Trying to sort my emotional/mental health... advice welcome!

[LordGarmadon]

I am the adult daughter of an emotionally immature mother. I have siblings and we all have our own families. My parents are married.

DM had ongoing mild-moderate-severe mental health difficulties throughout our childhood. We were looked after by a grandparents quite a lot of the time.

In adulthood, we each have our own problems: one sibling is under the care of an outpatient psychiatric unit, children are on social service's radar, history of violence towards us siblings, parents, & partners. Other siblings are insecure and range from apathy to overly emotional.

My relationship with my parents is fairly good in adulthood and I enjoy their company. DM is stable but can struggle to regulate her emotions when things are serious! I feel like I'm the "carer" and am often used as the family counsellor/cook/child care/etc... that's all fine, I don't mind looking after people.

However, in the past, I've had very low expectations/standards as to how people treat me. I've tolerated violence and aggression from a sibling, bullying in the workplace, awful behaviour from ILs... people think of me as "resilient" but I'm not, I have very low self esteem and self confidence.

I have suffered in the past and have seriously contemplated suicide on two occasions... I do not have feelings like that now.

Most people wouldn't have the slightest inkling of how bad I've felt. I'm a professional with a good career, I'm fun socially, my work colleagues love me, we have hobbies and do lots of activities, I even have a meal plan!!

I've got a catalogue of self help books but I still find things quite difficult.

I have a very poor maternal role model and have no idea if I'm ruining my own children's mental health. Today, my children refused to eat lunch and I felt pissed off so I told them we wouldn't be going out to a cafe (a treat) this afternoon. They sheepishly came to find me with empty plates and apologies. I felt like scum... I remembered feeling guilty and wanting to please my own mother in childhood.

I don't know what I want from posting... I don't want to continue a cycle of crap parenting.

NB: long time poster with recent name change.

I'm now off to take the kids to the cafe but I will return!

Oh Op plz don’t be hard on yourself. I don’t have advice as I’m in a very similar situation but didn’t want to read and run.

I don’t see why you would call yourself a crap parent from what you posted.

Your not a crap parent, you were teaching your children that you had made food and it wasn’t to be wasted just because they didn’t want it
They may of not wanted to eat it as they knew they were going to the cafe later
Kids are clever😀 they knew themselves they were wrong. That’s all

With all you’ve been through your doing bloody well to even want to be doing family things and going out
Don’t take it to heart

Thank you for the reassurance.

I find it difficult to work out if I'm doing the right thing ... I cancelled the cafe trip because I felt pissed off/not the right reason.

I generally think I'm doing ok by them but then sometimes I really mess it up.

A few weeks ago there was an incident with the violent sibling and I felt quite low. I asked the children to go and play as I just wanted a bit of time to drink my tea/be alone... they spent the rest of the day trying to make me happy and asking me if I was happy. I kept saying I was happy with them and that they don't have to try to make me happy etc but it was too late!

I really want to tell my mum how damaged she's left me but it won't do a bit of good: she already knows, she'd spiral if I brought it all up again, it won't change a thing, it wouldn't be productive at all... I just feel a bit bitter about it all today... then I feel horrible for being so narcissistic!

Have you tried therapy for yourself?

I'm not sure what sort of therapy I should try or how to go about accessing therapy.

I went to my GP on an occasion when I felt suicidal and was on antidepressants for a few months. I requested counselling and was told to see how the antidepressants go.

My violent sibling was on a 2 year waiting list for MH services even after sibling had attacked one of our parents with a weapon... so I guess I'm a bit pessimistic about MH services available.

Can you afford private?
Psychotherapy would be benefical

We're not in a position to afford private therapy at present but hopefully it's something we can save for and pursue in the future.

I'd like to do what I can right now though.

You sound like a reasonable and responsible mother. You were showing your kids that you have feelings and standards - that's good and will benefit them. Children need to experience emotions like regret and shame, in small doses, in order to learn to delay gratification and even to learn to empathize with others. Emotions, even negative ones, have a function and motivate us to change. You did nothing wrong, from my reading.

In terms of what you can do today....

Do you exercise, or play a sport?
Do you have any creative pursuits?
To what extent do you go outdoors? Do you like nature or outdoor settings, or are they a bit intimidating?
Are you urban, suburban, rural?
What are your friendships like? What's your marriage like?

Based on your answers I will try to give my suggestions x

Do you exercise, or play a sport?

• I do exercise: weekly Pilates class, take the children swimming twice a week, casual netball in the summer months, my job is moderately active (I don't sit in an office)

* Do you have any creative pursuits?*

• we're renovating an old house if that can be classed as creative... otherwise, not really.

