Am I over reacting with new guy?

[luvinthesun]

I would really appreciate some advice please as to if I'm behaving completely over the top and going crazy, or if I have a genuine reason to be on my guard here, even though I suspect I do.
I left my ex 2 years ago for various reasons, but one of them being that he was a compulsive liar. He would lie for the most ridiculous of things and it left me unable to trust people in general, although this did improve after 12 months of counselling.

So fast forward 2 years, and I have started dating someone who I care about very much. We were friends for over a year before we got together, and there was never any hint of him being manipulative or a liar in any way. He is soft natured, reliable, supportive, everything I could want in a partner and I could see myself falling for him in a big way.
A couple of things have happened recently though where I'm convinced he's lying to me, and after my previous history with my ex, I'm not sure if I'm jumping on stuff that perhaps other people wouldn't pay the slightest bit of attention too, or if I have genuine reason to have red flags jumping out at me.
So a couple of weeks ago, his daughter told a friend of mine about something that had happened which wasn't common knowledge. I was a little irritated that he had told her, but neither had I asked him to keep quiet about it, I just foolishly assumed he would, but when I asked him if he had talked to his daughter about this incident, he looked nervous and told me that he hadn't.
I felt quite sick as I knew he must have done for his daughter to know, but was more concerned that I felt he had openly lied to me. I talked to him about it later on, and he admitted that he had mentioned me, but had not mentioned the incident that I wanted keeping private. I confessed to him that I was concerned he was lying to me and he told me that he felt really hurt that I didn't trust him, and that me not trusting him was really destructive in our relationship. I left it be as I had a lot going on and didn't really think about it again until the last few days.

The second incident that has got me concerned was a few days ago when we were joking on the phone, and the chat turned to a jokey sexual nature. I said something which hit a raw nerve regarding something his ex had made him feel shit about ( I had no idea when I said it that his ex had upset him about it ) and he got quite defensive. I got annoyed about his defensiveness, and he denied it and told me that I took things to serious and that I was imagining it.
I ended the phone call as I felt gas lighted to be honest, and didn't appreciate him trying to make me feel that I was the problem even though I could see he was embarrassed about his reaction. He did apologise the next day and admit he had been defensive, but it still unnerved me. I know that people do this kind of thing if caught on the spot, so really not sure if I am just over reacting.

I'm pretty sure that he has lied to me again today though. Yesterday, something went wrong with his car which is pretty dangerous but when we were chatting about him getting it to a garage today asap, he didn't seem in any rush. I asked him earlier if he had managed to fit it into a garage, and he told me that he had rang a few up but that they were all shut with it being Good Friday, and he would try tomorrow. I took my dog a walk this morning over an industrial estate and passed 4 and they were all open.
Granted, he lives in a different town, but I can't see it being any different over there. I know it's his own business what he does with his car, it's just the fact that I'm convinced he's lied over something so stupid, rather than just say 'no, I didn't ring any up'.

I know I may well sound insane, and maybe I'm just not ready for a relationship, but I would really appreciate a second opinion here as I'm on the verge of ringing him up and breaking things off, but would kick myself if I'm the issue and I'm over reacting as I had no sense of any untruthfulness behaviour when we were friends

MaeDanvers, we don't have friends in common. My friend is in her 40's and his daughter is in her early 20's. As I said, it was a complete fluke, but sadly, his daughter isn't a nice person

He sounds like a gaslighting liar, get shot!

Coming from someone who has had a very similar experience, you are completely valid for seeing these as red flags, because they are. It is normal for people to lie, but when you experience gas lighting in a damaging way, you're going to see small (almost "normal") gas lighting in a big way. To you it shows he's willing to lie about the smallest of things and turn things round on you - the same crap you had to put up with with your ex but on a smaller scale. But it's these smaller red flags that lead up to them becoming big red flags. Never ignore those flags and always go with your gut. I wish I had.

