DH, his friend am I wrong here?

[FairlyDusted]

Been with DH 6 years, 2nd marriage for both of us.
We're middle aged, all DCs have left home and all is usually good.

DH has a group of friends from years back as do I since they met life has happened and they now all live in different parts of the country. When they all get together they usually spend a day/overnight together.

From the first time I met him I was sure that DH's best friend also eventually best man at our wedding didn't like me. I made a real effort and wasn't sure what I'd done wrong.

Over time I kept trying but it became clearer that this friend really didn't like me. Subtle things, snide comments, ignoring me, verbally unpleasant, criticising me, insinuating that I only married DH for his money DH earns more than me but my salary is good too and many other instances.

Friend often belittles and undermines his own wife too, I get on well with his wife. I really like Friend's wife and we get on well.

I've been making an effort for DH sake. Friend and one other friends from their group stayed on Friday and Saturday night they were going to a rugby match on the Saturday. Before they stayed me & DH prepared the house, meals, I gave them a lift to the train station and picked them up and other things to make their stay easy.

When they were all together I mostly kept out of their way, at mealtimes and other times we were together Best Man Friend was making piss taking faces at other staying friend when I spoke. He cut me off in conversation a few times, told me a new item of furniture I had chosen was 'crap' was generally rude and undermining. All while DH was distracted so without his knowledge.

At previous times I've told DH about things his friend has said and done but DH has said that the Friend 'has a funny way' 'is odd' 'doesn't think before he speaks sometimes' etc. DH doesn't like the way that friend speaks to his own wife and thinks she will leave when their DCs leave home.

After their visit I told DH what had been happening, he believed me, we talked about it and DH said he was going to rethink the blokes meet ups and do things differently in future and that he has chosen to be with me and that's most important.

Then DH told me about an email he'd received from Friend bemoaning the fact that they couldn't have a lads holiday together, just the two of them they have only once or twice been for a weekend together in all the years they've known each other, also Friend and family don't have much money.

Friend has always been the driving force behind the group meet ups, he organises them and wants them to increase. He had mentioned June. I told DH that I won't stop him seeing his friends but that I would like him to put some distance between himself and Friend.

DH is a natural peacemaker and non confrontational.

AIBU to think that it's not ok to visit someone, take advantage of their hospitality and be incredibly rude and childish?

What would be a reasonable future course of action for me here?

Sorry that was so long, I was trying not to drip feed.

The friend sounds incredibly rude. Absolutely horrible. Your Dh sounds like a complete dope if he (a) hasn’t noticed, and (b) hasn’t torn a strip off his friend for it. I’d never speak to a friend ever again if they treated my husband like that.

Well you're nicer than me OP, that's for sure.

He would be banned from the house and I wouldn't be spending a second more in his presence after... One.last.time.

Your bloke should have your back. I would think less of mine if he allowed me to be treated like crap, even if I have a gob in my head and not afraid to use it.

That's how I feel Honeyroar that's what I would do too! I'm frustrated that DH hasn't at least, I don't think he has.

However, the Friend is very subtle and the digs could often be seen in an alternative way. It's like he's gaslighting me.

Doesn't matter. A dig can be asked to be repeated. Any nasty shit on the sky can be repeated if you ask. I'd do the confrontation and ask him what he 'means by that'. Repeatedly.

I've said that Friend isn't coming back to the house again and I won't see him again Gamerchick.

I could message Friend, copying DH in but I don't want to upset DH.
I didn't say anything while the friends were here because I was stunned and I didn't want to cause an argument in my own home.

I wouldn't waste anymore time on him but if you have to meet again I would deliberately ignore him and treat him like the s**the that he is. It's surprisingly effective and the only way someone like that will respect you.

Why don't you want to upset your bloke though? He doesnt care you're being upset by this friend does he? The friend doesn't care that he's making you feel uncomfortable in your own home?

Seriously, this is your personal space. How dare he!

I think refusing to see him again and explaining to your husband why is all you can do.
What a vile man.

