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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do I ensure I get what I want/ working out what's important?

63 replies

jojobar · 14/04/2020 11:03

I was in a 6 year relationship which has very recently ended.

Before I met him, I was single for a VERY long time. Some of that time I was happily single and not looking to meet anyone, some of it I was actively dating. The dating was 98% shitshow - you name it and I encountered them, to paraphrase Bridget Jones - alcoholics, workaholics, commitment phobics, people with girlfriends or wives, misogynists, megalomanics, male chauvinists, emotional fuckwits or freeloaders, perverts...plus druggies, racists, ghosters. You get the idea.

I was pretty disillusioned and jaded and can honestly say that in 5 years of dabbling on and off with dating I didn't meet anyone who didn't fall into the above categories (some fit into several of them). So I decided to think about what I wanted, some kind of cosmic ordering, to work out what was important to me.

And I decided that I wanted someone who I found attractive physically and mentally, who was intelligent (not necessarily uni educated, but had views about the world and was articulate enough to express them), had a similar earning capacity to me and was also financially independent, who valued my intelligence at least as much as my physical appearance, who wanted a relationship not just casual dating ad infinitum. Who was generally respectful of women, and who didn't have issues with alcohol or drugs. Someone who could mix with my friends, my professional colleagues and my family and not feel uncomfortable or out of their depth. Who made me laugh and who was kind to me, and whose company I enjoyed being in. Who enhanced my life rather than drained it.

And I met my Ex and he pretty much ticked all those boxes. He was my ideal man physically/ lookswise, and he was also reasonably well off/ successful, wasn't looking to play the field, apparently quite well adjusted etc.

Over the ensuing years I've realised that as well as ticking all the above (and even other things that weren't on my list, like he's a great cook) he also had a number of issues. Last year we split up, and I discovered he'd been unfaithful to me. He has issues around sex which are very deeprooted and linked to traumatic past events. His MH is also poor, this has been ongoing for many years. And most recently, there was an incident which he refuses to apologise for, choosing to blame me for feeling upset that he poked me in an argument to 'make a point' and can't see why that isn't an appropriate thing to do to me, despite knowing I'd previously been in a relationship involving domestic violence.

So that's the end of things between us. Obviously it will be a while before I can even consider another relationship, but I'm trying to learn from this and thinking again about my wants list. One thing I noticed when we were together was that he didn't do much for me 'just because'...you know the guy who brings his partner flowers? Or surprises her with a gift? Or mows the lawn, or cleans her car? no, none of that, ever. He bought me flowers about 5 times in total. He did sometimes warm my side of the bed on a cold night, or bring me a towel when I was in the shower, but not many other meaningful gestures. Would I be wrong to want more of this?

Although I felt quite secure in the relationship, he also wasn't committed to me in the fullest sense, everything we talked about was always 5 years ahead. I would have liked an engagement ring. He made noises about it once, briefly, never happened.

Things also often got left to me to arrange even though I was always much busier than him. He never took the initiative to do anything to help me (even though I often did for him).

I think these are all things I'd like in my next relationship whenever that might be...am I being fair to expect this? How do I ensure I get what I want?

OP posts:
AndSheSteppedOnTheBall · 14/04/2020 16:35

@reallywhereisthebar

The issue as far as I can see it isn’t about expecting thoughtfulness, it’s that OP is completely ignoring the very obvious major problems in this relationship and focusing on stuff like the frequency of gift giving as if that is the problem. It clearly isn’t.

She doesn’t seem grounded at all, she seems to be struggling (quite naturally) with a break up and grasping at straws to find reasons to get back together with a man with whom she has no future.

Sorry to be blunt, OP, but you can’t see the wood for the trees. Break-ups are tough, I hope you get through it as quickly as possible and come out of the other side with a more positive outlook.

Ragwort · 14/04/2020 16:36

I think you are quite right to set high standards, in my opinion far too many people are prepared to ‘settle’ due to fear of being single Hmm.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to meet someone with whom you have similar views, similar lifestyle and are physically attracted to ... isn’t that what most people want? Confused.

reallywhereisthebar · 14/04/2020 16:40

@AndSheSteppedOnTheBall people choose what's important to them and that's fine! Of thoughtfulness and the frequency of gift giving is what makes OP feel loved, why should we dismiss that?

