Feeling sad, probably need to let go

[famousforwrongreason]

I’m with a beautiful guy for a couple of years. The longer we’re together, the more he reveals but at the same time holds back if that makes sense.
Transpired he has lots of close women friendships he hasn’t been 100% about with me, including recent exes.
We don’t live together and don’t spend loads of time together due to other commitments but the time we have together is always awesome.
He is always kind and is clever , popular and funny and successful. We have amazing sex and connections on lots of levels and then he takes me to amazing places. He doesn’t always pay for me, I pay my way so it’s a pretty equal relationship. we both have lots of freedom, he def has more free time due to the age of his kids.
The stuff with me learning about the other women kind of happened organically, It was quite casual when we were first together so I never showed much interest, occasionally he’d drop names and some were exes but I didn’t think he was actively meeting them and in regular contact the longer our relationship went on and he never told me any different. He has close friendships with guys too but they don’t seem as important and meet-ups aren’t as regular.
occasionally he’d let slip a meeting or conversation that had happened with exes / women friends (most of whom he’s slept with) and sometimes left me a bit unclear about their relationships...since we got more serious he promised to be more open, typical backstory is that he was very hurt by some past relationships and people cheating that now he’s very cagey but is learning to open up more.
So he tells me more stuff in the spirit of being open and periodically big stuff slips out which leaves me wondering is he just a liar...
hes previously told me he’d never had same sex experiences or threesomes or anything like that, this then changed later on in conversation to ‘not really...’ and More recently he told me he’d had one gay experience years ago but doesn’t remember much as was very drunk.
Then last week he said he’s had some ‘gay’ experiences with different guys and loved it but is definitely heterosexual. he also said I’m the first person he’s ever told.
Not a problem either , I’ve also had gay experiences and I’m pretty open so I understand that.
Then more recently, when drunk he’s told me during sex that he would actually like to have more gay experiences , I asked him if he’d do it again and he was very affirmative, then quickly adding that he’d only like to do it with me there
And then dressing it up as a swinging kind of experience which I could get with but the more he talks about it the more he focuses on the guy on guy aspect. As well as wanting me to give him some kind of lesbian show and basically have a bit of an orgy.
He’s definitely sexually interested in me and (by his behaviour when out and things he’s said or I’ve observed) he’s clearly very interested in women. Our sex life on the whole is exciting and I definitely turn him on.
Recently I’ve learned of some parties he’s been at that I couldn’t attend where people were very ‘free and easy’ and he assured me he was ‘good’... I have no way of disproving this and tbf I don’t want to go down the route of evidence gathering.
So it all sounds ok re the liberal sex life but but there are other bits which just make me a bit doubtful, like half truths and ‘forgetting’ to tell me about meet ups and parties and getting into situations when out without me where he could have had sex , offers on a plate , but chose to stay faithful and some quite derogatory language about some of the women who are trying it on with him , some etc
I just feel weird. Writing it all down sounds terrible but Obviously I’ve just condensed the bits that make me nervous...there’s other aspects which are great. I’ve read a few posts on here today about lap dancing, topless bars, strip clubs, porn etc and it’s a very mixed response.
I am liberal but see myself as a feminist and also feel I mitt be having the mickey being slightly taken out of me because I’m liberal.
We’ve had umpteen discussions as this stuff really rankles but he always talks a good talk and I end up feeling like a controlling paranoid banshee!
Just sounding off really.

Well why change it, if it’s working for you ? Do you mind him seeing other people if you don’t know about it ?

It’s not working for me, hence the post. Ostensibly, things are great but as soon as I drill down past the surface there’s all these things that make me uneasy, doubting him and doubting myself and in turn making me unhappy.
I posted here to try and get a handle on things I guess.

I am probably not clear because I’m listing the positives as well to give it context

No I bet that you are not happy deep down . That’s why I was gently challenging your “ but he’s great really “ rhetoric.

I wonder if deep down it’s

“ He must be great - he meets lots of my criteria and everyone else says he’s great. So if it’s not him it must be me. Maybe I’m too picky. Maybe I’m so damaged by my past, I can’t recognise a good man when I see one . I’m “ cool” so why does his past ( and maybe his present ) bother me so much ? “.

And “ do I have the right to have boundaries ? I’m a single parent with kids - can I afford to be fussy ? “ .

Ha! The old double bluff eh?
You have hit the nail on the head. I hadn’t explicitly thought the single mum element but it must be there in my subconscious.

