aussiebean I was exactly the same. My friends used to call their mums sweet and tell them they loved them, hug them and I just put it down to it being cheesy and fake!!! I thought they were soft and weak.

I’ll move over to the newest stately homes thread. I’ll check this one for the rest of the day incase any replies.

Thank you so much. I feel like I’m at the beginning of what could be a new outlook

I was a very angry/ difficult child. I thought that it was because I was flawed.
My mother was very good at painting me to be a monster. She’d be on the phone within seconds if I did anything wrong.
I used to get her friends trying to talk to me all the time telling me how much she did for me, how ungrateful I was, how she tried her best when the world was against her (she’s always the victim)
I think they know a bit more about what she’s like now but unfortunately she picks a certain kind of person to befriend. People who are easy to manipulate. People with a lot of empathy, people who seek love and approval.

OP, therapy doesn't have to be really expensive. BACP have a sliding scale depending on income and some charge around £30 an hour. It's generally suggested that therapy once a week at minimum, in order for the therapy to be able to 'hold' you.

It sounds as though suddenly cutting your mother off would be took much right now. It's easy for people to say but not so easy in practice.

Try setting boundaries. It's very hard when you're not used to doing it so just take some steps. Learn some stock phrases as it's easy to be caught off guard or to follow well worn habits.

A good one is, 'I'll think about it.' or 'Perhaps another time.'

M: I'll come over today, have some socks for the children.
Y: You know, I'm really busy today, perhaps some other time.
M: Tomorrow?
Y: I'll think about it.

Assertiveness is like a muscle that you have to use in order to become a habit. Remember that you're not responsible for her feelings or her responses. You're responsible for your own. You're also responsible for protecting yourself.

If £30 is still too much, CBT is available from Anxiety UK at a reduced rate for those on benefits or earning under a certain amount. There are also places like Mind who do counselling and there may be other resources in your area that may come up if you do a search.

I would go low contact for the time being OP. I understand that she has a good relationship with the children but she's walking all over you. She doesn't get to decide when she sees the grandchildren, you do. You're not doing anything unreasonable by setting a limit on how often she sees them.

Re your comment in quote marks:-

"The issues I have are

1. I don’t think I have the strength to go through with it Or the tools to properly manage my children’s emotions/ questions".

You do really but your mother is still very much in your headspace. You are the parent here and your children are relying on your good judgment. This is not a decision that they get to make. Yes, children usually love their grandparents. Children are often quite indiscriminate in their love which is why they need parents to guide them. Not every person is safe to have around and this is a good time to teach that important life lesson. The more matter-of-fact you are, the more matter-of-fact your children will be. When we act hysterical, they will usually reflect our hysteria. If you act anxious, they will act anxious. If you appear unsure, they will push. Model the reaction and attitude you want your children to adopt.

"2. My mother lives very close by and is very closely linked to my own social circle.

I would now consider moving away because you need to have physical as well as mental distance from her. What are your own boundaries like here with regards to your mother?. Probably very poor too mainly because she has never encouraged you to have any. Find ways to gradually break away from her "and establish new friends outside your mother's sphere of influence (how many of your social circle are really like her?).

"3. I don’t know if I am just making excuses for her but I truly believe she is not the same person she was to me. I hate her for how she treated me but she is not like that now. She knows I have the power and authority over her".

You've been well and truly trained by your mother to put her first with your own needs and wants last. Many adult children of narcissists do believe this work of fiction that somehow the narcissist parent will behave better this time around despite their own childhood experiences to the contrary so what you are writing is not unusual at all. She is however, still very much a narcissist and she is now using your children here as narcissistic supply for her own ends. She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she has not changed fundamentally since. And re your last sentence, you really do not.

"4. My children have no other grandparents. Their others are dead from alcohol abuse and my step dad is long gone".

I am sorry your children only have a narcissistic grandparent in their lives present day but this is someone they really do not need in it. Children need emotionally healthy role models people around them. Having your mother at all remain in your life, let alone theirs, will be a decision you will come to regret bitterly.

It is imperative to let yourself know that, without profound evidence to the contrary, your narcissist parent is a narcissist still. You must let yourself know for a fact that your Nparent can not be trusted with your most precious responsibility, your children. If you allow contact between your children and your Nparent it must never be out of sight. Never for a moment leave your child alone with this serial abuser. They only need a few moments of alone time to inflict damage. A whisper, an insinuation, a pinch, a look. And you've seen that alreadyhappen with your children already and in front of your very eyes.

Thanks.
I think low contact is definitely the best option for now. As you said it will help me assert myself with her.
It’s obviously helping her not being able to come around.

There’s no way I can just up and move! We love our home, our friends, our children’s school.
If I told my mother that I never wanted to see her again, she wouldn’t come round. She would walk around with her tail between her legs making people feel sorry for her but she would stay away. She would also probably try and send presents etc to the children. It would suit her down to the ground that her horrid daughter had broken her heart and taken away her precious grandchildren. She may go as far as a suicide attempt, definitely a nervous breakdown.

I will look into therapy as I am very confused about many aspects of my life and need to pick through them.

I’ve put a very short “Hi” Message on the stately homes thread.