I disagree that she's wanting the relationship back. Her post doesn't read like that to me. She's a woman who wanted to find out if her expectations are too high, proceeding into her next relationship. At least, that's what I got from her post.

noyoucannotcomein · 14/04/2020 16:43

I can count on the fingers of one hand people I am compatible with in both intellectual and personality terms... in fact I wouldn't even need the whole hand.

People that you've met, surely?

AndSheSteppedOnTheBall · 14/04/2020 16:43

“Spending your lives together” is not a life goal.

What do those lives look like:

Where do you want to live? do you want children? How do you plan to handle finances and assets as a married couple / parents? Do you want to travel? Will one or both of you maybe want to change careers or similar at some point? What are your ambitions? When do you want to retire and what savings do you need to retire on?

Those are some life goals. Those are some of the things that should be discussed before a marriage proposal and on an ongoing basis in a relationship.

“He says he didn’t cheat on his ex wife so if we were married he won’t cheat on me again” is breathtakingly naive.

jojobar · 14/04/2020 16:44

We argued last week, in that argument he poked me/ prodded me however you want to term it, to make a point that he could. He knows that I was in a DV relationship some years ago and that something like that would upset me. He is physically much bigger than me (6 inches taller and about 9st heavier).

I expected him to contact me and apologise. He didn't. When he did contact me, he said he wouldn't apologise because he didn't think what he did was wrong.

So thats where we are.

OP posts:
jojobar · 14/04/2020 16:48

We were in agreement on where we would live in 5ish years, and thereafter. We were in agreement on having a joint account for joint expenditure and separate accounts for ourselves. We had a rough plan of when we expect to retire and what that would look like and how we hoped to spend our time. That's what I meant by agreeing on spending our lives together - we had as part of that agreed what those lives looked like. It wasn't just a 'oh let's stay together forever, yes I agree' kind of thing.

OP posts:
AndSheSteppedOnTheBall · 14/04/2020 16:49

@reallywhereisthebar

The subtext of every one of OP’s posts is “why doesn’t he want to marry me?”.

It sounds like a mess, she needs to move on and recognise what really went wrong (and it really doesn’t sound as if that was just not enough gifts).

AndSheSteppedOnTheBall · 14/04/2020 16:55

OP, he doesn’t want to marry you, and if you’re concerned about DV with him then it’s very much for the best.

It’s horrible to break up when you’re in love, but all you can do is wait to get through it.

The point I’m trying to make is that I don’t believe the problems in your relationship are what you seem to think they are, based on what you’ve posted.

Take some time to get over this - further down the line you’ll probably see things very differently to now, in the heat of it all.

noyoucannotcomein · 14/04/2020 17:01

Just read your other thread. He was a prick. But why would you want to get engaged if you have no desire to get married?

Together six years and not living together. Lockdown has shown you your future. Just be glad of that.

jojobar · 14/04/2020 17:11

The marriage thing is a little difficult to explain...I don't want to be married as I don't want to be someone's wife, I want to be their equal (I know for some this is semantics but the whole idea of marriage is just not something I'm comfortable with). However I did want some kind of commitment, which for me would be a form of engagement, and then a civil partnership.. my Ex saw the merit in this as being different from marriage - which for him was sullied by his previous experience. So it's not like he didn't understand my views on all this.

That wasn't why we split up though. Nor was the not living together which given our specific circumstances hasn't been possible previously in a way either of us would have been comfortable with.

OP posts:
Ginfilledcats · 14/04/2020 17:17

Whilst I agree we should all have high standards for ourselves and though trust and fidelity should be way higher up than "he must buy me gifts just because" I think we all can agree it would be lovely to be spontaneously bought things or have nice things done for us.