OP the 'friend' is probably just jealous. You need to call him out on his behaviour when he makes those awful comments with something like "what exactly is that supposed to mean? Or I think that comment was really rude "etc

If he does come over I wouldn't go out your way to be polite. He'll soon get the message.

Tell your DH to ghost him, if he doesn't see him often anyway it won't affect him much but will make you a lot happier

I'd just say "are you threatened by me?" or "are you jealous of me?"with a smile each and every single time. People like this hate it and they soon learn to stop once you highlight to everyone else what a dickhead they are.

Your DH is a dick for letting someone speak to you like that and still prioritise the friendship... and You are equally stupid for letting someone away with speaking to you like that.. all this time.. WTF

We don't see them that much BumbleBeee69 I've seen them once or twice a year for 6 years. At least the first few times it was indirect, not as bad as it has become and tbh I wasn't sure whether he just had a weird sense of humour or something.

One time I met him was at our wedding, once we went to stay with them overnight before a flight, one time was the time I'm referring to here. I've cancelled two visits to them. That's 8 of a possible guessing here 10 or 12 situations.

As they live a long way away we go to stay when we visit and I'm not about to cause an argument in someone else's house either, at least not without serious provocation. If the provocation had been serious then DH would have noticed before now anyway.

This time possibly because he was here without his wife and he had the other friend as an 'audience' to impress he was much worse than before.

As I say, it is subtle, all done when DH was busy, in the loo, stacking the dishwasher, talking to the other friend etc. So I don't blame him for not noticing and reacting at the time. It's now what DH does next that I wonder about.

Fwiw the third friend's reactions were not positive towards Twat Best Man Friend when he was being a shit to me.

I've already made it clear that I'm not going to see TBMF anywhere again so what I could or should say next is academic, I won't be seeing him to say anything.

I don't understand why TBMF is like it, it's almost like sexual jealousy or possessiveness. It's weird.

That sounds difficult OP. It's easy to let something slide when it's subtle and creeps up on you, because none of the comments in themselves trigger a fight back response but by the end of the night they have!
It's a slow wind up technique. I bet he uses this strategy on his wife.

He's like the mole at end of The Incredibles (film 1) call him "The Underminer" from now on! Make a joke out of him!!

It sounds like your DH understood and has your back but now is struggling to follow through .

What do you mean by put some distance between them?

?= not see him until about a years time?? i.e. June is too soon...
?= he doesn't stay at your house again?? I.e. until when ?.. or ever?
Or the DH calls him out in it?

Anyway you look at it, is it that you want DH to call him out on it?

Also, a holiday away with the two of them isn't 'a boys weekend', it's merely 'a weekend', a holiday without their wives. A boys holiday takes 3 or more!!
The other friend wants to go away with it his wife or family despite it leaving his own family short. Such fun for middle aged men to do that? Friend sounds selfish.

Correction (stupid autocorrect)

I typed *without his wife and family.. (not 'with it) in last paragraph

Look up “medium chill” on the fog website. Great strategy for just this type of situation.
My MIL used to do exactly the same. We stopped it by not trying to stop her doing it in any way but leaving it with her. If someone wants to be passive aggressive, they will be. He probably isn’t even aware of his own behaviour. A counsellor suggested to my DH that we give his Mum a score - we split it into two parts: a score out of 10 for effort (ooh that’s a 10...she really went for the jugular with that comment) and an impact score (ouch...that hurt...it’s at least an 8). It was amazing how it worked - within 4/5 visits we realised we forgot to do the scoring because she hadn’t bothered us and now she doesn’t do the behaviour because it’s no longer meeting I’m her subconscious needs. We also meet out and about in neutral locations as being in our house or her house exaggerated both behaviour and impact we found.

We have a couple of friends of my DH who we do it with too. They do it from a place of damage and are largely oblivious to what they do and have many good qualities too that my DH values. It isn’t personal...they do everywhere. I medium chill them and occasionally we “give the a score”. My DH and I carry our own damage that our friends kindly accommodate.