Yes, that's probably hit the nail on the head. I know that these incidents to most people would be insignificant, but when you've been in a relationship in the past when someone will relentlessly lie for the most stupid and pointless reasons, you end up living a life where you haven't a clue what's real and what's not regarding anything they say, and that can slowly drive you insane. I've just spoken to him and he knows something is wrong, so I'm going to have to speak to him properly tomorrow or end things, as it's not fair on him either as I can tell he's upset.
I'm just feeling pretty stunned at the moment, as friendship wise, he was perfect, and I will most likely lose his friendship too now

OP, i would strongly suggest you trust your gut.

You have given 3 clear examples of your gut screaming at you.

Once, he broke an unspoken confidence...I get this, even if some posters don't...strike 1.

He gaslit you during a conversation and you flipping well know it...strike 2.

He has now lied to you, when it wasn't necessary at all to...strike 3.

Listen to your gut...it's telling you to bin him.

Liste, hear, act.

You have got this OP.

I think you know exactly what you are doing

Good luck

Yeah If I had to take a guess, I genuinely don't believe he is knowingly manipulative or abusive. I know his ex was a nightmare, and he was left a nervous wreck. I think he probably got used to lying to her to try and keep the peace, and now it may have become habit/his default reaction when uncomfortable. I just don't think I can deal with that again, even if he is a good person, and I really do believe he is

Been there. Married the lying test. No infidelity but his endless meaningless lies and gaslighting almost destroyed me. Without basic trust there is no solid foundation for any relationship. Trust your instincts, you are not overreacting, this is as bad as you think, get rid.

Good people don't lie to people as part of their go to response.

Liars take our ability to make informed decisions and choices away from us. We end up always playing cc catch up with the truth. Doubting our own senses. Destroys our ability to be e happy and relaxed. Always looking for outside validation of whatever information we were given. A shit way to live, second guessing our own relationship because we never truly know what's going on.

I think you’ve answered your own question, OP. It’s just not working for you, as defensive lies, even white ones, are a thing you can’t deal with, and it doesn’t matter if anyone feels you’re being unreasonable — it’s your relationship. We all have our sticking points — mine is passivity.

He doesn't have to be abusive for you to finish it. It sounds like maybe you're just not compatible. He's shown he's quite willing to lie to you.

I would also say to listen to your gut - massively. I cannot stand liars anyway, but the type of liar who then insists that it is YOUR lack of trust that is destructive to the relationship? HUGE red flag, and that would have been the end of it for me.

When you are caught lying, the appropriate response is to promise to stop lying in order to re-build trust, not blame the person you lied to for not trusting you!

I don't think it really matters now as I broke things off with him this morning. I feel sick to my stomach right now. He was devastated and cried pretty hard that I wouldn't give things a chance and work through my concerns, and that he was completely in love with me. Even after all that though, my gut is still screaming that he is lying to me so I don't feel great. The hard thing is that I tell the occasional white lie myself, and I admit that...so why can't I accept him doing it?

I would probably avoid telling the truth if it would leave someone really offended, such as if I didn't like someone's new haircut etc, but I feel like his is on a different scale with a whole load of subtle manipulation, even if he doesn't realise it. I just can't believe that I knew him for over a year before this and there was no hint at all of anything like this.

I think if you hadn't had your previous experience, his white lies and defensiveness wouldn't be a major issue and something that should have been solvable. It sounds as though he didn't have a good previous relationship either and has needed to say what he wants his partner to believe, even though it's not true. This doesn't make for a trusting relationship

Posted too soon

I also think you need to work on your own issues more. It must be very hard work for the other person to be walking around on eggshells not knowing if they can say something that may seem trivial to them but a trigger to you.

It sounds as though neither of you are ready to have a relationship with yourselves or other people.

You're spot on. He's manipulating you. How long did you date for? His reaction to you ending it also sounds unusual. Crying inconsolably etc.

I think you have made the right move.

Also, crying and begging? ... ...I've never felt the need to beg someone to give me 'another chance' if they've broke up with me. Because I'm not emotionally unstable and I know my own worth. Nor am I emotionally manipulative. His reaction smacks of something along those lines.

