You've got to be kidding

[mumsville]

Right - posted about a few relationship probs with dh and mil both of whom I find very maniputlative.

Get this. DH announced today that he plans to take ds abroad to see his sick father for 10 days. DS will be about 16 months. I don't think I could cope. I've just returned to work and find it hard enough but to take ds out of the country.

Also fil being ill. In context. fil lives with his girlfriend of mnay years in family house. mil (always the martyr) moved out. Mil very manipuliative. FIL abusive to dh but mil still wants him back. FIL has kidney problem and mil said he's having a biopsy for a liver problem. DH panicking when the bioposy is actually a blood test.

I don't buy this. DH and I don't get on. DS is british dh isn't. MIL very upset as husband has other girlfriend (for last 20 years). SIL is getting a divorce so won't be producing any more grandchildren for a long time if at all. MIL can't travel to uk unaided as she can't even get to her local train station alone let alone the local airport.

Is it normal for a 16 month to travel abroad without mother for 10 days. As dh doesn't earn enough I've got off my fat arse and got a job against my better judgement but I cna't take leave for three months. Why can't he wait for me to go to?

If his dad is that ill, OK for a few days (not happy) but this is a bloody blood test.

I feel this about making mil happy.

What say you?

follow your instincts and don't take him.

it does sounds like your mil is manipulating things.

I think my dh is very weak. Easily manipulated by mil and sil. We haven't got along for a while, partly as I had a mc and we drifted apart a bit and we were told we'd need IVF because of his infertility problems.

I ended up sacrificing my job to try and have a baby without IVF (and it worked( but the whole pregancy and birth and month or two after was dominated by having this 'prodigal child' and I felt like a surrogate to his mum. She came over at 4 weeks and was a complete cow, very much encourgaed by DH. I haven't moved on from this.

However, I'm the only one who has tried to save the marriage. But I'm now tired.

I simply think that

1. 16-18 months is tooo young
2. I think this is less about fil than about mil.
3. Offended and a little bit not trusting.
4. I've just gone back to work after two years in a brand new job and I'm struggling and ds is struggling with nursery and I miss him so much and vice versa - but I've gone back to work as dh doesn't earn enough

In terms of potential issues- if the shit hit the fan I wouldn't trust them as they are very poor and ignorant (like you wouldn't beleive( and this makes them very reactive. However, they are so weak and stupid I don't think they could really do anything. Eg. my husband thinks he's still in his country and that everyting here follows the laws there........ Um no - you'd be in for a nasty shock love.

I think:
you should not put up with being second to his mother.
He obviously doesn't respect you as he is encouraging his mother to be a cow to you.
He sounds like a bit of a pansy/mummy's boy, controlling git.
That you have been thru a lot and he has not been there for you at all.
You give up a lot to compensate for his inadequacies.

You would probably be better off without him, then he can go back to mummy and live under her skirts again

That I am too opinionated about it, but don't want to offend you, a just saying it as I see it.
I put up with a lot less from my DH and get furious about it.
Get mad, stick up for yourself. Don't let them bully you any more.

Sorry if I am being out of line, I of course don't know everything about your relationship.

But if you haave been worried about him abducting your son, probably encouraged by his mother. Do you really want to remain in that relationship.

Are you scared to try and get out??

BandO

God - I've always seen your advice on other threads and thought, wow, what a woman!

No, I don't think they would abduct, but I have to ensure I and ds are safe. I think ignorant people are dangerous as they tend to be reactive.

Yep, you're right - he hasn't respected me (he's made no mention of the possible cancerous mole I've having cut out of a plce where the sun don't shine next week - the second one in fact).

Am I sacered to leave. Yes, in a way, admission of failure. DH is not hansome, uneducated, very shy but what he had going for him was that is was known as a nice guy and that meant everything. I'm trying to find that person.

God I'm no angel. I take too much shit then it comes out in a torrent and I've a tongue like a knife.

Plus tried so long to have a child togehter, surely we should give it one more go.

On the other hand I'm hardly destitute - could live with my mother.

I'm worried about this trip setting a pattern. Going when he wants without me to see him mum on the pretext of something serious. And I'd miss my darling ds. He is too young. I'd have thought it would be OK ish at about 3.5 possibly, but he's a baby he can't even talk.

