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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Trying not to dislike my brother

49 replies

EndDays · 04/03/2020 18:48

I feel disloyal even saying this, but sometimes I really struggle with feeling like I dislike my brother. He is lovely in lots of ways, but there are things about his life I just struggle to accept and not get involved in. I think he is probably a cocklodger and I feel sorry for his girlfriend. I struggle with wanting to stick up for her a lot. I always remind myself my loyalty should be to him but if he was not my blood I'd always be on the woman's side. Especially as I feel like he's taking the piss out of her a lot. I don't struggle with these issues with other people who have had issues, but it's like it would be easier to accept a major mental illness or a serious one time fuck up than this just low level poor treatment of his girlfriend. We have nearly had a row a couple of times where he's asked my opinion and not liked what I said so I try and stay out of it now but it's getting harder because he gets really annoyed if me and my family members don't agree with him (because we should be loyal to him) and even suggest he might be being a bit shit to the girlfriend. I feel like I'm biting my tongue a lot and I just want to wrap her in cuddles, tell her she deserves more and be a 'sister' to another 'sister' not be stuck in the middle as an actual sister. I get it's not my place, but i am struggling to empathise with him (even though that's usually my natural instinct to try to understand).

OP posts:
mbosnz · 04/03/2020 19:00

I tend to say to people, don't ask my opinion if you are not prepared for it to be one you won't enjoy hearing. And I'll never say anything that condones a person treating another person poorly, I don't care if it's my sibling, my parent or Patrick bleeding Stewart (although I'm sure he never would!).

And just because we're related to a person doesn't mean to say that we don't see their flaws, or that we have to mindlessly agree, endorse and accept everything they do, or even that we have to particularly like them (or they us!).

Original poster
EndDays · 04/03/2020 19:06

@mbosnz

I worry that I've seen a side of him I can't ever un see. Not least the things I know about, borrowing money not paying it back, quitting jobs for no reason, cheating, and basically treating her life the "mrs indoors" to keep house, cook, clean, pay all the bills while her gets to be Jack the lad. Writing that down maybe it's not so complex.

OP posts:
Rojelio · 04/03/2020 19:17

I get ya, I've had conflicting feelings about my sister for years and have now come to the conclusion that I don't think I do really like her, it's taken me a long time and a lot of leeway from me before I got there though..
If he wasn't your brother would you like him? You can't pick ya family and all that... ask him to stop asking to have for your opinion as each time he does he doesn't like what he hears so you'd rather not give it if he is going to be rude to you once you do.

Original poster
EndDays · 04/03/2020 19:19

I feel like he keeps putting me in the middle. I'd rather not know and be able to distance myself that way.

OP posts:
ferando81 · 04/03/2020 19:20

It’s very easy to spot faults in other people’s relationships.I don’t believe in loyalty no matter what and your brother shouldn’t guilt trip you.If he doesn’t want the truth he shouldn’t ask for it.You can dislike your brother but still love him .People don’t really want the truth .I have a cousin who was suicidal after his wife left him ,his sister really looked after him .Since then he has got back on his feet ,new girlfriend .His controlling behaviour persists and treats his sister like crap now he doesn’t need her.
People don’t really change and even if you helped the girlfriend she would likely stay with him .

Zaphodsotherhead · 04/03/2020 19:25

I think you can love someone without really liking them, if you see what I mean. You love the person that you once knew, the person you believe they could be, underneath, but you hate the behaviour that is making them the person they are currently.

It's how I deal with some of the ways my (adult) kids behave. I love them, of course, but sometimes I can't help thinking that they are occasional dicks.

mbosnz · 04/03/2020 19:29

You don't have to condone his behaviour and you are right, you can't un-see it. He's showing a very unpleasant side of his character, and he doesn't get to demand that you condone it just because he's your brother. So, you can always say, you know you're not going to like what I have to say, so why are you bringing it up?

Original poster
EndDays · 04/03/2020 19:59

He tries to use me to back him up in his rows or asks me WWYD? It's getting harder not to say LEAVE. I would love to see him stand on his own two feet, love himself more, and have a decent relationship. I want the same for his girlfriend. I don't know how to talk to either of them about it. He leaves me with her a lot when he's being crap. Like I'll help him patch things up and help her feel better about herself. Or they come to me together ask me do you know how we can learn to trust each other again? I don't believe they can (or should) tbh

OP posts:
mbosnz · 04/03/2020 20:00

You are not their relationship counsellor. It's okay to say not my circus, not my monkeys, if you need relationship counselling, go to someone qualified and pay for it.

