Complex marriage problem

[Seaside1234]

I’ve been married for 13 years, with him for 19 years, 2 kids. DH has complex, chronic depression which was finally diagnosed about 7 years ago when youngest was a baby. Very bad episode about 2.5 years ago when he had an affair and nearly left - when I found out, we both decided to stay and work on it. Pretty successful marriage counselling, but since then he has gradually withdrawn from any meaningful conversation. I’ve struggled with anxiety in the last couple of years, and was diagnosed with high-functioning autism a year ago. We are now so non-communicative on anything important that I had to really push him into a conversation so I could talk to him about the diagnosis. He was extremely unsupportive during my last significant episode of anxiety. He’s self-employed and has not been meeting his share of financial commitments for over a year, without asking me if that’s ok or if I can handle it (which I barely can). When I finally snapped and told him via text that I couldn’t keep paying his share and couldn’t cope with the withdraw/bounce back cycle any more, he told me he’s in significant financial trouble. He then completely refused to talk about it on my terms and told me it wasn’t that big a deal. Told me to stop bothering him and has stonewalled since then. So still no conversation about money, or anything. He spends much of the day in bed, doesn’t seem to be busting a gut trying to earn money that I can see. He has been rendered essentially out of work by the Coronavirus shutdown.

The problem I am having is that I’m genuinely incapable of starting any conversation in person. I just can’t do it. I think it’s the fear of rejection (even though I would love to not care what he thinks of me) plus an overwhelming, possibly autistic-related dislike of confrontation. So I am minimising being around him and pretending everything’s fine. I’m so stuck. I’m trying to understand that things have been hard for him, but he seems to have no understanding that they might have been hard for me too. At the very least we need to talk about money. How can I get up the courage to tackle this? Is he being as unreasonable as I think?

Thanks MN hive mind x

Oh gosh OP that sounds so hard. Would it be easier to write a letter and leave it for him?

Tried that in the past - he hates any unexpected text/email/letter, pushes against it, says everything’s harder when he’s dreading the next message. The underlying problem that I am struggling and need better support and communication doesn’t seem to get through. So I don’t get any useful response to written communication, but he doesn’t respond to requests to start conversation in person. I’m completely stuck.

Sounds like he wants to use his mental illness as an excuse to engage in many episodes of risk-taking, short-sighted behavior, spending more money than he has, having an affair. He may still be having an affair, for that matter.

This is not someone you can stay with. You may find your own "issues" evaporate when you're not living with someone who is an emotional vampire.

It sounds like he expected his mental illness would be greeted by you as an all-purpose get-out-of-doing-anything-free card. So when it turned out you had special needs of your own, and couldn't just center his needs, he's totally tuned you out and doesn't give a shit.

He's being totally unreasonable and you need to leave.

He has an affair, he has depression, he doesn’t contribute, he doesn’t respect you, he claims he’s in financial trouble, he doesn’t want to talk or communicate, he hates letters, but he does love his bed.......
Meanwhile, you’ve been hurt, you supported your marriage by counselling, you sort finances for the household, you do everything, your suffering with anxiety and you are being ignored, abused and isolated.
The only letter I would be sending him would be notice if divorce proceedings.
Can you see this all improving? 5, 10,15 more years of this, sapping the life out of you. You have HF autism, not a death sentence. You will find that if you cut the weeds away, you will blossom. The last thing you need is to be ignored, shut down, disrespected or scared to ask a very sensible fair question. My ds has autism and I couldn’t bare to treat him that way or anyone else for that matter. The one person you need to love and be kind to, is yourself. The rest will follow. Your dh needs to help himself.

Many issues at play here. Try to distinguish what are the most important things for you.

To be brutally honest it sounds like he checked out of the marriage quite a while back.

I fear you might be putting a lot of effort into saving something that is already dead.

You will be much better off putting the energy (and your money) into you and the kids. It’s very clear from your post that you will not accept this, but there has to come a point where you realise you are going to have to face facts and move forwards. flowers]

I pretty much agree with what’s being said, but I genuinely can’t start that conversation. I have no idea where to get the courage from. I am pretending everything is fine because I am so paralysed by fear of rejection and confrontation. I wish he’d just leave, but I don’t think he could afford to, tbh. Thank you for your honest opinions, I appreciate it. The close friends who know him and who I’ve discussed it with also think I should leave.

@Seaside1234.....
if you cut the weeds away, you will blossom

Stop dithering and focus on the practicalities of building a new life without him.

Tell him you want to split up and need to sort out the details. That's it. Don't waste time going over and over what's happened with him, there's no point. He is lazy and uncaring, a cheat, and a scrounger - his mental illness doesn't somehow just cancel all that out. He's happy to sit around, because you're propping up the finances. He's draining the life out of you and nothing will change for the better in your life until you get rid. Hopefully you won't feel guilty, because he sure as hell feels no guilt whatsoever about being a millstone around your neck. He's checked out and is not interested in you. Get your life back l.

Sounds like he wants to use his mental illness as an excuse...

I was thinking the same thing. He's behaved and continues to behave badly, and he's getting away with it, OP.

I know you don't want to confront him, but could you try writing down everything you want to say and then going through the list? He has to take some responsibility for his actions.

it might be complex but it's also black and white.... he's taking the fucking piss
that's what's going on!