You'd be proud 0 I said what he watned to do was not normal. If he knew of anyone else who had done that. Why we couldn't go for a long weekend or wait 6 weeks when my work probabion period is finished and we could go as a family (reluctantly). he's now sulking. I'm also tempted to call his mum and tell her it's innapropriate and say how shocked I am that the suggestion was made.

FGS - when we were there in May she didn't make fil welcome to come and see ds!!!!!!!

I'm getting stronger. His birth certificate has been given to my mum for safekeeping - ds is UK citizen - he doesn't need any other nationality at present. Will also hide his passport if things get nasty.

It's easy to give advice when you are objective. I wish I could give myself some better advice sometimes, or at least follow my own advice, but sadly I think we all have something in our lives that we know should be different but don't know what to do about it, or whether we have the strength to do what we think we should.

Glad his passport is safe, and why do men always sulk like children. DH has tantrums as bad as DD1's sometimes
Oh well. I am glad to here that you give him the sharp edge when he pushes it. And believe me I am a great believer in giving it one more try for various reasons.
Have you tried some type of couple therapy or anything?

BTW I think I would have killed his mother had she been around for that long when either of the dd's were 4 weeks old, esp if she was a cow. My mil used to tut and roll her eyes at me over my parenting and such like, until I refused to go anymore, and that was only for a visit of 5 or 6 hrs tops.

Actually to be fair DD1 isn't that bad, DH can be much worse

Bando

I'm impressed. I just now think that diplomacy has got me nowhere and I've been played for a bit of a fool.

I'm starting to put her in her place a bit more. Thing is, she's not evil just incredibly ignorant in the sense she can't get to her nearest town alone, can't speak the language of her country (just a dialect) and is so scared of anything outside her world view (miniscule) so I do cut her a tiny bit of slack, but less so now! Hell, I've got nothing to lose. She's already got dh, not doing the same to ds! DS needs his freedom and fun and laughter.

Thanks for the advice.

KNow what. DH has just been civil. I think just giving it too him straight might just have worked. Probably because he was taking the piss in the first place!

However, ds documents are safe with me and me alone.........

You are all fabulous. Two hours ago I thought I was going bonkers, I now feel grounded and strong. Thanks again.

god don't let him go
sounds really dodgy to me tbh

DO NOT LET HIM GO.
I went through a rough patch with my DH after DD was born. MIL is a very manipulative lonely lady, and enjoys watching people argue and suffer! As much as I love my DH and we are doing fine now, I realised a terrible thing when I was at rock bottom. That MIL could manipulate him to do anything because he desparately needs her approval. I realised that if we divorced for some reason and then she got it into her head to fight for custody of DD (and the law supports that here in Japan), my husband would probably go for it.
Just donT let him go to this country without you. Anyway, hes 16 months old FFS, he needs his mother now. I put my DD (11 months) in a nursery last week for a couple of hours, for 4 afternoons. It was awful. I missed her so much, what if she was crying and I wasnT there for her to understand what she needed. Oh my god, just donT do it. ITs ridiculous of them to ask.

Sometimes men respond best to the telling it straight approach. DH used to annoy me and I bit my tongue and resentment set in. Now I just tell him and we figure it out.
I think he will perhaps, respect you more if you tell him straight, and why shouldn't you.

Your mil may well be trying to "get" your ds too. She probably looks at him as your DH's son, HER grandson. So beware. Make it clear to her too. But also think how you would feel towards a child of your ds's one day and that that is how she feels. Maybe she isn't trying to be controlling, maybe she just really loves him and wants to see him. In which case she can wait til you can all go out, but perhaps have a word with her and say I know you love ds and want to see him, but I don't feel comfortable with him going abroad without me for so long at this age.
If she is so controlling of your DH, her ds then surely, if anything, she will understand THAT.

Oh and call me BOM.

The FIL thing looks like a red herring. If he's sick he's hardly going to benefit from a visit from a toddler he hardly even knows. If he asked you on your own account it might be worth considering. So forget that aspect, and concentrate on what is right for your child. I'm sure you made the right decision not to let him go without you. I wouldn't have let mine stay overnight within easy driving reach without me at that age. Abroad - ten days - NO WAY!

My elder three have all grown up to be quite independent and good at travelling on their own, too, so it doesn't turn them into wimps.

i've left my 16 month olf ds with my mother for a week while I've gone travelling for work, but the idea of sending him to another country without me makes my blood run cold. You have no idea how he'll react to the flight, food etc and he has no way back. If

• on HIS own account, that should be of course. Shamefully, I still haven't woken up properly.