The other element is : if it’s draining me this much how can I be present , fully present for my kids, my job, my own life and hobbies and interests etc and the honest truth is that I’m not being.
I suffered a huge bereavement back in the summer and things have changed beyond measure since then. It’s not all him but he wasn’t ‘there’ for me when I most needed him, he said I wasn’t clear enough about my needs and I was very angry with him for a long time, it really impacted (I think) on how the bereavement affected me and my grieving process was all tied up with doubting myself and doubting him because he hadn’t exactly lied but was dishonest about where he was and who he was with as my needs at the time were an inconvenience. He admitted this later on and that he’d only have been there for me out of ‘duty’ had I express asked him but because I didn’t expressly ask him he didn’t come anyway.
so that also colours a lot of my thinking. I promised to be clearer and he promised to behave more in line with how committed he says he is.
Since that shock I have not been able to apply myself properly to anything but the basics and have given up most things I love. I go to work every day, I come home deal with the kids almost automatically and if I’m completely honest save my best energy for him because he/ our relationship takes me out of my daily grind and the love, laughter, sex, affection, fun times, conversations etc give me everything I crave all week when I don’t see him, bring me closer to him and erase (temporarily) the feelings of sadness and loneliness, paranoia and being understimulated in all areas.
Prior to the summer I was very active, motivated , fit, a stone or two lighter, and I’m a completely different woman from the one je first met so I almost feel he’s kind of vindicated if he does ‘look’ elsewhere too because I currently find myself quite disgusting
He’s the one who talks about us as a longterm thing whereas I’m much more cautious and cagey.

“ He must be great - he meets lots of my criteria and everyone else says he’s great. So if it’s not him it must be me. Maybe I’m too picky. Maybe I’m so damaged by my past, I can’t recognise a good man when I see one . I’m “ cool” so why does his past ( and maybe his present ) bother me so much ? “.

This ^^ with bells on. All of this!

The ones that go on about how they'd never cheat and have been cheated on before, yada yada, are always big old cheats. You don't need to say all that if you're a normal person.

He wasn't there for you when you really needed him.

Never mind all the shite about how it was your fault for not expressing this clearly. Bollocks. If you love someone and they are hurting you want to be with them and help them ease the pain. And you don't see this as a duty. Whatever else he may or may not have done, he isn't the loving caring partner you like to think he is. That would be enough for me.

If he had been the one experiencing a bereavement would you have reduced contact, lied about where you were and then blamed him for your lack of compassion??

Sorry, he's grooming you.

You're falling for all that "I was cheated on so I know what it's like and would never do it" bullshit.

@category12 I kinda thought that too a few times but didn’t really believe it of him , he seems / seemed so believable and eloquent and moral in lots of ways until I started putting all the little things together.

@Monr0e I had written a long response but dropped the phone
Anyway I’d do whatever I could to be ‘there’ for a loved one who’s hurting, regardless of whether I think it warrants it or not.
At the time I didn’t get much from people around me other than platitudes and friends attitude about bf’s uselessness were kind of ‘well xxx is gone now (eg dead) so what can anyone do? And you hadn’t told him clearly how bad it’s affected you, Bf might as well carry on with his plans’ and I felt like a demanding drama queen.
The only person on my wavelength was a guy who’s been trying to get with me for years so I couldn’t really rely on his judgement either!

@VanGoghsDog urgh to ‘grooming’!! That sounds vile!
Do you think it’s done consciously, I can’t believe it of him, feels really insidious if true.
I guess I’ve been very loving, understanding and accommodating so maybe on a subconscious level I’ve ticked all his boxes in terms of being a mug...
It’s so hard to see this clearly. All the negative behaviours alongside all the loving stuff.
It’s so confusing. I’ve had to put him on the back burner while I try and get my life back and make sense of this stuff and he’s been really confused and hurt and constantly asking to see me, telling me how much he loves and misses me although this is cooking a bit now as I think he senses I’m pulling away.
I would give anything just to forget all this and go back for comfort love fun and hot sex , it would be so easy but then I’m denying myself the chance to recuperate fully and see if ending the relationship will give me back my identity

I think it is done consciously I'm afraid.

He's trying to get you to expand your sexual boundaries by drip feeding new information in a way that makes each thing seem less or a small thing. If he had told you the whole lot at once you would have been far more wary, as you are being now, and as you feel writing it all down.

I think stepping back and looking at the bigger picture is a good idea. The bottom line though is that if he or his behaviour makes you feel uncomfortable and if when you bring it up he makes you feel unreasonable, it's not a healthy relationship.

Thank you @vangoghsdog I’d like to think I’m more switched on than that but clearly I’m not! It’s easy to ignore the drip drip effect of the red flags when you’re falling in love and passion and having a truckload of fun!
I have started to see more things today with hindsight and I think they’re all glaring but he presents so well in many ways that they’re easy to discount.
Also I’m no angel and had a wayward past and still a wild streak so I guess I measured it against how I’d feel if someone judged me the way I’m judging him.

