How do court orders involving children work in reality?

[CatsandRoses]

My partner has a child (age 8) with his ex. They split up 7 years ago and were never married. Since splitting, they have split the child's time 50-50 between homes, one week at mums, one week at dads. My partner pays more than his ex would get through the CMS and is happy to continue to do so as his ex is a low earner.

I met my partner two years ago, and I get on well with his child. Since arriving on the scene, his ex's behavior towards me has been challenging. She has spread rumors about me and my partner to his friends and family (she regularly speaks to his mum). At handover time, she always says that she needs to speak to partner urgently and will then draw out a long story about something trivial. I have never risen to this behavior. Both myself and my partner find her very childish and quite pathetic. However, we don't want to negatively influence the child, so we hold our tongues, and smile and nod.

This lockdown situation has frustrated us all. She started an argument with my partner on the doorstep the other day. She claimed that the tyres on my car are flat and that the car is unsafe to drive. She said that she doesn't want her child in my car and will phone the police if I do. We weren't planning on driving anywhere anyway, so my partner just said fine.

However, me and my partner have now decided that we want this person out of our lives. We don't want to have to see her anymore, and we are looking at how we can realistically achieve this. We are looking at getting a court order, which we think would encourage her to behave a bit less immaturely?

Does anyone have any advice?

I really wouldn't go to court over this. This is relatively minor annoyance stuff - unless she's stopping your partner seeing the child then it seems to me an expensive and aggressive unnecessary move.

What on earth kind of court order do you think you can get??
Court orders are serious, for people who cannot make arrangements between them without animosity or abuse. You are finding this woman annoying. Is she stopping contact? Is she harassing you? FGS.

What we want is for this woman to leave us alone. I can't take ten more years of this bullshit. I want her out of my life today.

My partner has tried to suggest to her that any discussion regarding the child takes place over Whatsapp (so less room for drama) rather than at the door (which usually ends in pointless arguing between partner and his ex). She starts an argument 80% of the time my partner sees her.

Ideally, we want to be able to drop the child off and leave, or vice versa. We don't want any verbal communication with her at all. I feel that a court order could achieve this? If not, what would you suggest? I'm open to other resolutions.

As a family barrister, I have to tell you... you may want her out of your lives, but that’s not going to happen. Your DP and her share a child. They will always, ALWAYS have involvement to some degree: parent’s evening, deciding what secondary school to choose, negotiating hobbies and friendships and first relationships and pocket money and holidays and weekend jobs...
There is simply no way you can just not see her entirely, and even if you could, would that be best for your DP’s child? To see their parents not even willing to spend time in the same room together or speak to one another? I suspect not.
If you’d rather that contact be through WhatsApp or an app (My Family Wizard is the one the courts usually recommend), then say so, and suggest it would be more helpful to have things in writing/all in one place/easy to find. If arguments are really getting out of hand, then suggest mediation. But it would be extremely unwise to go to court over this: children cases are always long, emotionally difficult, and very expensive. You’d be far better leaving things be.

Your dp can put in those boundaries himself and stop engaging with her. Involving the courts isn't in anyone's interests.

The is a risk your partner would lose more than he would gain by court.

When the ex makes comments your partner has a choice how to react. He doesn't have to engage in an argument. Also don't dismiss all of her complaints because she may have some valid points.

Your partner needs to grey rock and don't react. No court order will make her go away as she is the child's mum.

Sorry, to be clear, my partner has asked her many times to communicate with him solely through WhatsApp. He doesn't want the child to see them arguing. Plus, he wants a clear record of all communication with her.

I do tell him not to engage in conversation. I advise him to say "thank you. Goodbye" and close the door when she drops the child off. However, she usually finds an excuse to come in for a few minutes. Dp struggles to say no when the child is there, so he lets her.

I’m afraid that court proceedings are still very unlikely to be the best way forward. Your DP needs to be firmer with her.

Court isn't a replacement for backbone.

This ^^

I want her out of my life today.

The only way to do that is for you to move out.

If your partner doesnt want an argument, why doesnt he just stop arguing with her? It takes two to make an argument, so if he stops engaging with her, there wont be any arguing.