* To what extent do you go outdoors?*

• we get outdoors everyday and i work on a large campus so often outdoors at work.

Do you like nature or outdoor settings, or are they a bit intimidating?

• we're a fairly outdoorsy family and I'm fine with that

* Are you urban, suburban, rural?*

• we live rurally

* What are your friendships like?*

• we've moved around lots for DH's work (hopefully settled now for the long haul) and therefore have some incredible friends but they're scattered around the globe! We're currently forming friendships here but we're still at the "big night out" stage of friendships and not the "popping over for a coffee" stage... although I can see a couple of friendships beginning to go that way.... so, it's been very lonely at times (with two then babies/toddlers/now preschoolers)

What's your marriage like?

• I think we're fairly standard... we love each other, committed to each other, care for each other, we talk and share our lives... we don't have much "us time" as we haven't got childcare; we've had problems with DH's family being quite hostile and nasty, and my family puts an emotional strain on us; there's the usual difficulties that come with being parents of young children... but we're good friends and solid as a couple.

Sorry, my bold seems to have failed miserably!

You seem to have really good insight into ‘what ails’ and that’s very helpful. Some therapists in private practice will consider a fee reduction based on what you can afford to pay (though not all will, or they might not advertise it). Worth contacting some people you like the look of and seeing what they say?

I have a few things in common with you. Things that might help based on my experience:

• I think you need to re-think boundaries with your siblings and parents, I'd seriously consider going very low contact with them until your dc are older - you will then not have to deal with the aftermath of being with a violent sibling - sounds tough for your parents and siblings, but I think you would feel better overall putting your dc's needs first

• with dc, you hopefully have high esteem for them, ie you wouldn't let someone treat them badly, so maybe try transferring that thinking to you, don't accept for yourself what you wouldn't accept for your dc

• in terms of how you are bringing your dc up and helping them with their MH, have a look at parenting sites such as ahaparenting.com - run by a child psychologist - there is a lot of advice about how to treat children, how to bring up resilient and happy (and mentally healthy) kids, how to look after yourself, if you start by googling it on youtube you will get some video tasters - it will give you ideas and confidence

I am not sure I'd recommend psychotherapy at the moment as it can eat into your emotional time, and you have dc - I personally would find it a monumental distraction for me, and just too slow, but obviously everyone is different - if you think talking to someone might help, speaking to a clinical psychologist might be of more help to you as they would be able to pinpoint strategies to help you more quickly, in more practical ways, and point you in the right direction in terms of what you might find helpful to do/read and give you some objective feedback about your parenting worries, and I would think some reassurance.

Thanks for responding. You take good care of yourself, well done.

I've reread all your posts very carefully.

Would you say that you generally tell people the truth about how you feel? Including your family members, and your children?

I get the sense that you don't. And it might be creating a bit of an infection in the natural wounds that you are carrying around from your childhood.

When you had the bad day and the kids were trying to comfort you - did you tell them the age-appropriate truth about what was happening inside you?

You say you don't mind caring for people... do you tell the truth to these people that you care for? Do you sometimes refuse them, without apology? Do they know what they demand of you?

You call yourself names, like "so narcissistic", for the alleged "crime" of having feelings. That tells me that you have strong beliefs about how you ought to shut the fuck up, quite literally.

Do you think that other folk on this forum are narcissistic for talking about how they feel?

Another question: What would change if you started to tell the truth about your feelings a bit more, to various audiences? That's a sincere question, I think there might be both positive and negative things that happen, and I would be interested to hear about them.

I can't go low contact with my parents, it would have such a profound impact on my father and I would miss them, the children would miss them. I went low contact years and years ago when I decided not to be violent sibling's (literal) punchbag. Parents have set a firm boundary for violent sibling regarding access to their house (i.e. sibling is not allowed in their home) which resulted in the assault on one of my parents.

My children love their grandparents.. for all of their failings as parents, they are such wonderful grandparents.

I think the best action would be to only see parents at my house. Violent sibling doesn't know where I live so can't attempt access if my parents are with us.

Family members have heard the truth from me but the truth hasn't been reiterated.

My mother often can't handle the truth (as Jack Nicholson would say) and other siblings minimise my emotions as they believe they have it so much worse... they don't understand it's not a competition!!

I have a very open and communicative relationship with my father and he knows the ins & outs. We frequently talk about family issues together.

I use age appropriate emotional language with the children but when they try to make me feel better it makes me feel horrible, absolutely awful... these people shouldn't be feeling responsible for my happiness... I feel sickening guilt when they spend their time trying to "make mummy happy"!