He doesn't really act like a partner does he, he acts like a 13-year old boy 🙄
Do you even have to tell him, you could just arrange it all and leave him a 'dear John'?

How about if you don’t talk to him you just talk to a solicitor instead?

Honestly he is censoring you - you are not allowed to talk to him, you are not allowed to write a letter to him, you are not allowed to send him texts. Seriously?? Who put him in charge? Why is he more important than you?

I am not surprised you feel anxiety. You are being shut out of your own marriage by what sounds like a massive pisstaker.

Yes, I think divorce is the way forward. This is never going to get better. It's no way to spend your life.

He obviously isn’t well or happy, but he has boxed you into a corner to preserve his status quo. This is not sustainable for you, so I think you must take some difficult unilateral decisions, as you are the only functioning adult in your family. Get legal advice and start the leaving process. You are not in a mutually supportive relationship.

Always amazes me how these men suffering with depression find the energy shag other women, but can't muster up the energy to treat their wives with any respect.

What he's doing is the equivalent of when a child puts their fingers in their ears and shouts 'la la la, I can't hear you'.

You deserve happiness in your life. It's not ALL about him.

For your own mental health, text him he needs to leave.
You need to take care of yourself

Thank you, team MN. It does help clarify that we can’t go on like this, but I still don’t know where to begin. I love the person he was but not the person he has become. I can’t even say ‘but he’s a brilliant dad’ because he isn’t right now, and my 11yo in particular is well aware something’s wrong. I am worried about his mental and physical health right now, but the thought that I’m sure he’s not worrying about mine is sobering. The description of him as having checked out is about right. But I still have no idea how to begin any conversation. I am looking at guides for autistic people with specific scripts for difficult conversations - it may be that’s all I can manage to start with. TY all again x

Things feel very similar to where they were when he began the affair last time, and I don’t know how much of what I’m feeling is PTSD-like, going back to one of the worst periods of my life.

@Seaside1234...... You don't actually have to tell him anything! You tried, multiple times, he is refusing to listen. Time to focus on the practicalities of leaving him.

What's your housing situation - own or rent? Any equity, assets, investments, pensions? Collect and copy all documentation. Have a look at Wikivorce. Get some books about divorce (library). Make notes and get up to speed about the whole process. Have a consultation with a competent family solicitor. Start putting money aside.

One step at a time. You can do this.

We jointly own the house, both have separate pensions (mine is much better but still a crappy amount just now), no significant assets. I would buy him out of the house minus the money he owes me, which ironically would probably fix his financial problems (don’t know for sure as he wouldn’t discuss money, don’t know how much he owes). I love where we live (he doesn’t and would presumably move back to the near-ish big city we left), and I am leaving our house over my dead body. He would presumably need to pay child maintenance and also for half of our dog’s care and maintenance? I’ve actually just asked a friend if she could recommend her divorce lawyer, but he sounds mega-expensive. However, I suspect my dad would lend me money if he knew what it was for (he doesn’t like DH)

I think the writing is on the wall Seaside, it's time to move on and leave him behind, what do you have to lose?

@Seaside1234, make a list of what needs to happen.

1. Get all your paper work and copies of his financials together.
2. See the divorce lawyer.
3. Notify him

3 is your difficult one. You can do it one of two ways. You can either message him.... fuck what he feels about messages. He doesn't give a shit about how you feel about thing, so if messaging is easier for you, just do it. He doesn't have to reply. You are not asking him, you are telling him.

Or you could go up to him and say it to him. Again, you don't wait for a reply, there is no rejection or confrontation. You are merely informing him of what is happening and leave it at that.

And please don't worry any further about his health. You've wasted enough time on him. Now is the time to start looking after yourself.

Is he likely to just ignore any communication from a solicitor too?

I can foresee a very awkward situation where you are divorcing him and buying him out of the house but he refuses to 'hear' any of it and just stays and stays and stsys and refuses to sign anything or even acknowledge it's happening. Can you have contingency plans for that being the case?

I don't think he's depressed so much as sticking his head in the sand and pretending none of it is happening. Tough. Time for him to face up to his responsibilities and real life. Echoing others in saying that 'depression' is no excuse for an affair either, does he use 'I'm depressed' to mean 'shut up and stop bothering me and just sort everything out for me.'

@Seaside1234... when you say mega-expensive, what do you mean? Unfortunately competent lawyers ARE expensive. Anything between £300-400 per hour. But it will be money well spent.

Just make sure you do your homework and use the time wisely. Read up at Wikivorce, get books about the divorce process, make notes, lists of questions. Be totally focused during the appointment. Don't waste time on telling the lawyer the whole sorry tale of your marriage and all the horrible things he has done. Don't send lengthy emails; in fact avoid emailing at all unless strictly necessary. Just having them read the email will cost you £6-10!

What you need is:-
Copies of birth and marriage certificates
5 succinct instances of unreasonable behaviour
A list of all assets and debts (house, mortgage, estimate of current value/equity; bank statements; assets, investments, debts; salary slips, P60s; pensions)
Anything else mentioned in your divorce book...

I would not waste my breath and emotional energy on trying to talk to him right now. Tell him - factually, succinctly, unemotionally - once you are ready to file. There really is no point in engaging in any lengthy discussions at this point.