A court order will not be able to achieve what you want. You can't get her out of your life unless you leave your DP. He is the one who needs to set boundaries with her.

Any proceedings regarding their child would be governed by the Child Arrangements Programme - the whole ethos of this statutory instrument is to encourage co-parenting and positive communication for the child's benefit. Dissolving the parental relationship is the absolute opposite of what the court process aims to achieve.

If you do decide to go ahead you can expect to attend a mediation information and assessment meeting first, you will have input from Cafcass who in the absence of any safeguarding issues will recommend to court that your partner and his ex work together, they may even be sent on a separated parents course (separately) and expected to draft a parenting plan together.

A more sensible first step would be to try mediation; to specifically hammer out what handovers should look like, how communication can managed sensibly etc. Simply trying to cut her out is not the answer.

How come they managed to coparent for 5 years? And to go from that to taking her to court. Oh dear. Imagine if you were that child. I'm sure it would be great if she just conveniently disappeared but we're in the real world. He co-parented for 5 years, what's changed?

You can not see her again - just leave it to your partner.

Catsandroses you seem really insensitive to this women’s position. I’m sure ending whatever she had with your man was painful to her and to see him with another women is even more so, you don’t think for a second that she’s fighting with him because she is feeling hurt and angry, think you should butt out and leave contact between the two of them it’s got nothing to do with you. She has more right to be in his face then you do she’s the mother of his child and by saying goodbye and slamming the door in her face isn’t teaching his child how to respect a women rather that it’s ok to treat a women badly. I’d tell your man to treat the mother of his child with abit more respect and maybe then she will turn friendly

Catsandroses this women not only has lost spending all her time with her child because you take her child for a whole week but she has lost her family unit so I’d be abit more respectful if I were you might be you in a few years with another women at the door. You don’t understand this women’s pain do just leave her alone be more respectful and leave your partner to it

In her shoes shoes would have kept the child all the time dumped the both of you. Hope at some point he says goodbye and slams the door in your face

The child's old enough to walk to the door so why is she coming in and causing conflict?
I would be asking her to formally agree to use WhatsApp's or does she want to be going to mediation and putting it into an agreement that whatsapp and emails for any parental arrangements or discussions.
For you I would be staying away and out of it while you are struggling.
I disagree with the courts and lawyers who say we all must get on, the reality is it is not always possible nor healthy to tolerate the games.
No matter if you go to medication or court some people thrive at the game they play towards a ex partner.
The threat of the car, use it and let her call the police it begins a record of her behaviour I would close the door if she started to have a go at you or your partner too.
Why is she going into your house?
I would have a recording of the arguing might help when and if your partner goes to mediation. Surprise the mediator and her and play it!
I have an arrangement done through mediation and this does not stop the gossip, slander.
Why do not actually care what a person says, yes it is Difficult and challenging!
I would suggest mediation without all of you involved with the parents only.
No Mediation or court guarantees it will stop
I would be putting in boundaries and recorded her!
We all deserve to live in peace not other people's drama.

No court will even entertain you!

The parents are already successfully sharing 50/50 contact for an established period of time. That what courts deal with. They don’t deal with “Make her stop talking to my boyfriend and saying silly things” that court order simply does not exist. The court will not order her to stop speaking to her co parent. So get that right out of your silly head.

You are being ridiculous. Unless she starts harassing you or threatening you (in which case it’s the police for a restraining order) then you are going to have find a way to rise above and ignore her.

I bet your “partner” was more than happy to have a conversation with the mother of his child before you came along and decided it has to stop. You’d be laughed out of court.

I think better boundaries are needed rather than the law. Why is your partner even entertaining these doorstep arguments? Smile sweetly and shut the door.

I'm sorry but based on what you have said it's you that's coming across badly.
You can't just never speak to the mother again in person.
You don't need to be on the doorstep at collection and drop off and your husband just needs to not engage in the argument.
The child doesn't need to be hearing parents arguing but to cut off contact is only going to make things worse for the child.
Sounds like you all need to grow up.

Agree with Sparky87