Tying myself in knots. Sexless marriage but I love him.

[AngryFeminist]

I haven't got this out to anyone and would really appreciate some advice.

DH and I have been married 5 years and have a 3.5 year old. We haven't had sex since before he was born. Initially this was mainly down to a toxic combo of sleep deprivation, his work being incredibly stressful, me having postpartum psychosis (only got really sorted after a year) and this impacting on his mental health. Things were incredibly strained for a good 2 years and I seriously considered ending it; in fact I asked him if he wanted to stay together and he said he didn't know. Throughout this all though, we had very open channels of communication and have never stopped loving each other even when we didn't like each other. When we had that conversation we held each other and cried.

After this, we moved to a new city, I went back to work and he became a sahd. This improved things massively and we are both much happier in our roles. We are still very affectionate, very close and say we love each other every day. We work very well as co-parents and are emotionally supportive of each other. Our values, morals, politics, general worldview are matched. For me, this is the foundational stuff but there is still no sex an this attitude to it leaves me in limbo. He says he just has no sex drive and is very avoidant of doing anything proactive to get it back: I've suggested counselling, tried to carve out date time, said we should just get naked together more often and get used to being intimate (no need to jump straight into sex) but still...he takes zero initiative and gets embarrassed when we try which leaves me feeling humiliated. I've tried talking to him calmly so many times, I've ugly-cried, I've said I don't know how long I can go on like this. Still nothing, other than 'give me time'. Part of me wonders whether I'm being unfair because we never get time to ourselves really as no family nearby (and hardly likely now in any case what with the lockdown!)

I don't want to break up, or to open the marriage: what I want is a sexual relationship with him. I love him. But he honestly seems so asexual now that I think I've given up. I've forgotten what being properly kissed or grabbed hold of or touched sensuality feels like...except sometimes I remember and want to cry, and feel like I can't keep repressing this much longer. There is a colleague at work with whom I have serious sexual chemistry. Nothing would ever happen, but when I'm with him it reminds me that there is this whole side of me that is shelved and gathering dust. Perhaps the only solution is to talk about an open marriage in some form, but I also don't want/can't so sex without an emotional connection...such a mess.

Breaking up would be awful. Not just because it's not what either of us wants, but he's from another country and we have planned to move there. He wants to go home and I don't want him to be tied to this country that he's not happy in; I'd be happy in his country (lived there before, have friends there, speak the language, great for kids and great standard of living).

Tl;dr: sexless marriage but we love each other, don't want to break up, is there a way forward?!

@otterhound what a profoundly unkind thing to say to someone. Please remember that there are real people behind these posts!

As others have said, don't move to his country if you split you may not be able to leave with your child and could have residency and employment issues. Be very careful.

Your H could have deep seated issues around sex, is he from a religious background (perhaps witha madonna/whore type issues), unresolved early trauma etc.

The main thing for me is that he is unwilling to even try to resolve the issue, see a therapist, go slowly, try gentle massage or a few kisses to very gradually work on things BUT he is not prepared to do any of this to please you. He seems unwilling to acknowledge that you have sexual desires and longings and to be prepared to be open and explore what is wrong. Perhaps he is lying and just doesn't fancy you anymore but doesn't want to lose his comfy nest and family. He is putting what he wants above what you might want to work towards.

I suspect that it will chip away at you until your love and respect for him dies a fraction at a time until you might perhaps dislike and resent him for having to deny the sexual element of your being.

If you are going to split, get some proper legal advice first on your own (unknown to him). As he is the sahd, he may be seen as the primary carer and given main custody of your dc. You might want to try to change your sharing of duties to counter that.

From what you say I don't think an open marriage would work for you as you say want sex with an emotional connection and that will threaten things with your H.

I'm sorry you're going through this and I can relate. As you say upthread , with writing it down and hearing the answers and thinking about it comes the sad but impossible-to-ignore realisation that this IS a big problem. I've been where you were and leaving was unthinkable until one day it was thinkable and I did it.

Actually in my case the lack of sex/ desire wasn't the main problem, it was a lesser one of two issues, but once I left I gave myself permission to admit to myself what a huge problem it had been. It has been the thing that has left the biggest trace on me - the lost years, my eroded sense of being a "normal", red- blooded, fanciable woman with desires and a desire to have a sex life. I might never get that back although even if I never meet anyone again, I don't regret leaving. It is a lonely place to be.

You only have one life. I'm sorry to say that it doesn't sound like it will improve. As others have said, the lack of will on his part to get help is telling. He doesn't want to. It's not a priority for him.

I'm not sure what to advise about the countries thing. I can see the problem.

Are you sure he’s not just touched out? Are you doing your share of the housework? Were you giving him time to himself (before Corvid19)?

