Too much booze?

[TooManyBottles]

Regular poster, name changed to protect the guilty, blah blah blah.

Dh has always liked a drink, and usually has something like half a bottle of wine three nights a week, plus the odd couple of pints of beer, or a couple of whiskies. I guess his usual consumption would be about 15 - 16 units a week.

Over the past couple of months he has been drinking every night, usually at least half a bottle of wine. So he's drinking more like 20 - 25 units a week. I've suggested (nicely!) that he might consider having a couple of nights off and he agrees, but hasn't actually done so yet.

Apart from his health there's the question of money. We're not broke, but our financial situation changed a few weeks back and we're having to tighten our belts a bit. Nothing too much, nothing to get stressed about, but four bottles of wine a week adds up. I'm having to watch what I spend, and have had to give up my once-a-week latte and muffin, but it seems that the booze doesn't come into that category. He does all the shopping and the wine has almost become a staple.

Putting aside the financial stuff though, would you be worried if your dh was drinking so much? It hasn't affected his behaviour or anything, but it's starting to worry me. How much is too much?

TMB - how did it go?

For the record, I share a bottle of wine with my Dh nearly everyday and agree with Attilla's figures that this is actually 5 units each per day. This puts me waaay over the recommended limit. I don't think I'm a heavy drinker or dependent. In fact, most people I know do this. You hoped people would say this isn't much so there you go!

But you are clearly worried and only you know your dh to decide if it's a problem so I'm in no way trying to trivialise it.
I think there are two elements to this: the psychological and the health. My dh gets his liver function tested every year and is always normal which I find quite alarming given that he IS a heavy drinker.

Only you know about the dependency side of things with your dh. I understand that you are worried but I think you are worrying about what you think might happen in the future if his drinking continues to increase as opposed to his current behaviour?

Soory WWb - crossed posts.
At least you can talk to him about it. See how he goes this week with a couple of dry nights...Good luck

TMB is me, strawberry - I posted a few minutes ago.

I'm not too worried about under-reporting, Pan. He only drinks in the evenings, and rarely goes out - so unless he's working away I see most of what he's drinking. I am confident that he's not drinking during the day.

There's no-one else really who I could bring into it. His mother is a drinker too and wouldn't see the harm, and my family have enough on their plates with my sister's problems.

Strawberry - I guess it is the future I'm more worried about, having seen the way a few innocuous drinks turned into such a problem for my sister.

His future, my future, our daughter's future.

But for the majority of people it doesn't escalate. I am a worrier and spend loads of time worrying about things which may never happen so I understand your concern. I only hope your fears don't prove to be right long term.

Because the govt recommended limits are not based on science. I drink about 25 units per week. I am not dependent (no alcohol when TTC or pg for example). I am fit and healthy and my GP says no problem. I feel like I am trying to defend myself now but this is what I understand of the health concerns and also how I feel.

Maybe so, strawberry.

I think I said yesterday that it's as much about the change in his drinking as it is the amount - he has always liked a drink, but drinking every night is new, as is the fact that he doesn't seem serious about agreeing to limit it. Even when I raised my concerns last night, he had to finish the bottle he had started the night before - there were three glasses left in it.

Oh, I don't know. I guess I'll have to wait and see what he does over the next couple of nights.

WWB

Re your comment:-
"I spoke to him last night and he agreed (again) that he's probably drinking too much, and although he accepts that I'm worried he denies there's anything to be worried about. I have asked him to have at least two nights a week where he doesn't drink at all, and to cut down a bit on the nights he does have a drink. He agreed. And then said that he would just finish the bottle he'd started the night before first".

I'd be even more concerned now after this conversation you've had with him.

What did he say about him having two alcohol free nights a week?. I would put money on it now he will be unable to do this, he won't last that long.

You are right to be concerned; the fact that he chose to finish the remains of the wine bottle after your converation is particularly of note. One could argue that his primary relationship is now drink.

If you were to empty all the bottles how do you think he would feel?. Would he just go out and get more?. Would he become angry and or upset?

I would have a chat with Al-anon if you have not already done so. You need outside support and all calls to them remain confidential.

WWB

Re your comment:-
"His mother is a drinker too and wouldn't see the harm, and my family have enough on their plates with my sister's problems".

I was also wondering if any members of his family drank or still drink heavily. This to me is another possible sign. His mother would certainly "not see the harm"; she is likely to be in denial of her drink problem as well.

Please speak with Al-anon.

Attila, when I asked him to have two alcohol-free nights a week, he said he would. He seemed quite happy to agree - both that he should do it, and that he would. I really hope he can, and before he decided he was going to finish that bottle I would have said that he probably would be able to. Now I don't know.

I was shocked that he felt the need to finish the bottle - he would probably say that it wouldn't keep and he didn't want to waste it, but I could have frozen it to cook with.

I don't know what he would do if I emptied all the booze away. We don't have any wine in the house now so if he wants some more he has to buy it ... God, I hope he doesn't buy any more today.

I think I have to see what he does over the next few days. Whether he brings any more in, whether he doesn't drink tonight, how long it is before he buys more wine. I don't want to believe that his primary relationship is now with the drink based on last night, I think I need to let him prove over the next few days whether he is able to go without it.

Am not quite ready to admit that I need Al-Anon yet.

His mother drinks more than she should, and has done for as long as I can remember. Again, she doesn't get drunk or have hangovers, but the only liquid she drinks in the evenings is alcohol, and she drinks it every night. She will have sherry before her meal, a couple of glasses of wine with her meal, maybe a glass of whisky afterwards. It's her "treat".

Jeez ... I really hope it's not a case of like mother, like son.

Hi WWB

How would you feel if he brings wine home today?.

