How to have a relationship with SIL when I can never voice my opinion?

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Her DS runs rings around her, plays her and her DH like a fiddle, always has done since tiny, the rest of the family knows it but never says anything. He is constantly causing them upset and breaking rules and she always tells me of the latest thing he has done and then somehow it ends with sympathy for him, telling everyone how lovely he is really and making excuses for him.

I have lost count of the amount of times I have heard him told he can't have something/do something and then be given in to. I then get the long explanation of why he misbehaved and/or how tough life is for him (it isn't). As long as I just listen and nod and agree with everything she says we get along fine, but if I try and suggest she has been too soft on him she gets upset and cross and says its easy for others to think they would have handled it better. I then end up feeling bad for having upset her.

I am not trying to make out I'm the perfect mum but it is glaringly obvious to everyone that he gets away with murder. I dont want to go into too much detail in case I identify her or me but she herself has admitted her is the biggest cause of stress in her marriage (and life it seems). It does annoy me because he has so many privileges that other children don't have and also I do feel for her and hate to see her so upset at his latest transgression.

She seems to genuinely want to be close to me but this isn't my idea of close. It's up to her how she raises her kid but my issue is that I just can't have a relationship with someone where I am not allowed to say what I really think. It feels dishonest and frustrates the hell out of me.

Sorry, that should read "he" is the biggest cause of stress...

Don't understand why you feel you are not "allowed" to say what you really think.

PS It's not just frustrating, it leaves ME feeling upset too because she has got cross and snapped at me. It ruined my day today and frequently has left me feeling bad for days.

Because SIL gets defensive and upset.

Humphrey, because she doesn't want to hear it. She only wants to hear that her DS is a lovely boy, really. So she snaps at me, starts crying or goes quiet when I say anything to the contrary or (more importantly) that it I would have done it differently, because that suggests that it is her parenting that has created the problem child. Which, I am sorry, but I think it largely is.

The conversations are always the same. It's a bit like a battered wife who keeps getting hit and then trying to persuade everyone how lovely her DH is really, but that he is just depressed and misunderstood.

i'd probably just explode one day, tell her what i think, then give her space to get over it. not the best solution i'm sure...

Yes, Nab3, that's right.

The fact that she gets upset doesn't mean that you're not allowed to say what you think.

It means that she doesn't deal well with it when someone tells her the truth.

So tell her that you are happy to listen to her , but she must accept that a discussion sometimes has more than one point of view.

Tell her that you have her best interests at heart, and sometimes she may hear some home truths that she finds hard to accept.

That is what a friendship is.

If she can't accept it, then there is no point losing sleep over it, tbh.

Hi Pages! Was just rolling my eyes looking at title thinking...'why do people put up with anything from relatives'

So you like her...good start...

Hmmm...okay...rule her ds out as a conversation you two can have. Words to use escape me at the moment...I'm sure you can think of something tactful

Does she accept your opinions on other matters?

Can see how this upsets you tho

Well, has she asked for your opinion, when she's confided in you, or is she just letting off steam?

Because there's a world of difference between you suddenly turning to her and saying "I think you ought to do...." and her actually asking for your opinion and then getting huffy when you give it.

If she hasn't asked for your opinion, then I think you don't get to say how you feel - except if her son is directly affecting you - eg bullying your child, breaking your things - then you have the right to say that you do not find those things acceptable nd ask her to ensure that her son does not do ......in your house/to your child, etc.

If she's asked for your advice and then got cross, maybe you are coming across critical. Change how you put things.

Mytwopenceworth, I'd take it another way. Pages (I'm guessing here!) is tired of listening to a problem that will never be solved because the mother won't deal with the issue. Instead she keeps offloading onto Pages/anyone who will listen.

Its depressing listening to same problem over and over again from someone when the don't actually want any help.

And yes I do agree to empathy to friends...but not when they want to bend my ear about an issue that won't ever be resolved.

BTW...I have been at the other end of this issue...I spoke non stop about my mother issues to a mate for about 2 years...in the end she got blunt with me and I took the hint and have not discussed it for another 2 years! Still mates. I just understand that its not her issue and how boring/frustrating it must be for her to listen to it!

ally and mtpw raise interesting points...

If anyone ever asks you your opinion on their parenting, the only acceptable answer is "Yes you are perfect and so is you dc."

Failing that, you may get away with "Mmmm" or "Well, hard to say when it isn't your child" or the catch all "I don't know."

If you're sick of hearing the ranting, try changing the subject asap and, like Ally's pal, tell her gently you've heard enough.

The thing about some people asking your opinion is that they really want you to quote their opinion. Very often "Tell me what you think" means "tell me I'm right." See most AIBU threads - who was it who said it should be renamed 'Validate me, I'm needy?'

And if she isn't actively asking your opinion, fgs don't voice it. Sounds like she knows things aren't great but can't cope with the fact.

Good luck.