Sorry to be flippant, but these are ALWAYS asked where a bloke complains about his SAH partner’s sex drive, so they’re obviously important questions to ask...

@AngryFeminist

although he has next to no libido he is still sexually attracted to me but just needs more time;

I think he is kidding himself and definitely you. I think it is difficult to be sexually attracted to you if he has no libido.

And clearly this is not just something new. I would work on the basis he is not sexually attracted to you (stop worrying about the reason) and decide what you can and can't live with and decide.

What I do know is that there is no way I could remain in a relationship with a man who was not wanting to have sex with me, unless it was a short term medical issue.

What you will look back on if you split, at some point in the future you will be with someone that does find you attractive and wants to do things with you in bed that will make you feel fulfilled and satisfied, giving your relationship the intimacy you don't have now

I don't think your relationship has any future and it may be sad but don't live like it. There are loads of posts on here which demonstrate it gets worse not better

I know a couple who have been together a long time.
He isn't attracted to her any more and they don't have any kind of physical relationship due to this. She misses it and the relationship she thought they had. She sees his face when he is attracted to other women and it hurts.
But she generally has a good life, they have a good family and friends network and lifestyle. She isn't going to walk away now.
Meanwhile he just isn't attracted her and feels unhappy. He has in the past kissed a few people and is now into a 2 year affair with someone else. Everyone in that scenario is unhappy. Don't be in that scenario.

Please don't stay in this situation, OP. It will be hard at first to extricate yourself. But you'll have a future to look forward to if you do.

Thanks for the replies everyone. To answer a few specifics:

@otterhound the rest of the relationship is there, that's the point - we're very close emotionally, great co parents and share values and worldview. But without any intimacy at all - literally not even being kissed beyond a peck on the lips - that is a close friendship, not a romantic relationship.

@Sapatsea he is not religious at all and no issues with the madonna/whore complex. I am, as username suggests, very involved in feminism and he has always been an ally in that respect too.

@JungleDeets this stuck a chord and is basically one of the things I said to him last night: the lost years, my eroded sense of being a "normal", red- blooded, fanciable woman with desires and a desire to have a sex life. Because of being rejected so much - often humiliatingly - I've sort of internalised that I'm stupid or childish or selfish for needing to have a sex life.

@Paterpower I agree these are good questions to ask. I get up with our son and do breakfast; also do tea bath and bed. Our son was at nursery 4 afternoons a week pre covid, we share weekend lie ins and I take our son out for time just he and I while DH gets a sleep. We have now managed to split housework equally after me doing the bulk of it. So as time to himself/being touched out/sharing of responsibilities goes, I think we've done OK.

We spoke last night and it was just really sad. I said I was at a point now where I had stopped seeing him sexually, because he had stopped showing up to the relationship sexually. That I'd said for a long time I was scared of this point coming, and it had.

He wants to try and carry on, and said the marriage wouldn't survive being open. He said he'd work on things from his side and was basically talking like we had decided to work on it and make it better. Then he properly kissed me and was like - see! We can do it! I felt so confused and actually a bit angry about this - like it took me getting to this point for him to actually make some effort at being proactive and doing things I had been literally begging for and humiliating myself in the process. I had to stand my ground and keep saying that I am at a place where I can't see him in the same way and this can't just be a sticking-plaster conversation and then back to business as usual, as it has been. That it has been 4 years of me desperately trying to make things work and him burying his head in the sand, so how can I believe he'll change now? Actions speak louder than words etc. etc.

So I don't know where this goes from now really. If he is sincere in trying to make it work, it is going to mean a long and ongoing conversation and him making serious changes to his behaviour, but most importantly it means him being honest about where he is really at. One of the things I tried to make really clear was that if, as I have been pretty convinced is the case, he just doesn't want or can't have a sexual relationship then that is actually ok. It just means we have to work out where we go from there rather than flogging a dead horse.

Being here. I won't linger long with lots of words. All I will say is that your relationship as lovers is over. If you stay you will grow bitter and your confidence will sink. Don't even try an 'open' relationship - this is just slow divorce (been there).

I would like to also say this from experience: He knows exactly what the issue is (gay, porn, no attraction, contempt, passive aggression - whatever) but he knows if he is upfront the relationship will end and he doesn't want that because of all the turmoil and upset - he would rather you suffered and put up with. This means he has no respect for you really - as a separate entity deserving of a life of your own.

He doesn't really care about your suffering - he doesn't. He's saying what you want to hear (been here as well), don't be fooled by the tears - they don't mean what you think they mean. If he is a passive aggressive then I'm afraid that on some un-conscience level, he wants to hurts you - however - never think you can cure a passive aggressive man.

Don't be like me 12 years down the road, after it should have ended. All that time thinking a solution would come, that he loved me but something was in the way. Yes something was in the way - he didn't fancy me, but didn't actually admit to that till when we were finally splitting up.