I think you are somewhat in shock that after talking to you he continued to finish the wine left in the previously opened bottle. I think you are having a whole gamut of emotions not least of all a sense of shame which I would have to say is totally misplaced on your part.

Okay its Friday tomorrow; make your own notes over the weekend and next week as to how much he drinks and over how long a period of time.
Note his behaviours.

I would say that any denial on your part as to the extent of any drink problem will do you no favours ultimately. You cannot save him from a drink problem and ultimately you cannot help him (he has to want his own self) but you can help YOU. Al-anon is a good place to start for you.

With best wishes

Attila x

His Mother has drunk for so long that her tolerance to the alcohol has increased markedly. Hence no immediate effects like hangovers or drunkenness.

Here's a question for you - what's her memory like?. I ask this as excessive long term consumption of alcohol has likely affected her in other areas.

If he brings wine home today I will be seriously pissed off, and he knows that.

I'm not really in denial, I don't think; I am just confused and it's all a bit of a whirl at the moment. I also think I need to give him a bit more time to judge how much he drinks now that we have spoken about it again - I know that I can't save him from a drink problem but he deserves the chance to prove to us both that he can cut down and that it isn't the problem that it might seem. Is that denial? I don't know. I can't condemn him as an alcoholic yet until he's proved that he isn't one - if that makes sense.

MIL's memory is fine. She has gout (probably too much booze!) but otherwise is in good health.

It is a sticky situation for you. FWIW I don't think that wanting to finish an open bottle is such a terrible sign: I know you don't drink but if you were planning to give up an indulgence (smoking, sweeties, whatever) you'd probably feel psychologically more prepared to do so if you finished off what you had in the house.
Give the chap a chance over the next couple of nights. You've told him how you feel, try to avoid nagging about it for two or three days. If a person is trying to change their habits then few things are more counterproductive than having someone keep on and on about it.

Of course, if there's no change in his behaviour after a few days then you will need to raise the subject again and work out a strategy. Though I am one of the ones who doesn't think his drining sounds ata problem level yet though I can understand why you, as both a non-drinker and someone who has had to deal with alchoholics, find it worrying.

Just joined. Really think you are making a mountain out of all this. eally sounds like just dh way of relaxing hard day, children gone to bed etc. I think if you continue maybe he will start going out for his after work drink instead, so that he doesn't get pestered about his drinking every nite.

When I posted on another thread for advice about dh's drinking, I found Attila's advice intimidating and scary. No offence to you Attila, but as other posters say, many many people do manage to drink moderately without it becoming an emergency requiring professional intervention.

I agree that families are a huge influence though. I hate that people whose parents drink heavily think it's normal to do it. My dh's parents drink wine from lunch time till bed time most days. Both have heart problems, esp FIL who's been told to cut down but hasn't. Because they are middle class wine drinkers it's seen as acceptable, they are 'bon viveurs' or party types. Every Xmas my dh receives a CRATE of wine as his present as they can't think what else to get him.

At school dh ran a booze smuggling business and once had his stomach pumped while underage. All laughed off by his family.

My dh has taken on these 'alcohol is fun and relaxing' values. I'm trying not to pass them to our children. Sorry for hi-jack.

I empathise totally. There is no benchmark etc for drinking levels, so hence a bit of confusion...is it too much, isn't it?? It is though a serious habit you describe though, no doubt.

jooleybee - I don't know what experience you have of this sort of thing, but your post reads like something a 'drinker' would say in defence of their habit. "Relaxing" need not involve putting an addictive poison down one's throat. And to excess. IMHO and experience.

only skimming thread now because dd2 is pouring milk into a box

but you have to finish the bottle within a day or two or it will go off, I don't see that this was contradictory to your dh's discussion with you at all - the telling thing would be when he opens the next one imo

it would never occur to me to freeze wine for cooking even if I was going to have a night off

you say you don't drink and this to me is where it is at it's most obvious

also agree with strawberry re units - I did an online course called Down Your Drink a couple of years ago when I felt to be becoming increasingly dependent on alcohol after dd's cerebral palsy diagnosis

and the recommended figures that the programme was comfortable with for long-term drinking were indeed higher than the govt - and it was prepared by a health agency

at rogue apostrophe

He's not being "pestered" every night, jooleybee. I have spoken to him twice in two months about it. Both times he has agreed that he ought to cut down. His drinking habits have changed, he is drinking pretty heavily, it is affecting him in the evenings, I am worried. We have been together for 17 years; I know his habits well enough by now to know that something has changed. I am talking about it here for some support, and to try and make some sense of it myself - I'm not some nagging harridan who is about to drive my husband to drink.

I am trying to put myself in his position, madamez, and I think you're right that if I were to go on a diet, I would probably want to eat all the biscuits in the house first! I will see how we go for the next few days.

Thank you for your support x

Curiouscat

I hope you succeed with regards to your children where your husbands family patently failed.

I am sorry you found my advice intimidating and scary but alcoholism as a problem in it's many guises is intimidating and scary along with no fun at all to witness. That's why my advice is written as it is. Denial is not going to help anyone.

Its not just the drinker who is affected; alcoholism is a family disease and such people often get on and off the merry go round of denial. At least you've agreed that this is often (though not always) learnt from families.

We have half bottles of wine. Pathetic but safer and it works for us.

WWB

I hope you get to the bottom as to why his drinking habits have changed as they have. If he can be completely honest with you as to why he has started to drink more heavily then you may both get somewhere.

I hope he does not bring any wine home this evening and also manages to have some alcohol free days in the coming week.

If he continues though as he has done say thoroughout the next month or so please get support for your own self from one of the organisations I've posted up.