Also, white lies is your deal breaker. And that is perfectly acceptable. I also dated a liar who would lie about everything and here's the thing, it lead me to realise that people who constantly tell white lies for no reason - have no problem lying about the big stuff too. And frequently do. Also, they arent right in the head.

That call about his ex sounded very off too me. I notice abusive sorts tend to like to 'whip the carpet out from under you' when you are happy/comfortable and it sounds like this might have been a case of that.

You did right trust your gut. Block all contact t and dont be talked into seeing him or conversing with him again as he will only weaken your resolve.

OP, come on now..go easy on yourself...tiny white lies to protect a pal from the full truth of a disastrous haircut is a whole different ballpark. You know that. I know that...I was that friend...and I appreciated that my friends were being kind😗....this is not that.

You know it.
Don't you let his drama make you waiver.
You know.
Good on you for knowing and taking action.

We all tell white lies.
I tell them to my husband all the time about him putting on a few pounds.
He lies to me all the time about getting a bit old looking...I'm vain..😂.

We do it. We love each other. We protect each other in a gentle way...

You know this.
Be strong.
Well done for your boundaries 👏👏

He blabbed to his dad, lied to you, and then knowing that you both knew he'd lied about it, he gaslighted you by telling you you were the problem, ruining the relationship with your lack of trust - your lack of trust caused by him being caught red handed lying! He's not trustworthy. He lies rather than telling the truth seemingly pretty often - and it's unlikely you've caught him out every time. I'd knock it on the head tbh, you trust a word he says.

Wantmorenow.... we had only been dating for 6 weeks, so I agree that his reaction was extreme, but then he had had strong feelings for me a long time before we started dating, so maybe not. I cried as well in all fairness, but more over the loss of the friendship. I could never be that emotionally invested in someone after 6 weeks, something else that made me uneasy at times, as he often referred to things he wanted us to do in a few years time and the things he wold sometimes say implied that as far as he was concerned, this relationship was it for him, and he couldn't understand why I was so much more wary and reserved. Another red flag really.

Personally he sounds abusive to me, emotionally, and gaslighting from what you said. Even if he isn't - none of this is ok. End it.

Yeh I think being emotionally invested just 6 weeks in was probably a red flag too.

Are you gonna be ok now? Like, has he accepted that's that? And he doesnt strike tou as the sort that might turn stalkery now right?

Yes, I will be ok. Thank you for asking. I don't think he is the stalker sort at all. He asked if he could come round earlier when we were on the phone but accepted it when I said no because of the CV lockdown.
I do think he will contact me again in the next day or two, but it will be fine I'm sure

At least with the cv lockdown it makes it easier to tell him no. I think if you've said all that needs to be said, don't feel obligated to have another conversation with him. Where he might have had time to think of how to guilt trip you into seeing him/trying again or whatever.

I mean what else is there to say really?

Maybe if you have some of his stuff it might be wise to box that up and drop it off. The lockdown gives you reason enough to leave asap too.

Ok can I just say that gaslighting is abusive I'd leave him over that personally.

Either he did it on purpose or is not emotionally mature enough to deal with problems in a constructive way without making you feel shit and crazy to boot.

I also think people are being a little harsh saying they don't see anything wrong here and that you are basically overreacting. He has obviously lied to you about the daughter and still wont come clean, add on the other incidents including the gaslighting and you have a serious boyfriend problem!

Many red flags! Get out now!

Trust your instinct and do go back to counselling and work more on listening to yourself about these things, you are totally correct that this is fishy!

Why wait around to see if he sorts it out (unlikely as you know from past experience) or get rid, and find a reasonable adult - they exist apparently - to be your partner.

Arrg I'm so so sorry! I didn't finish reading your updates before I got annoyed on your behalf and posted LTB.

I'm really pleased you got out, I'm not surprised he didn't take it well and has tried to come over.

Congratulate yourself for seeing the red flags and not taking them I know you feel awful just now but you will be ok and eventually look back with relief about dodging that bullet!