I take your point twopenceworth. She doesn't actually ask for my opinion, and I used to always remain silent. But I
don't think I can keep having these one way conversations. It is more than letting off steam, she is trying to convince me of something that I am not convinced about, nor is anyone else. Nobody can tell her what they really think so everyone else gets round it by talking about her DS behind her back. I am certain she knows that people do this, she knows her DS is the subject of much negative discussion, she sees how everyone goes quiet when she starts to talk about him and that just makes her try even harder to persuade people. She therefore spends all her time avoiding a proper conversation about it and trying to convince everyone of how lovely he is really. It feels dishonest and circular and ridiculous. My friends tell me things I don't always want to hear, I would hate it if they didn't.

Ally, it's a funny relationship. I do care about her, she has been very supportive of me in many ways and I genuinely feel for her when she is upset. However, she does spend a lot of time talking and very little time actually listening to anything I (or others) have to say, and although on occasions we do connect well I mentioned on the other thread how I have always felt shortchanged after having spent any time with her and that the relationship I have had with her has been punctuated throughout by upsets, whereby if I don't reflectback to her the image of herself she wants to see she gets upset with me.

DH is so frustrated by her that he can hardly bring himself to pick up the phone when she calls. I constantly vaciliate from avoiding her to getting close to then having another fall out to then getting drawn back in again. It feels like a game and I don't want to play any more.

Hmm. It sounds as if you and she want a different sort of relationship. Personally I'm not always convinced that telling people your deepest and most critical feelings makes for a good relationship but everyone has their own idea of friendship.

Crumbs.

She sounds exhausting, but I feel a bit sorry for her. Must be horrible when nobody has much good to say about your kid, more so when you suspect it's your own fault.

Giving you a hard time when you don't agree with her doesn't make her sound like too much fun - that's approaching bullying imo. How friendly/close do you want to be?

She does sound like she's in denial. One thing though, are you absolutely sure he doesn't have sn of any sort?

Perhaps she is using you as a sounding board and really does wnant you to be honest. I know that sounds strange because she gets upset, but she obviously knows what people are thinking. Maybe she knows that you will be honest and is looking for reassurance. I think I would try telling her the truth one day. Let her get upset, because I think she will eventually come around to see that you were right and perhaps she needs to try a new parenting technique. Is she maybe (reaching here) screaming out for some direction???

I mean, perhaps she doesn't know what to do, or knows but doesn't know how to go about it?

Telling something they handled a situation with their child badly is asking for upset.

If I told my friend, sister that I had given in after saying NO I would expect to hear WHY??? You know that only teaches them they can always have what they want etc, etc.
I wonder why she bothers to tell everyone and then justify herself if she isn't somehow asking for something more.

Tis just a thought and could be completely wrong obv, but why does she bother. I would feel you were all letting me down mightily if you were my family, and you didn't tell me to stop being a spineless wonder and start being a stricter parent or I'd end up with a brat, and incidentally, that is exactly what my family, esp my mum would tell me.

Friend or sister is one thing. Sister in law is a much trickier relationship to handle. It lacks the element of choice (friend) and long knowledge sister).

That is a good point, I suppose for pages it's one thing, but why are the rest of her family turning a blind eye. Why not just get it out and let her deal with it then they can help her and move on. Or at the very least she wil stop going on about it.

I don't see any evidence (from the posts) of anyone wanting to help. It sounds as if the family just want to give their opinion and not have the sister in law get upset. Asking too much I fear.

Guess they'd better practice nodding a lot then eh???

Tricky Pages...game playing? Who is victim, persecutor, rescuer?

I can see how hard it must be not to be drawn into another family with gameplaying issues ie talking to anyone but the person they have an issue with.

Your trying to get around it by being honest with her. Honesty is good in certain situations, maybe not this one. But I see your reasoning for doing it...anything to cut to the chase and avoid being drawn into the backstabbing!

I would go with your gutfeeling...(not a very nice word that...never typed it before now...). You feel shortchanged. She's a 'taker' then. And your giving most of the time? Listen to your dh too...why does he avoid even a phonecall from her? I'm also thinking that she is like someone else in your family...you seem to be drawn to her (wanting to get close to her) but then backing off. Ring any bells about any relatives? We tend to be drawn back into relationships we are comfortable with, rather than picking healthy one's.

All very interesting points. Ally you know me so well! I think I already realised that my SIL and I had similar family issues/patterns. I always end up the persecutor and she the victim - now where has that happened before?!!

She IS exhausting, I do end up feeling drained by her. But I do feel sorry for her too. I think Bandofmothers you may be right that she seeks closeness and tells me stuff almost because she knows I won't just nod and change the subject which is what the rest of the family do. DH btw is not a very tolerant person and just can't be bothered with her issues.

It is interesting when you ask NKF what sort of relationship I want with her because it is she that always seems to want us to be close and "like sisters" as she said once. I can happily practice my nodding and stock replies as long as I keep her at arms length. I think this is what I would prefer to do as I do feel that I am not getting much out of the relationship.

It has helped so much to put this all into words, and to get some different viewpoints. LOL at the "I'm needy, validate me" - DH says that's what I go on mumsnet for!!

Btw I don't think her DS has SN. It did cross my mind at one time but it is the family dynamic and lack of boundaries imo that is directly reponsible.