We were together 22 years, been split up now 3 years. My regret? That I didn't face up to the truth that was staring me in face much sooner (I'm 58!).

This is going to be really really tough, but have faith in a future. Living like this is a torture that will never go away. It is done. Courage my friend.

Wise words rosabug

Agree 100% with @rosabug
I've been in a similar situation, minus any dc but I was living abroad at the time.
Me trying to discuss the issues, asking him to seek help to find out what the issues were. For years I stuck it out for way too long because he kept telling me it wasn't me! he was 100% attracted to me! He just didn't have any libido anymore (Funny the porn didn't appear to be an issue)
I hoped it would improve but it never did. All that happened was my self respect, confidence and self esteem went right out of the window. I felt on rock bottom if I'm totally honest.
I massively resented him. I vividly remember an argument I started with him in a supermarket right before I ended it....
He would do this thing where in public he would touch, hug, kiss, physically interact with me but not in private
It took me a while to realise that this was almost a show, for the outside world, of his masculinity (albeit totally fake) and so appearances looked normal. It's difficult to explain but it's truly why he'd do it. I snapped not to fucking touch me outside if he didn't want to at home. So he didn't .
I knew I had to end it one day, it had been coming like I say I already resented him, didn't respect him and why should I when he didn't respect our relationship, but I'd been talking to a guy for a few weeks while walking the dog. It started off innocently, just friendly until he told me he liked me and asked me out.
Nothing happened as I'm not/never have been a cheat BUT I will admit I did think what if..... It awoke my feelings from below my waist (which I'd numbed/turned to ice to be able to deal with exdp)
I knew then that I was done and there was no point to continue.

6 years down the drain!
We were still in contact a few times a year and although he has apologised for what happened, He's never given me any kind of explanation.
When he found out I got married he attempted to ask if my husband made me happy sexually and wanted to know if he was better than him (that didn't take much tbh)
I'm not quite sure why he felt he wanted to know this as I'm sure he will remember it was shite but....
I answered honestly :)
Funny, he doesn't contact me quite as regularly now.

@pickletickled - oh wow - that sounds classic passive aggressive. Giving you hope, leading you on, knifing you under the table. I have very little doubt that's a pattern he is unable to break. Passive aggressive types are barely conscience of why they do what they do.

I know my ex had huge difficulties realising his sexuality in his youth and young adulthood. A lot of men think they should be out sleeping around, but can't seem to do it ('compete' from their primitive brain's point of view) so I think they stick with one woman and make her pay.

It doesn't sound like your ex could connect honestly on any meaningful level and it would not surprise me if he got off on your answer to his question. On some level by answering him you were weirdly still in his control......

I dunno - some men are so fucked up about women - so fucked up.

This may be of interest - but don't let it lead you to think there is a fix. I genuinely don't think there is.

www.liveabout.com/is-your-passive-aggressive-husband-withholding-sex-1102411

I think he knows he can't control me/the situation hence the extremely minimal contact after I answered the question for him :)
I didn't answer intentionally to hurt him but if it did then he only has himself to blame really.

I have had this. Constant talks and promises of fixing things. Whenever I got to the point of leaving, he'd sleep with me. Never made effort past about 2 weeks before it went back to normal.

I could be wrong, but don't be thrown off by the kiss. He can do it but has chosen not to because he doesn't want to. He only did it to stop you leaving, not because he wanted to kiss you or he would already be doing it.

I left because of other reasons, but I am happier now. All the things he made me feel have turned out not to be true, and I have no trouble finding people that I find attractive who actually want to sleep with me. My self esteem is still low but it's getting better and yours can too.

Fab news Inkie.
Many people think this is all about the actual physical part of sex. While yes that does play some part for me, it wasn't totally about that.
Sex for me provides a kind of proof of the connection to the person I'm sharing my life with - more so emotionally, chemically (the feel goods) and physically as well. IMO it's a big part of the driving force of what makes you partners and different to the relationship that you have with others.
While I was going through this at the time, I'd go online, here and other sites and some attitudes were - so what it's only sex!

but for me, as I explained above, it's not just the physical act of it.

It sounds desperately sad, could a factor be that he is petrified of you getting pregnant?

I think the post partum psychosis is a huge factor.

That must have been incredibly scary and wobbling for him (obviously it was beyond awful for you) and I wonder if he’s just terrified of you getting pregnant accidentally.

I have bipolar and my dh gets very stressed about me doing things that aren’t good for my MH (drinking, not sleeping etc) and it’s one of the only things we ever argue about. My illness took over his life for a couple of years and while I’m happy and healthy and have put it behind me, he is the one struggling now.

Could that be a factor?