Oops - A few typos

Didshereally you're right when you say that it has been subtle and has crept up on us. At first I wondered whether it was just me wanting to be accepted but it's not me, TBMF is being very strange and he really upped the ante when he came to stay.

I'm not sure what DH means when he talks about putting distance between them and doing things differently. I do know that DH won't be meeting the friend in June and that he's been talking about seeing his friends separately instead of as a group.

As this happened recently I'm giving DH time to digest it all and decide what he will do next.

TBMF isn't talking about a lads weekend away, he wants DH to go with him for a fortnight somewhere long haul. It would cost thousands. We could afford it but TBMF and his family do not have much money, their annual holiday is a week or two in a caravan in the UK, not out of choice but because they can't afford anything more.

If DH did go away with TBMF that would take money from out annual holiday budget and use up a significant amount of his annual leave. Besides, DH says that if he's going on a holiday like that with anyone it will be me.

It rankles too that TBMF overtly suggests that I'm a gold digger especially as I earn more than TBMF does.

My feeling is and DH says he agrees is that it's not really about TBMF going on holiday with him, it's more about possessiveness, jealousy and some other weird stuff that I can't really articulate at the moment.

If I didn't know better I'd say it is most akin to a sexual jealousy. If that's what it is then it's certainly not reciprocated by DH!

Although he has made it personal I think it could have been anyone that DH had met and TBMF wouldn't approve and then would treat them badly.

It's easy to read a post on here and say 'well I'd have told him to fuck off out of my house' but the reality is that we none of us know how we will react in a situation. When both friends were here I was genuinely shocked, I went upstairs for most of the Friday evening and had a sort of did I imagine that moment. When it continued the next day I knew I hadn't.

As I've already said I've made it clear that TBMF is no longer welcome in my home and I don't want to see him again.

As for DH I don't know whether I think it's ok to demand that he never sees his friend again. No matter how much of a shit TBMF has been telling DH who he can and cannot see smacks of being controlling and it gives TBMF further ammunition to show how unreasonable I surely am.

For sure I do feel that whatever I say or do about this friend will be wrong.

Thank you Zogtastic I will look up the 'medium chill' and discuss it with DH. Thank you.

Is it possible that he’s secretly had a crush on your husband all this time?

Cos he SOUNDS a bit like it

Sorry, wrong thread

He’s either very unhappily married and envious that your husband has had a second chance at marriage with you, or he’s harbouring an unreciprocated crush on your husband. Either way, it’s unhealthy. I think that your husband should steer clear for both their sakes as well as yours.

As for DH I don't know whether I think it's ok to demand that he never sees his friend again. No matter how much of a shit TBMF has been telling DH who he can and cannot see smacks of being controlling and it gives TBMF further ammunition to show how unreasonable I surely am.

Nah. This needs to stop right now.

That’s how bullys operate - subtle, snide, confusing comments that if you took major offence at each individual incident you might look unhinged or over sensitive.

They are calibrated to be exactly that.

But if you look at the pattern, the totality - it is crystal clear what is happening.

He sounds like he is a cunt to his wife. That’s enough to bin him already.

Get him gone out of both of your lives.
Listen to your gut about his jealousy of your DH. You are not imagining it. But I wouldn’t waste your head space trying to work him out - just take action.

Your DH should have your back. Get him to deal with it. I would express my wish that he didn’t see him again as he is v disrespectful to you and highly manipulative.

If he'd acted like that in my house I would be saying who the fuck do you think you're talking to and why do you think it's ok to behave like this and take the piss out of my hospitality? Then kicked his arse out of the door! I know not everyone is confrontational though and he sounds like the sort of person who would feign faux innocent and say you're imagining things. Or put his hands up and say I don't know what you're talking about?
Just refuse to have anything to do with him and tell your DH to be honest with his friend about why you don't want anything to do with him.
Sometimes some people need knocking down a peg or two and I hate the excuse 'it's just how he is' like it gives them an allowance for being a nasty twat.