Oh bloody hell - I thought this crazy idea was over.

I've just started new job to add to the family coffers and I've got flu - so we're all struggling a bit.

DH just now said that I'm not well I should listen to him and if he took ds (at 17 months old) to his mum's abroad for 10 days in Oct this would help me. WTF. And to use that fact that I'm run down to seem like their doing me a bloody favour!!!

Again - I thought he now understood it is innappropriate. Does he still not understand.

I was waiting for MIL to call and I'd tell her what's what, but I thought just let it go it's OK now.

It's clearly not.

I clearly fail to communicate well - has anyone got a form of words (non confrontational) that I can use on these two TO MAKE THEM UNDERSTAND THAT 17 MONTH OLD BABIES ARE NOT TAKEN AWAY FROM THEIR MOTHER ABROAD. IT'S ABNORMAL.

Ignore their clearly ignorant attitude to your ds's needs. Tell dh that if hes SO desperate to see the father that abused him, then he can go on his own. When you say that fil was abusive, was it in a way that would prevent you wanting ds around him? Why would they think that either you or ds would benefit from being apart from wach other for such a long time? It seems very strange. Is it normail in their counrty for children to be taken away from mothers?

Seeing his sick father is just an excuse. It's for MIL. We haven't heard about fils so called illness since.

No - it's not normal - anywhere I don't think - and they are southern european where 'mama' rules - all mothers except me apparently.

I've spoken to my dad - he's going to have a word - I hate this - but dh's family rule everything and it's about time (after 15 years) that my family say something.

I'm so angry with MIL - just want her to call so I can explain in simple terms that even she'd understand how wrong it is to encourage your son to bring over a baby over the head of its mother to a foreign country.

I said I'd go too, but he doesn't want me to come! What on earth! Does MIL think she can snap her fingers and dh brings ds over - very convenient while I'm busy at work and can't go.

There's something seriously, seriously wrong with our marriage.

no way no way no way i wouldnt let dh take my 3 year old for trhat long no way

No - fil not abusive in that way - just a hateful father to dh. But he's not actually very ill at all just mils excuse to get dh and ds over without the person who gave her her only grandchild. ta!

The fact dh says he does not want you to come even though you have offered is a major issue IMHO. Why not?
I think 16 mo is far too young to leave his Mummy, especially for 10 days.
You mentioned you have his docs safe which is good, keep saying no - he is not going.
I have an 18 mo dd and I do have to leave her (with my dh) for up to 3 days each quarter when I am out of the country, but NO WAY in a million years would I ever let her out of the country without me.

On a separate note, yes you are right, it does sound like something is seriously wrong in your relationship. Sending you strength and if you do decide you want to do anything about this, you know will find lots of help/support/advice on here

mumsville I didnt have anything to add to this untill I saw your last post, doesnt the fact he doesnt want you to go not set alarm bells ringing I would be worried they wouldnt come back. I couldnt have let any of my children go at that age but I wouldnt have let them go at any age if I wasnt wellcome it would make me feel very uneasy

I don't normally post but I just wanted to say I agree with what maggymay has said...

Mumsville,

Why does your DH not want you to go too?! If your marriage has been under strain recently, your DH may be concerned about his contact with your DS and do something rash. The alarm bells are ringing here.

Don't let your DH take your DS. Do you live in England? Under the Child Abduction Act 1984, it is a criminal offence in England & Wales for any person connected with a child (which includes the other parent) to take or send the child out of the United Kingdom without the consent of any other person who has parental responsibility for the child. Your DH will be committing a criminal act if he takes your DS without your consent.

check out this website for full details:

www.officialsolicitor.gov.uk/os/icacu_law.htm

You don't mention what country your DH wants to take your DS to, but remember there are some countries which have a reciprocal agreement to return children under The Hague Convention and others that do not. Be extra wary if your DH's country is in the second category.

If your DS has an entitlement to dual nationality, your DH may be able to get DS a passport for his country from an embassy or consulate to take your DS abroad. I don't want to be alarmist, but hiding the UK passport may not be enough if your DH could get another one from his home state.

Gryf

Yep, you're right. I hate to even hide his passport - makes me feel bad somehow. He's from an EU country that has a reciprocal agreement. I don't think he's got a second nationality but then again I had two birth certificates and can't find one. I intend to contact their embassy to find out.

He won't go now but mil won't accept this. I plan to tackle her next time she calls - make very clear what is acceptable and not acceptable.