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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Seeing him in a different light. Should I be worried?

73 replies

lefreakcestchique · 18/03/2020 10:26

Recently my husband had a falling out with my mum. He was in an awful mood for days and kept trying to provoke an argument with me. This culminated in a row when my mum happened to be there. My son (2) was crying because his dad dad changed his routine, then changed it again and my mum stepped in at seeing him and me distressed.

DH accepts he caused, started and escalated the row but says as it happened in our house DM should apologise to him. Hell will freeze over before DM apologises to him even though she accepts she should have held her tongue as the dispute was between me and DH.

Now DH is refusing to pick up or drop off DS with my mum. I don't drive, neither does she. So essentially he is cutting off any respite for me (I also have a 1yr old) and creating a barrier to mine and the kids relationship with my mum.

In thinking about this I've also realised he has ended my friendship with my best friend of 20 years and closed down relationships with 2 other close friends of mine. All of these failings out occurring after he's treated me appallingly and they have told him his behaviour is out of order.

I'm starting to wonder that there is more at play here but I'm struggling to see the wood from the trees. Please help me gain some clarity here.

Please.

OP posts:
lefreakcestchique · 19/03/2020 09:12

The suicide attempt is significant because my little sister killed herself. He knows it's an incredibly sensitive issue for me and it took all of my strength to tell the nurse no, I couldn't help him.

I've invested so much of myself in building him and it's been for nothing.

His family adore me because he's a much better person now. They'd be devastated by me leaving him too.

OP posts:
Wisteriacottage · 19/03/2020 09:30

Ok so you are too nice and too kind to others to put you and your DC first.

Every little decision you make will affect them. Think about it.

Sounds like you are more emotionally involved in him, his family and his wellbeing than your own.

You are too emotionally involved to back out now aren't you?

It would mean admitting defeat after all your exhaustive time, effort and ££ wouldn't it? Have you heard of the sunken cost fallacy? Look it up.

Your poor sister would be horrified if his manipulation of her situation ended up negatively impacting on your life and her nieces and nephews lives so for her sake just stop this and see him for what he is.

He is the worst of the worst. A cockroach. Hopefully you can imagine that next time you see him or think of him.

Listen to the unanimous advice on MN op.

TorkTorkBam · 19/03/2020 09:47

Him turning up at your door after being "suicidal" show he wasn't. It was all about control. By refusing to engage with the hospital you were refusing to play his game so he had to try something else, even more dramatic, with not a thought to the impact on a child. What a selfish dickhead.

I'm sure his family do want you involved. It absolves them of helping. He sorted himself out for a while, which shows he is capable of doing so. Life events happen. Other people cannot make him be better or worse. If anything you could take the view that his worst behaviour has been in your relationship. Your relationship drives him to extremes. Therefore the kindest thing for him is for you to end the realtionship and block all contact. If you need to tell yourself something tell yourself that.

Also, recognise in yourself that if your self-esteem is on the floor it must be nice to feel like you have so much influence over someone's life and other people, his family, think you are hugely important and influential. The sooner the better for you to tell yourself, him and them that you have no control over his behaviour. It is all him. If he wants to change that is entirely down to him, if anything your presence in his life makes harder because he has ingrained bad patterns of behaviour with you.

lefreakcestchique · 19/03/2020 09:47

I am listening, I promise.

Naively, I've always thought the kids would be unaware of all of this. It's me he treats badly and I can shield them from it. What appears to have woken this in me is the argument with my mum. He screamed and shouted all while our small children were in my arms and at my feet and had no regard for their distress. That's what caused my mum to step in.

I am taking this on board and planning my extraction from what is a toxic situation.

I am aware my daughters will take their cue about what is acceptable from me. I know my sons will learn how to treat women from me. I desperately want better for them.

I am hearing you all loud and clear and I am calculating my next move.

OP posts:
GilbertMarkham · 19/03/2020 09:51

From his behaviour this time, and the past examples you've outlined (and the other people/friends he had ousted from your life by the sounds of it) .... This man is a Grade A wakking fkg disaster. I don't know what you're going to do about access to your kids when separated. If you're lucky maybe he'll be absent. You might have to go for supervised access, I'd ask women's aid/can etc.

GilbertMarkham · 19/03/2020 09:51

*walking

GilbertMarkham · 19/03/2020 09:58

*CAB

REignbow · 19/03/2020 10:18

I’m glad that you have woken up.

