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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Is it abuse?

38 replies

Ruacai89 · 27/04/2020 12:22

Hi I'm having a hard time figuring out if it is abuse or not. I feel it is. I have an older cousin who has downsyndrome, he's at least 10 years older than me. I would occasionally stay with my aunt and uncle (his parents) and when I would go upstairs to play he would make me touch his penis and put it in my mouth. I can sometimes smell a smell that reminds me of it and it turns my stomach. He would touch me too. His parents caught him a few times and it was just brushed under the carpet. A few years ago my mum told me my uncle (my cousins dad) abused her when she was young too. Nobody listened to her so it was also brushed under the carpet. Is it abuse? Does it count even though he has downsyndrome? I would just like some answers to make it easier to understand. Thank you x

OP posts:
Ulver · 27/04/2020 12:25

Yes it is abuse.
Is the father of the Down’s syndrome child the one who abused your mother?

NoMorePoliticsPlease · 27/04/2020 12:26

This is very complex and would need careful unpicking. He may or may not have understood what was wrong, he may have n=been sexually abuse and it was normalised. Of course it was wrong. Whether or not you use the woed abuse is not helpful. Historically things are hidden. You may need to seek some professional help to unravel your feelings. The fact that he had Downs is just an added confusion for you

bilbodog · 27/04/2020 12:26

Yes it is abuse. How old were you both when this started? Sounds as if your cousin may have been abused and then gone on to do it to you as well? I have no specific expertise or experience of this but others will come along shortly. Im sorry this has happened to you.

PeanutDouglas · 27/04/2020 12:27

Yes it is abuse. He probably learned the behaviour from his father. Dreadful situation, I’m sorry.

Warsawa31 · 27/04/2020 12:31

What a horrid situation ! Yes it is abuse obviously his understanding of it may not be what a reasonable persons understanding would be. As others have said he must have learnt that behaviour from his father :( how old was your cousin as compared to you? Just thinking If he was 20 and you were 10 for eg then he may have learned that from porn ? I don’t know, it’s a safeguarding issue he can’t be alone with children can he so something needs to happen to protect them

Dontcoughnearme · 27/04/2020 12:33

I would report this to social services as your cousin could still be abusing others. It sounds like it learnt this behaviour from his father.
He could have seen it happening to your mother, and learnt it from those episodes of abuse to do it to you. It's a vicious circle.

Please seek help.

Original poster
Ruacai89 · 27/04/2020 12:33

Yes my cousins father abused my mum too, He is her sisters husband. I was between ages 4-7 it happened on many occasions. I understand he may not of been aware what he was doing but that doesn't help how I feel about it. I don't know how to make sense of it in my head.

OP posts:
Cinders29 · 27/04/2020 12:34

Gosh this is a hard one.

I have a son with special needs. I would be absolutely distraught if he was to do this to another person however, due to severe learning difficulties I'd be 100% he wouldn't know what he was doing so I'm not sure if I'd class it as abuse. Depends on the individuals level of understanding though.

Because of my sons inability to know what is right and wrong in that situation I would never ever allow him to be left alone with a younger child or actually children his own age once puberty hits and there's that risk factor. ( I was abused by my older step brother and I've learnt from that how easy it can happen if children are left to play with each other without any supervision. )

The blame here lies with his parents who as you've said one half is an abuser.

As pp said, please go and get professional help for this. You need to talk about this and process it properly. I'm so sorry this happened to you.

MrsMonicaBing · 27/04/2020 12:35

This thread should have a trigger warning

Original poster
Ruacai89 · 27/04/2020 12:37

I remember him looking at the sun's page 3 models and weird stuff like that. He is at least 10 years older than me. He lives in supported housing now I don't really keep upto date with them anymore. His sister has a young child though which is concerning. Would I be taken seriously if reported? My mum doesn't want to report because it would upset his daughters my.cousins sisters😕.

OP posts:
lunar1 · 27/04/2020 12:41

We have no way to know if he had the capacity to understand what he was doing. But his parents knew, after the first incident they should have ensured it never could have happened again, your parents should have been told as should the police.

It might not have led to any criminal charges, there is a vast range with Down's syndrome and without being assessed there is no way to know if the abuse was deliberate or not. That doesn't change the fact that it happened and you should have been protected Thanks

Apple1029 · 27/04/2020 12:42

This is abuse op. Your mothers attitude is terrible and she failed you as well. So she told you that it was done to her too and that was that? And now she wants you to brush it away. Disgusting.
This person may not be of mental capacity to know what's right or wrong but those around him need to know. If he wasnt stopped back then why would he have suddenly stopped now?
Frightening that there is children around him and it could still be happening.