Having an emotionally immature mother, violent sibling, other siblings with insecurities etc ... I have most definitely been conditioned to believe I should just shut the fuck up... and then get labelled with "resilient" and complimented on my resilience to reinforce the shutting the fuck up.

If I tried to tell my other siblings about how I felt it would become a competition/race to the bottom... completely pointless exercise. I fear my mother would plummet after years of being stable. My father and husband know it all... so, I suppose the answer is that nothing would change except a risk to my mother's fragile mental health.

Therapy (I found it was affordable if prioritised- I'm not earning, I paid for it out of my disability benefit.) There are also often places you can find free or low cost therapy locally- perhaps ask your GP what services they've heard about.

Meds if your GP thinks it advisable- it can take a bit of trial and error to find the right one or the right dose, so keep going back until you find something that works for you.

Best wishes xxx

I think only a professional therapist could help long term.
Short term, exercise etc as other people have suggested but
It sounds very complicated and these are deep wounds that need un picking.
You say you can't go low contact because of your father but isn't he enabling your mother?
It will just go on & on and your mental health , which is incredibly important, won't heal until the root of these feelings are faced.
It is so important to look after yourself first. I know look after your children too, they come first also but you will see such a difference in how you are as a mother once you talk through your own hurt and begin to heal.

I think the best action would be to only see parents at my house. Violent sibling doesn't know where I live so can't attempt access if my parents are with us This sounds like a good plan. The idea is to manage the family so that you are not being so affected. You could look into strategies about managing it, for example trying to communicate a lot via email as it is easier to manage the affect on you compared to face to face meetings or phone calls. Or whatever works for you. But if as you say, your dc love your parents, then having your parents over to yours sounds like a good plan.

I agree with @rvby about letting people know how you feel, and I personally think it is only worth it with people who care about you and want to know, and also that you can do it without labouring them. With dc you can let them know the ins and outs in age appropriate ways so they understand, but I agree with you that it is better for you to not get upset about it with them on a regular basis. If you try to minimise how you are being affected that would be best. There are methods you can use about sort of shelving the feelings until the dc are in bed, dealing with the feelings when alone so that you are available for the dc when present with them? I am not judging, more agreeing with you. For example, if something upset you at work, you would probably be able to get through the day without other people realising you were upset. That is what I meant about talking to a psychologist, getting some healthy strategies, so that you feel you are doing the right thing, as that will make you feel better about yourself overall.

PS I was more responding to what you had said about the cycle of poor parenting, as I could relate to that, and basically the way I dealt with it was by virtually eating child development books so that I could do my best not to make the same mistakes. Re child development and parenting, there is a lot of research going back decades and sites such as ahaparenting have reference to this research and explain it clearly with lots of practical examples - the person who has written it is a clinical psychologist. I tend to just gravitate to the things done by clinical psychologists and psychiatrists, it is really interesting, it does give you confidence and it can actually be quite therapeutic about your own past as you can see clearly what was not done properly with you and process that and move on. I have never been able to leave my dc alone with my mother because she is so irresponsible but my dc love her, as do I, and she loves us and so I facilitate that relationship. I have gone low contact with other members of the family since having dc because the love relationship isn't there and they are just incredibly draining, and my dc's needs come first, but I keep up communication so that they don't feel they have been cut off. Not to say how I have done it is perfect, just giving ideas.

Lastly, just as an example of how the parenting advice deals with emotions - it is fine to be human and have emotions, to find your family difficult, the important thing is to be able to recognise and manage your own emotions and process and move on from problems or make things better/find solutions and where dc see you doing all that, they are more likely to model your strategies and therefore also accept and manage their emotions in positive ways.... I hope that makes sense, and I have paraphrased it reasonably correctly.

Sorry about my long posts, I should have been more succinct! If there had been an MN edit button I would have gone back and rewritten all that but hopefully you got the gist of what I was trying to say. Gah!

Feeling really low today.

There's a huge project at work that's quite stressful for the whole staff (it's to keep our workplace open)... I woke up on Saturday with a headache so I woke DH up who snapped at me. He apologised and said he was feeling low about certain things too.

I tried to make a joke about something trivial earlier and he snapped at me again.

I feel awful: I feel like there's problems and hostility everywhere. I feel so alone. It's exhausting.

@LordGarmadon how are you today. Just read your last post and realized no one was here to chat - I'm sorry I wasn't about.

💐 LordGarmadon. Dh and I have difficult families so I feel your pain.

Your parenting sounds spot on to me. Kids trying to make mummy happy is completely natural. They're aware of your feelings and the implications of their actions towards you. That's brilliant!