Please now be very careful, as he may sense you pulling away from him.

Ring women’s aid for support.

Also, please consider what is happening now in the world (the virus), you need him gone. And soon.

Wisteriacottage · 19/03/2020 10:27

Expect more "suicide bids" tell the police what has happened before by getting in touch with the domestic abuse department of your local police force and tell them about his manipulation of you.

He has absolutely no empathy for you or your DC which is absolutely chilling.

When you desperately needed help and support he managed to turn it round by being absent and then coming back bloodied so the attention is back on him.

This has sociopathic behaviour written all over it and it is destroying your mental health.

You cannot deal with this on your own. You need to get rid. Can you change the locks today?

Sicario · 19/03/2020 21:09

You can't "save" him. Stop trying. Get out of there.

MyOwnSummer · 19/03/2020 22:27

Jeez it just gets worse, it really does. That "suicide attempt" is straight out of the abusers script, and the escalation to doorstep drama when you rightly asserted your boundaries would be laughable if it wasn't so cruel to you and the kids, given the family history you mentioned.

Look, you mentioned in a previous update that people here might give you a hard time if they knew more. Not at all. The blunt statements from posters here are no reflection on you. His behaviour is his to own, and posts here reflect legitimate disgust at the manipulative shitty behaviour that you have been through. Not directed at you at all.

I do stand by my previous remark that you should kick him out, however the manipulative bollocks will most likely escalate in the short term. Ugh.

And forget his family, they might be nice and they might appreciate the positive changes in him but frankly why should he get better at your expense? Are you not important as a person? Stop thinking about how they feel, if they know what he's like and support the relationship then they sure as shit aren't thinking about you. Or the children.

If you're going to be a babysitter / their human shield they should bloody well be paying you an appropriate hourly rate!

Ce7913 · 20/03/2020 05:33

"...DH accepts he caused, started and escalated the row..."

Words, words. Utterly meaningless words.

Sure, he made those "I'm totes in the wrong and super sorry" mouth noises at you, like all abusers do, but look at his actions:

If he actually felt responsible for what happened, and took personal responsibility for abusing and intimidating his wife and children, then he would be thanking your mother for protecting and defending his family when he was attacking them, not punishing her. And you. And your children.

If he were truly sorry and genuinely recognised that his behaviour was completely out of line and indefensible, then he would be abjectly apologising to her for forcing her to have to do what any decent human being would - step in and protect his wife from his abusive temper tantrum and prevent him from further traumatising his children.

After all, what kind of mother would she be if she just sat there and watched her daughter and grandchildren be abused and intimidated and do nothing?

What kind of a person would just sit there and watch a woman and children being screamed at and do nothing?

What he's 'cleverly' done in the aftermath of his abusive, intimidating, utterly inexcusable behaviour is manufacture a situation that swiftly shifted your emotional/psychological focus:

  • Away from holding him accountable for his disgusting behaviour
  • Away from the little voice inside your head that was outraged and disgusted by his abusive behaviour and maybe began questioning his decency and suitability as a partner and parent, and,
  • Towards placating him in order to retain your relationship with your mother and the respite and emotional support and connection which she offers.

...Successfully, as evidenced by the fact that you're actually placating him and practically begging him to 'forgive' her and permit contact with her for you and your children instead of looking at him with rightful disgust and disillusionment and telling him to get over himself and snap out of it lest you lose further respect and love for him.

What he's also managed with this handy little manouver of his is next time, you'll think twice about disagreeing with him/objecting to his abuse, and your mother will probably ignore all of her instincts and think twice about protecting you, as she'll see staying silent as the lesser evil when the alternative is you and your children being completely cut off from her support.

....This right here is why abusers just don't change.

There's no introspection, no taking personal responsibility, no bearing of the emotional and psychological 'weight' of their own bad behaviour.

Another person might glean life lessons and personal growth from the aftermath or consequences of their own actions.

In an abuser, accountability, responsibility and shame are all either deflected or weaponised in service of protecting their own ego and interests, which is always, always their first priority.

"...but says as it happened in our house DM should apologise to him..."

Riiiiiiight.

Just so we're clear:

A man abusing and intimidating his wife and children is wrong, but not if he does it in his own house.

Stepping in when you witness a man abusing and intimidating his wife and children is right, but only if he is abusing his wife and children in a public place, not in their own home.

Once the king of the castle steps within the threshold of his front door, he may abuse whomever he wishes and no-one should do anything.