Reality though is, it won't be like that all the time, and if it was it would be fake and done just to tick a box. My husband is amazing, perfect in many ways and does buy me gifts regularly just because (he's on his way home with 2 Easter eggs now actually) however if he put his DAMN WASHING AND IRONING AWAY (that I've done) the day it was placed on his dresser (by me) Id probably appreciate that more and make a far bigger deal out of it (positive reinforcement).
He usually buys me flowers on payday (Tesco £5 bunch) but when he forgets or just doesn't I wouldn't kick up a fuss or dump him or anything. he has a very stressful job and sometimes needs to think of himself first and come in and slob.
Just as I do sometimes. Ie I can never be arsed loading the dishwasher let alone unloading. But the reaction I get when I do bother to do it is more than the reaction I'd get if I massaged his feet or did some admin or picked him up a beer from the newsagent.

It's about consideration of each other in realistic things I think.

Yes you do sound like you have a romanticised version of love, but why the hell not. As you say, too many put up with too much shit or accept the mundane or the rude. As long as you are absolutely giving the same as you expect then it's fair enough. But I certainly hope you don't set out your expectations on day one. How crass.

Learn to grow with each other, communicate - some men (not all) are considerate but they need a push in the direction you want "so and so's husband always brings her a cup of tea in bed on a Saturday. I'd so love and appreciate if you did that for me" rather than just expecting him to be Prince Charming all the time. We.'the only human.

Good luck in your quest!

noyoucannotcomein · 14/04/2020 17:18

Yes, I'm just saying be thankful that lockdown has shown you that you're not compatible, as living together was obviously going to be part of whatever commitment going forward.

AndSheSteppedOnTheBall · 14/04/2020 17:21

I don’t have a “conventional” view of marriage either, and certainly don’t want to be “someone’s wife” (even though I am, but that’s a long story...).

The point is, a gesture of commitment, whatever it happens to be, is not the same as actual commitment or fidelity. If he can’t be faithful outside of a legal marriage, there’s no reason to believe he’s telling the truth about being faithful within one. It’s absurd - either he’s committed or he isn’t. If he’s told you that he’ll be faithful if he’s married or civil partnered (absurd, but that’s by the by), and also won’t make that commitment - you have all the information you need here.

If you’ve no financial reasons to be married and don’t otherwise want to be married, a legal certificate is not going to solve the other problems.

He can either be faithful or he can’t. You can either tolerate it or you can’t.

That’s even outside of you disagreeing about this argument last week.

Your problems are not the gifts and flowers, OP.

jojobar · 14/04/2020 17:36

I didn't want the commitment to make him be faithful to me - I don't believe it is an ongoing thing or likely to be repeated and I have found my trust in him was redeveloping as the months passed. It was important to me that given the length of time we'd been together, and the investment I had made in the relationship in agreeing to try again after he let me down that there was some kind of quid pro quo official commitment between us especially as we can't live together right now (if we could, getting a place together would have probably covered it).

Had he not acted physically as he did in the argument we'd still be together and whilst I would still want that commitment, the absence of it wouldn't be a dealbreaker.

OP posts:
wantmorenow · 14/04/2020 17:50

I had overlooked the elephant in your room.

He was unfaithful - he cheated, he deceived you and disrespected you.

That alone is a complete dealbreaker. I'm in a non-monogamous relationship, very happily, but neither of us would even contemplate such a fundamental breakdown of trust. No coming back from that one in my opinion.

The prodding you is another one - complete disrespect for your point of view and feelings.

It's hard and he may have many great qualities but he is not kind not considerate of you as a person in their own right. Sorry. Cut ties and remember the good bits and the fun you had but there is no future with this man.

AndSheSteppedOnTheBall · 14/04/2020 17:51

Earlier in this thread you said your ex told you he never cheated on his wife because the marriage certificate apparently stopped him. You implied that you therefore wanted a similar commitment from him so you’d know he was faithful to you.

I mean... even putting aside whether or not to believe him about never cheating on his wife, that’s not addressing the issue of his infidelity at all.

Anyway, this thread is getting ridiculous. You started it claiming to be ready to move on, but you don’t seem to be.

If your list of criteria as well as your ex’s behaviour are dealbreakers, then the deal with him is broken.

jojobar · 14/04/2020 18:18

I don't think I've said I'm ready to move on. Knowing a relationship is over, which mine seems to be, is not the same as being ready to move forward into something else. I am trying to take stock and work out whats important.