Original poster
Ruacai89 · 27/04/2020 12:49

I do feel a bit Angry that I was aloud near him and his father. But when my mum tried to tell her mother about it she was silenced so it kind of became her normal if you know what I mean. Because he may not of known it was wrong how should I feel about it? If it's not abuse how do I find a feeling or word to come to terms with it?! It messes with my head real bad.

OP posts:
SharedLife · 27/04/2020 12:55

I would say they are two separate issues. Your ability to come to terms with the fact that you were sexually abused as a child, and safeguarding your cousin and the people around him from these behaviours.

Whatever your cousin's capacity, you were a very small child who was forced into a sexual act by an older person. I hope you can get support to come to terms with it.

From your cousin's point of view, he may not understand at all that what he did was wrong or he might. I think a referral to social services needs to be made. They can assess his capacity and put safeguarding measures in place to keep everyone safe.

I've worked with many young people and adults with learning disabilities over the years. Some have no concept of age difference between people, some because of cognitive impairment and some because they've always been treated like a very young child. The same with privacy. Some adults I've worked with dont think of their genitals as anymore private than any other body part because someone has always supported them with personal care and the concept of privacy has never been taught or contextualised.

Whatever your cousin's "reasons" you don't have to rationalise or try to explain away what happened to you. You were abused and have every right to feel whatever it is you feel about that. X

artistformerlyknownas · 27/04/2020 12:57

I'm so sorry this happened to you OP.

Sorry to others as well with children with SEN etc, but it absolutely IS abuse whether the person understands that it is abuse or not. Their level of understanding does not change the details of the act or the effect on the victim. The only thing that is different is the level/type of punishment that would result on conviction. If a person is not capable of understanding that their actions are abusive and is not capable of changing their behaviour, then they need to be adequately supervised at all times. Saying that it's not abuse because the abuser doesn't understand is actually quite terrifying.

randomchap · 27/04/2020 12:58

Get some professional help if you can. With him having Down's it adds a huge amount of complexity to an already difficult situation. A professional therapist can help. It helped me.

brummiesue · 27/04/2020 13:01

You have to report this, he could be doing it to his niece or other vulnerable children.

Mummyoflittledragon · 27/04/2020 13:03

I absolutely would report it. Maybe his father was abusing him too. I’m so sorry for what you went through. Sad

x2boys · 27/04/2020 13:05

I have a child with severe autism and learning disabilities who wouldn't have the capacity.to understand why this would be wrong ,it doesn't mean it isn't abuse though .

Charmatt · 27/04/2020 13:06

Yes, it is abuse. Regardless of the disability, you were forced to do something you didn't want to do.

It is complex, because you may have been abused by someone who didn't understand it was abuse because of their lack of understanding and the possibility that they may have been abused too. However, there is another child now at risk. Regardless of how upsetting this may be for other people, you and your mother are victims and there is another potential victim too.

You are not responsible for the feelings of relatives, but safeguarding is everyone's responsibility.

Charmatt · 27/04/2020 13:08

To add:

I also have a child with autism and learning disability and it is still abuse, whether or not he had capacity to understand. You had a crime committed against you. Whether or not the person has the mental capacity to be charged with it does not mean it was not a crime and it was not abuse.

If someone without mental capacity murders someone, it is still a crime, they just don't have the mental capacity to be charged with it.

ConstantlyNameChanging97362 · 27/04/2020 13:10

This could be very outing but does he have a brother with a name begining with M?

I know a family who have had this happen a few times within the family and wont report it because he has down syndrome

Molliemoo10 · 27/04/2020 13:17

Well it needs reporting to the Police asap especially if there are now other children that could be vulnerable.

If it was abuse or not is a difficult one and really depends on his mental capacity but honestly at this point it doesn't matter what it is classed as and you really need to let the authorities deal with that aspect of it.
You need to get help with digesting what has happened to you and learning to overcome it so some type of therapy that you feel comfortable trying would be a really good thing for you.

x2boys · 27/04/2020 13:18

A bit different but I have a friend whose young adult child who.has autism and learning disabilities, has physically abused their younger sibling on numerous occasions the young adult was,nt charged as they don't have the capacity to understand what they did wrong but after it all came to light social services became involved and the young adult had to leave the family home and live in supported accommodation untill.risk assessments etc were carried out

Original poster
Ruacai89 · 27/04/2020 13:27

Is there a way to report it but kind of keeping me out of it? ConstantlyNameChanging97362 no he only has 2 sisters. I want to tey some therapy but the waiting lists are really long. I just feel confused and horrified at the same time. Bit thank you for all your advice I really appreciate it. Xx

OP posts: