Seeing him in a different light. Should I be worried?

[lefreakcestchique]

Recently my husband had a falling out with my mum. He was in an awful mood for days and kept trying to provoke an argument with me. This culminated in a row when my mum happened to be there. My son (2) was crying because his dad dad changed his routine, then changed it again and my mum stepped in at seeing him and me distressed.

DH accepts he caused, started and escalated the row but says as it happened in our house DM should apologise to him. Hell will freeze over before DM apologises to him even though she accepts she should have held her tongue as the dispute was between me and DH.

Now DH is refusing to pick up or drop off DS with my mum. I don't drive, neither does she. So essentially he is cutting off any respite for me (I also have a 1yr old) and creating a barrier to mine and the kids relationship with my mum.

In thinking about this I've also realised he has ended my friendship with my best friend of 20 years and closed down relationships with 2 other close friends of mine. All of these failings out occurring after he's treated me appallingly and they have told him his behaviour is out of order.

I'm starting to wonder that there is more at play here but I'm struggling to see the wood from the trees. Please help me gain some clarity here.

Please.

He shouldn't be refusing to drop you and the kids/2 year old at your mum's, that's very controlling. Could you get a taxi over there? It could wait for you to drop them off, then drive you back. You shouldn't have to do that, though.

He's awful- please leave him.

Of course abusers are usually nice sometimes- they know that otherwise we'd dump them when we can.

OP, if you don't end it with him you could lose all your other family and friends. It's just not worth the risk.

Op, please pack his things and tell him to get out and don’t look back!
Think about your future and not your past, imagine yourself in the future looking at this behaviour and knowing you caused it to go on for years and years because you didn’t kick him to the curb and get him out of your life.

Thank you all. I needed to hear this, loud and clear without him minimising his shit behaviour (and me minimising it too!) I suspect if I gave you a frank account of the things he's put me through, you'd hand my arse to me!

I'm amazed at myself. Truly. I'm notoriously feisty and headstrong, have refused to let anyone control me... all the while it's been happening without me noticing it.

I cried this morning at him. I explained I've finally got my mum back and please, let this one thing go, for mine and the kids sake. Think of the times he's been forgiven for much worse. No. He was unmoved. I put it to him that if it had happened in any other space but our home, would he expect an apology? He said of course not. So I suggested that maybe he could now see how ridiculous he was being? Me and the kids having a barrier to my mother for no other reason but to prove he's king of the castle. No. He's absolutely unmoved by how upsetting it is for me.

He doesn't really care at all does he?

Thing is, its not his bloody house is it? Your name on the paperwork.

Arse. Boot. Door.

I'm not afraid of it, but is it worth breaking up my family for or is there a future for us Your family will be stronger without him.

He once asked me why I get so upset when (I'm his words "I've only done that twice in 4 years. I used to do that to my ex most weekends. I'm much better with you!"

He's questioning, why you are questioning his faults.

Look, you've seen the light now, dont look back. Just build a happy future for the DC.

Get in touch with your old friends and tell them what you’ve put here.
You’re going to need them.

Please don’t even give him a chance to explain himself or apologise.

You need to be straight with him- I have analysed and thought about every single situation I have faced since being with you and I’m finished. I want you to leave immediately. We will discuss the children seeing you another time, but apart from topics that concern the kids- don’t contact me.

It's not even his house op
It's your house

You're begging to have a relationship with your mother from that asshole?! Are you drunk? Kick him the fuck out stat

I consider myself a strong, intelligent, independent, feisty women. So do my friends/family/colleagues.
I was in an abusive relationship for 20 years and had no idea until I left him.
You relationship doesn't sound good,
Your husband is the boss of you - do you really want to live under his control and your children to live under his control forever?
You children are also more likely to pick terrible relationships/partners too as that's what you are modelling for them.
I'd kick him out so he can reflect on his behaviour, and I wouldn't have him back.
Congrats to your Mum for her 1 year.

DH accepts he caused, started and escalated the row but says as it happened in our house DM should apologise to him.

Sounds like a highly rational, reasonable person.

So whoever's home (does that extend to workplaces) any argument happens in - is the person who must be apologised to, totally regardless of their part in an argument. Riiight.

He sounds like he has the "my home is my castle", " i'm the boss at home", "I'm the head of the household" dominant alpha male thing going on ... Usually a sign of an abuser of one type or another.

Agree with all PPs.

With two young children it’s so hard, try to reconnect with any support you can get.

OP, try to look at adult child of alcoholic online. That could help explain the choice of relationship and the difficulty in seeing the abuse in your relationship. You are incredible for identifying the toxic pattern. Good luck, wish you well 💐

for no other reason but to prove he's king of the castle.

I hadn't even read this before I posted - you've nailed it yourself.

That's not really a personality type you can have s good relationship with.

I'm always posting the link to the Lundy Bancroft book, but I think it's really worth you having a read through it (esp the abuser profiles). It's primarily about physical abuse but covers all types and is very insightful.

www.docdroid.net/py03/why-does-he-do-that.pdf

"I've only done that twice in 4 years. I used to do that to my ex most weekends. I'm much better with you!"

So he can stop or minimise what he does then .. so it's his choice to do it or not do it then.

One thing in that book I think is almost always true is that behaviour we put down to irrationality/emotion/anger etc. In men like this is actually very purposeful, chosen behaviour .. to get control & privileges, to.keep control and privileges, to set up and maintain a stays quo that suits them, to indulge their power and enjoy throwing their weight around etc.

It's all really quite purposeful and tactical when it's seen through - they specialise in obscuring that.

*Think of the times he's been forgiven for much worse. No. He was unmoved. I put it to him that if it had happened in any other space but our home, would he expect an apology? He said of course not. So I suggested that maybe he could now see how ridiculous he was being? Me and the kids having a barrier to my mother for no other reason but to prove he's king of the castle. No. He's absolutely unmoved by how upsetting it is for me.

He doesn't really care at all does he?*

Who knows.

All that's clear is that he's rather have control, dominance, stubbornness, antagonism, isolation etc than have a healthy, happy, reasonable, moderate relationship and family life.

Sounds like you've put up with a lot, sounds like he found the right woman for him.. up til now; not a decent relationship for you though. Sorry you're in this position op.

"I've only done that twice in 4 years. I used to do that to my ex most weekends. I'm much better with you!"

Sorry forgot to say - what blatant minimisation in that statement too.

Like a serial killer telling the cops he was actually v good only killing two people in their area, cause he'd killed nine in a different area.

The only choices as he sees it are unbelievably shit behaviour and extremely shit behaviour. Apparently there is no universe in which shit behaviour isn't present with him.

You said you wondered I'd your mum getting sober and being likely more likely to be "with it" enough (sorry, can't think of a nicer way of putting that) to see his behaviour, criticise his behaviour, stand up for you etc. is the reason he's trying to cut her out, wit this argument as the excuse.

Seems v much like you're correct and it's wonderful that you can still see it, with what he's out you through.

Was the cutting out if your friend similar?

It dies sound like anyone who's likely to criticise his behaviour, give you perspective, support you etc. is for the chop. Pure power play. He wants things set up exactly as they are and gets rid of anyone who could cause you to/help.you to change it (or even just give him hassle and be less compliant).

Sounds like he wants the sort of woman who is the mother in that far right Christian family they made several.programmes about - the documentary maker tried to ask her her own opinion and she replied "what he said" (referring to her husband, who then smirked in satisfaction). He really should move to the deep.south and join that "church" or a cult or something.

He's completely minimising what he's done. And yes, if he did care, he would be upset that he's upset you.

He is trying to isolate you from your mum. He sees her as a threat now she's sober, and he doesn't like it.

And yes, abusers are very charming some of the time. Lovely and loving. They have to be or you wouldn't stay with them.

(and as a pp says, keeping you pregnant and tied to the house, and more vulnerable therefore reliant on him, is also a Thing).

You should listen to what your friends say about him - they are rarely wrong ime.

Thank you all. I really needed this strong dose of reality, hard as it has hit me, it's been necessary.

I've watched him interact with me tonight and it was like looking at a stranger. I can't unsee what's been glaringly obvious to everyone except me.

He's no good for me.

I believe he loves me, but it's in his own way. And it's because I'm unwaveringly supportive and loyal. I've pushed him to reconnect with his older children, I've helped him build a business, I've filed court documents for legal issues and acted as his Mackenzie friend, I've organised counselling for him and consistently supported him in addressing his issues...

He loves me because he likes the idea of who he could be in my eyes.

But he's not that man. It's an illusion. The emperors new clothes.

Now that I'm awake, there is no going back from this.

My heart is breaking for my boys. What have I brought them into?? How can I have chosen someone so wrong to be their father?! Oh my god.

I need to manage carefully how to extract us from this because if I play it wrong he could deeply hurt my boys. They adore their daddy. This is so sad.

Of course he is brilliant today. He is loving this.

op.

Many many people have separated/divorced and forged good new lives for themselves.

As someone said on here, it's rarely the instant fairytale happy ending but in the long-term it is a happy one.

You can look into all aspects of separating, financial and otherwise and work out his best to do it.

You're obviously a well organised, proactive, intelligent woman from this thread and from the snapshot of what you've done for him/helped him with. You can put that organisation and good sense towards your own and your son's lives, instead of into him - while he treats you badly.

Btw you haven't outlined the behaviour of his you referred to (,what you put up with, what he's been forgiven for) but I have a feeling it's bad.

As someone said, dealing with your mum having addiction issues has perhaps affected your behaviour in relationships .. have you had any counselling?

Its brilliant that you've achieved such clarity OP. Hold on to that. You're obviously a smart and capable woman, you can do this.

@gilbertmarkham it's incredibly outing because it's so specific but a few of the things I have forgiven for...

Finding out he has a child he has never met. I did not know this until over 2 years in.

Messaging another woman

Disappearing when I was pregnant with our son.

When I ended it he turned checked himself into hospital feeling suicidal. The nurse rang me and said he was begging to see me. I explained I could not and would not as I was extracting myself from an unhealthy relationship. The nurse was clearly disgusted with me. He discharged himself and turned up at my house wearing only a pair of jeans and a hospital blanket, no shoes and covered in blood. My child answered the door to this horrific scene.

Probably the worst- I had a very traumatic emergency c section with my son, we were told both of us may not make it. We were released from hospital and it was Xmas time. He was given strict instructions not to leave me alone as I was still quite sick. He walked out on New Year's Eve without telling me, leaving me alone, in a very unwell state to care for our 15 day old baby. He went out and got in a state, came back at 8am as if nothing had happened. Said he deserved a night out. Did not contact us at all for the 20 hrs or so he was gone.

I kicked him out then. He immediately went to AA (off his own back) and I saw him improve all without my help or insistence because by then I didn't care any more. It was unforgivable. But after around 8 months of progress and pretty much perfection, I thought he had really changed.

I was wrong.

Put it this way: he is your DC's role model. Is he kind, thoughtful, loving, caring, puts yours and your DC's interests first 100% of the time?

My dh is my DC's role model. He models behaviour I want my DC to emanate when they grow up. He treats me with kindness and consideration. He treats them with kindness and consideration. I don't want my DC growing up where their safe and peaceful home is blotted with toxic behaviour by anyone.

Every one has a charming side. It's not the charming side you need to worry about. It's their dark side you need to be aware of.

Your dh is one big flapping red flag and he causing untold emotional and psychological damage to your DC through his poor behaviour and treatment of you.

Please reclaim your sense of identity and don't try to be a mental health nurse and counselor for him without proper training especially with children in the house!

Your lovely dc should take up all your emotional energy not have their safe space ruined by toxicity.

Get back in touch with your best friend and ask her what she thinks of him.

Thank goodness you are waking up. You cannot fix a selfish nasty man so it sounds as if you have wasted years trying because you are too nice and too giving.

You don't have a healthy relationship op do you? You know what you need to do so do it. Good luck.

Get him out before he does anymore damage.