When he was unfaithful, I wanted to understand why I was the first and only person he's been unfaithful to. His relationship with his XW was poor, far weaker than ours, and he has always said that his love for me was far greater than any feeling he had for her. hence why I asked why he'd not been unfaithful to her.

I wanted a commitment before that, it was something we'd talked about years earlier. I didn't just decide on it because of that. If it was all important I would have ended the relationship for that reason.

To him the infidelity was meaningless, he didn't care a jot for the women involved it was only casual sex. He accepted it hurt me, but he felt hurt too by issues within our relationship and I didn't have the monopoly on hurt feelings etc.

OP posts:
AndSheSteppedOnTheBall · 14/04/2020 19:11

You only have his word for any and all of that. It’s what people who have cheated say.

I agree you’re not ready to move on, but until you analyse what really happened here and why this relationship failed, you’re not going to find what you claimed you were looking for in your OP.

Isadora2007 · 14/04/2020 19:24

You’re absolutely NOT looking for too much at all- I actually copied and pasted your list and checked off all the things that applied to my husband and the only one I couldn’t tick was his ability to earn was and is far higher than mine. When he met me I was a single
Mum of two, what a catch! Indeed I’m being flippant but I believed I was and am a catch and you need to as well so having your standards is a great thing. Stop wondering why he was unfaithful to you rather than other women as it is HIS issue regardless and there is nothing you should have done differently to stop his penis entering another woman’s vagina.
Reflect by all means on the communication you had with each other in order to move on, but expecting kindness and thoughtful gestures is completely okay too- as is asking for them or giving examples. So I told my husband that I dislike expensive bouquets of flowers as I hate the waste but he took that as “you don’t like flowers” so it was okay for me to tel him I do like flowers just reasonably priced ones! Communication is key.

jojobar · 14/04/2020 19:36

I do only have his word for it, however I do believe that he was being truthful, I know the reasons for the divorce and it didn't involve infidelity.

The reason our relationship has ended is because he put his hands on me, and whilst he didn't hurt me, he also failed to understand that because of my history I would be upset by that and require an apology and acknowledgment, which he will not give. That's why we are over. He very clearly didn't want our relationship to end, but he left me no choice when he wouldn't apologise.

Now I could say that's him ignoring me or not realizing what's important but that's a bit of a sweeping generalization and not entirely fair because in other respects he often did, so I can't say he NEVER did.

OP posts:
Nearlyalmost50 · 14/04/2020 19:36

I also don't think your original list was outrageous it just sounded like a normal compatible person to me, plus I wouldn't go out with a weed smoker and infidelity is a deal-breaker for me. I do like overt romantic gestures so would struggle with someone who was very undemonstrative.

I think the point, though, about lists is that they are not that helpful. Once you found a basically not that bad person you jumped at him, even though he wasn't quite right (weed smoking).

OhioOhioOhio · 14/04/2020 19:40

I don't think you are wrong to want those things but really question whether it actually exists.

jojobar · 14/04/2020 19:53

I certainly didn't 'jump' at him.

The weed wasn't something I was aware of until some months in as I've already said. And although it wasn't something I would have chosen, it made me reassess my previously held views on drug use. Men I'd known in the past (who I would never have considered a relationship with) who used drugs were either complete stoners who were smoking all day long and stank like an ashtray, or serious cokeheads who were always off their faces. Both, especially the latter group, were always skint because of spending 100s on coke regularly.

But my Ex didn't spend any more on weed than a very moderate drinker would on alcohol, smoked so infrequently that there was never a smell around him, and it had very little effect on him (again, much like anyone having 1 alcoholic drink). So I realized that my objection to it was more nuanced, I didn't want an alcoholic but I wasn't put off by a man who had 3 or 4 drinks in a week, so what was the difference between that and smoking a small joint occasionally? I didn't feel there was one.

OP posts:
Ragwort · 14/04/2020 19:57

Why are you analysing every comment and action that he made? Just accept that he wasn’t right for you and move on ... embrace your single life, be happy for yourself. You are making yourself look needy and a bit of a drama queen.