So basically every domestic abuser ever is in the clear, and anyone who has ever called the police because the king of next door's castle was tantruming like a man-child, or because women or children were screaming or crying, is actually wrong and should apologise. The police who showed up and (maybe) arrested him should apologise.

FlowerArranger · 20/03/2020 07:58

I've invested so much of myself in building him and it's been for nothing.

He has deliberately used his issues to manipulate and control you. To ensure his total control, he is isolating you from your entire support network. You in turn have been trying yo change him by investing in and building him. But you know that this is who he is, and he will not change. (It would be interesting to compare notes with his Ex...)

Does this resonate at all:-

"(You need to take)... a hard look at what is, rather than what you hope will be. As you let go of managing and controlling, you must also let go of the idea that “when he changes I’ll be happy.”
“The key is in learning how to live a healthy, satisfying, and serene life without being dependent on another person for happiness.”
― Robin Norwood, Women Who Love Too Much

NearlyGranny · 20/03/2020 08:36

You've been setting yourself on fire to keep him warm for years, essentially.

You're under no o ligation to go on doing it.

lefreakcestchique · 20/03/2020 10:28

@ce7913 thank you. Thank you so much for that. Every word resonates with me you are right in the entirety of what you say.

I really appreciate absolutely every comment each of you have made. My children and I definitely deserve better than this.

I don't feel the same anymore. He's different to me now. He's willing to hurt anyone to make himself happy. Even our children.

I'm considering my next move carefully. I looked at a new house for myself and the kids yesterday and put my application in there and then. It's round the corner from my mums so would be ideal in terms of support.

My mum has commented that she feels he's trying to isolate me and she's not going to allow it. She won't leave me to deal with this alone.

I'm taking steps to get away from him. The mood has changed significantly in the last few days, as if he knows I'm pulling away.

I feel shut down to him and his moods. I just don't care anymore.

OP posts:
copycopypaste · 20/03/2020 10:33

Well done re the house op Thanks keep going, small steps if you have to, but keep moving forward and away from him

probablysue · 20/03/2020 10:39

Do not let him move with you. Move to be closer to your mum. If you have to, to get away easily, say “this Coronavirus has shown me that I need to be living in the same street as my mother in case she needs support when she’s elderly” move. Make him live on his own and prove himself to you. Get back in touch with your friends. Apologise. Say “it’s taken everything I’ve got but Ive got rid of him. You were right. He’s abusive. Please can we restart our friendship. I know I don’t deserve you but I love and miss you” throw yourself on the mercy of the people you’ve cut off because of him and never EVER cut off family and friends because of a man again.

GreySuede · 20/03/2020 11:03

Also OP, as he is so manipulative, remember to keep contact as minimal as possible in your break up. You want to minimise or completely stop any emotional or traumatic engagement. A man who turns up bloody in a blanket from hospital is cracked, so keep safe. Get any help you need from friends family Women’s Aid Police that you need. Sounds like your mum is coming up trumps so let her help you if she can. Be firm, calm and resolute.

Flowers
Dozer · 20/03/2020 15:22

V glad you are planning to leave. Seek help from a womens organisation.

Closetbeanmuncher · 20/03/2020 16:30

Great post @Ce7913

Please follow through OP, it's not your job to life-coach this tyrannical brat.

lefreakcestchique · 22/03/2020 10:25

It's Mother's Day. He's in bed while I see to the kids. He's tired apparently. The 9 hrs uninterrupted sleep he gets in his own bed while I'm up multiple times a night breastfeeding the little one clearly not enough for him. Despite him knowing I'm taking the kids to see my mum for a few hours later. He's using that time to relax apparently.

Fuck this. Absolutely fuck this.

OP posts:
contrary13 · 22/03/2020 12:02

He's punishing you, because he senses that you're withdrawing emotionally from him. It's what abusers do. They make our lives more difficult, simply because (a) they can, and (b) to punish us.

If I were you, I'd be very wary when you come back from your mum's later. Expect aggression and paranoia from him. And don't rise to either. If he's anything like my abuser, anything you respond with will be twisted against you - and then the gaslighting will start. I hope I'm mistaken, but he does seem to be following the usual script, I'm afraid.

Flowers - and kudos to your mum for recognising that he's trying to isolate you, and refusing to let him!

Theluggagerules · 27/03/2020 10:41

Are you ok?

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