Urgh. Found him out in a blatant lie tonight. And a really easy one to be honest about too. I’m sure he’s trying to avoid a difficult conversation and it’s possible that it’s quite innocent but barefaced lies make it worse.
Literally lied to my face. I gave him a few chances to tell the truth, he evaded every time. He has no idea I know or how I’d know so wasn’t even suspicious that I was fishing.
I’m not even going to challenge it. What’s the effing point? Have spent the last few days grieving for him/us and getting ready to say goodbye. Feeling guilty because I’m not 100% sure of my feelings or reasons to leave. I’m so angry and upset right now. I have been crying on and off all day. It’s not just about him, it is, obviously a lot about him and the good stuff we shared but it’s also about losing me and how much I’ve changed and lost and if it has all been a lie it hurts even more that I gave him my energy when I didn’t have it to give.

I’m sorry, you sound really disappointed in him. As well as sad about the end of your hope that you might have a future with him.

Why do you feel you are losing you ? Do you mean the time and energy you gave to the relationship? That’s not gone, you have grown and learned through it. You know more about what you want next time.

If you are not sure about ending , it you don’t have to do anything now. You can just stall for time - tell him you are busy at work. Or better still , that you are coming down with a bug.

A couple of weeks without him might clear your head a bit.

Do you have anyone you can confide in in RL - friend or family member ? Or are they all seduced by his charm ?

If you were fine with enjoying great sex and an open relationship, honest on both sides and with respect to your physical and emotional health, I’d say crack on - have fun. But this clearly isn’t working for you. He drip feeds information rather than being open about his sexuality (he’s bi, I’m guessing) and that’s not respectful. If you think an honest conversation is possible, I’d say it may be worth it, but if the set-up brings you more unhappiness than joy, it’s not worth it. He seems very unlikely to change, only to become more secretive if he senses you don’t like how he is.

I'll be brief, I think he's full of bullshit.
He says, does what he thinks you want, but trips up every now and again, and is very gently trying to find out if you will do what he wants!
He's about as transparent as a muddy puddle.

Thank you for replies guys. I’ve had him at arms length for a while. He must know what’s coming.
The set up does bring me occasions of joy but If I’m second guessing him all the time and he’s working hard to only show me a filtered version of everything then it’s only superficially joyous. It was a lot more fun when we were casual, neither then cared what the other was up to or how they’d react. Should have bipod it in the bud at the first big red flag which was a few months in. Blinkered by love/lust and not trusting my instincts
Yeah losing my energy and time and confidence and self esteem, self respect and generally my life (not all down to him, other stuff as well but my energy has mostly been focused on ‘us’)

@Double3xposure , yes, very disappointed, in both of us. Desperately sad. Honestly the times we’re together are immense. I know I wasn’t dreaming it. Huge physical and emotional and mental connection but ultimately he felt entitled to have his cake and eat it. I think he wanted both a stable longterm relationship as well as the feee and single life with a harem and a smorgasbord of earthly delights.
The right woman will have the time of their life with him. I can see why he is attractive to younger women with less responsibilities

Many of us ( including me ) haven’t reacted to the red flags until we were married and had kids together. You are doing better than most.

We women are socialised to try harder / work at it / make excuses/ disregard our own boundaries until we are so emotionally invested ( or financially dependent ) that it’s hard to leave.

@Double3xposure oh no don’t bestow me with praise for any wisdom, I have married , had kids and divorced a man with multiple red flags. It appears that I’m good at spotting them, not so good at appropriate responses.
In this most recent case I have reached the end of my tether and have finally ended things. He told me Im probably not in the right place to make big decisions at the moment... that’s kind of all I needed to hear to drive home how little he actually respects me.
I’m very sad but also quite relieved. Despite loving and missing all the wonderful bits, Once I truly realised it was a sham I could never go back. Clarity is a bittersweet gift!

Why do we think it’s ok to disregard our own boundaries? Do all women do it or just people who haven’t learned to be resilient?

So you dumped him and he refused to accept your decision ? Classic . “ Silly little girl, doesn’t know her own mind “.

Feeling “ relieved “ rather than devastated or heartbroken is interesting, isn’t it ?

I think that women are socialised to think that it’s wrong to have boundaries, we must always put others ( particularly men ) first and ‘be kind’. To others of course, not to ourselves.

Because patriarchy IMO.

Yes @Double3xposure that’s exactly what happened. He Also once again reduced all ‘our’ problems down to difficult things I’ve had to face this last year. No mention of the glaring omissions and out and out lies and complete disrespect which did nothing but exacerbate my actual problems.
Thank god he got careless and opened my eyes and thank god I stopped making excuses and allowances.
We’d split a few times and normally at this stage be having huge arguments where I’d be outlining my case nd he’d be batting it all back. I have absolute resolve this time. He no doubt expects me to cave again but I’m not sure he realises exactly how much of his true self I’ve really’seen’ this time. Previously I’ve never been 100% sure, this time I know!

And yes to patriarchy. He really is much more of a misogynist than I ever realised. He is very clever and bright and skilled and a complete chameleon!