Original poster
EndDays · 04/03/2020 20:02

I don't want to start avoiding family occasions etc. But I can see it's going to blow up at some point there's only so long I can Pussy foot around it. I've been in tears the last 3x

OP posts:
Original poster
EndDays · 04/03/2020 20:11

@mbosnz

Oh I have told them many times to get therapy, separately or together. Always some reason they can't. I think my brother thinks that's what women were put on this earth for to fix his problems. Other family members have also said its tricky being with them, and when me and my brother have disagreed have stepped in and told us not to argue with each other (I wasn't even going to I was just trying to assert my own boundaries). It's like because his gf and the other women in my family accept his ways I have to accept being disrespected, bite my tongue and accept the status quo too. When the feminist in me wants to call him out on his entitled misogyny. Perhaps that's too strong? I don't know I need to find a way to talk about this or it's going to get worse I know. We have fallen out before regarding his conduct with women I thought I could just separate myself from that side of him but I keep getting dragged back into it and I think it overflows from his relationship into the way he treats all women now.

OP posts:
category12 · 04/03/2020 20:20

Stop getting so involved. Why on earth are you helping him patch things up etc?

Just say "I don't want to be involved, I'm not your relationship counsellor" and don't hang around with her when he's treating her like shit - it's not your job to keep her sweet for him, and you're doing her a disservice.

Original poster
EndDays · 04/03/2020 20:31

@category12

They have a row and he just walks off. I'll usually try to change the subject. But I'll ask about her work or something and it's always affected by him. Her life plans, dependent on his whims. Then when he comes back he's cross with me that instead of talking to her about how it's not his fault it's because he had a shitty start in life or whichever other excuse is the current one, and instead have just highlighted another part of her life he's causing unhappiness in. That's what I mean it'd be easier just not to see them, but can't always be avoided. Sometimes I think my brother wants a fight to be honest.

OP posts:
Original poster
EndDays · 04/03/2020 20:35

Or it's like he uses me as an excuse to start a row with her. Like by asking me if I think he should go travelling even if she doesn't want to. I said yeah I think you should see the world before you have DCs and he then says to her that I said I think he should dump her and go to Thailand. Really not what I said. Then she says to me eg. "Why do you hate me do you think we shouldn't be together" no, I don't hate you "but you don't think we should be together?" Aargh not what I said. I wish they'd just talk to each other. I used to think they were just immature, but they are in early 30s now and it's still continuing

OP posts:
category12 · 04/03/2020 20:38

Well, they shouldn't be together, it sounds fucking miserable for her.

Just leave them to it and stop engaging.

user43696212 · 04/03/2020 20:39

why don't you let their relationship collapse ?

why are you trying to rescue a relationship that isn't yours to participate in and clearly doesn't work or seem long term?

Original poster
EndDays · 04/03/2020 20:40

I have got stronger at saying "I'm really not getting involved" but then he'll just keep trying to get a rise out of me. So I end up saying "I'm not continuing this conversation" or similar then he shouts and we get told not to argue/fight like little kids squabbling. I think I probably need to just try and tell him when I'm calm and he is (though he always seems to be in a mood like if you don't tread softly he'll blow up). I don't know think he'd be violent, but he can be nasty and I don't want it to go there.

OP posts:
EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 04/03/2020 20:41

The phrase "I love you, but I hate your attitude and your behaviour" has been my friend in similar circumstances.

Original poster
EndDays · 04/03/2020 20:43

@user43696212

I'm only like third or fourth choice of rescuer. They only come to me when everybody else is busy/not answering them. Because my brother knows we fell out before because j got sick of it so that could happen again. But if I don't toe the party line (keeping everybody sweet) then I get jumped on by the rest of the family. It's like we are all at the mercy of his moods. I don't want to think of him as an abusive man but maybe he is? I don't know

OP posts:
Iflyaway · 04/03/2020 20:45

Could you put it into paragraphs?
Reading a load of text is off-putting, to give a reply....

Original poster
EndDays · 04/03/2020 20:47

Mumsnet seems to delete my paragraphs sorry

OP posts:
RandomMess · 04/03/2020 20:57

Basically your DB sounds toxic and has the whole family afraid of him, he's using all of you to justify his awful attitude.

He kind of cocklodges with you all in a weird way...

Why do you all take this shit from him, what are you all scared off? Seriously unhealthy dynamics in your family...

Original poster
EndDays · 04/03/2020 21:09

@RandomMess

Yeah I think this is why I stopped speaking to him. Then we made up for rest of the families sake but now it's like I'm treading on egg shells again just because they are all used to that still. Whereas because I've had time without him I see things clearer. I told him I thought the way he treated somebody (a woman) was really shit, he retaliated got really nasty, I went NC because I was hurt I think. Some people made his life unpleasant and I maybe could have made things easier (the woman's family) but didn't want to stick up for somebody who had been so nasty (brother or not). I think I might have been FOGged now because somehow it ended up that we'd both been nasty/disloyal so should make up, but now its as though me and him are as bad as each other and I have to toe the line and keep making peace. I'm not sure I should have apologised for it in the first place. Because now I'm always having this loyalty test

OP posts:
Original poster
EndDays · 04/03/2020 21:12

Basically I was asked to confirm whether I thought he'd cheated on this woman or not. And she was the OW in the first place

OP posts:
RandomMess · 04/03/2020 21:13

Find a way to shift the power back. You cannot spend the rest of your life being the scapegoat in the family...

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