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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Domestic abuse perpetrator programme- any experience please?

33 replies

worriedfordds · 22/02/2020 18:55

Hi, does anyone have any experience of the domestic abuse perpetrator programme? My exH was and still is abusive towards me and has now ramped things up from emotional to physical with the dc. Obviously no contact is currently taking place. I was wondering about the above programme as Dd1 has said some things that made me think of it as I'd heard of it before. Is it any good? Does it work? Can their relationship improve or will he always be a risk to them? They love their dad and want to feel safe with him but don't. And aren't. I'll bring it up with my dv worker next time I see her but would value any information I can get.

OP posts:
Lllot5 · 22/02/2020 18:57

Never heard of it, wouldn’t chance it, fuck him.

worriedfordds · 22/02/2020 19:06

Unfortunately the court has so far been insistent they see him. Of course he hadn't been physical with them then so that might change the court's view.

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netstaller · 22/02/2020 19:46

Pretty sure it would change the courts view

worriedfordds · 22/02/2020 20:03

They've not cared about any abuse in the past. I don't have any faith in the court tbh. Even when dds have refused to go the judge has said they have to. That was several years ago though and he had "only" been emotionally abusive.

OP posts:
user12674246853 · 22/02/2020 20:08

Have you reported the physical abuse to the police?

The only women I've known whose abusers did perpetrator programmes found that the abusers used them to refine their tactics - they just became more abusive.

Pandamoore · 22/02/2020 20:22

I dont know about the specific programme. But if you've ever read lundy bakrofts book 'why does be do that?' he found that when he read a programme to try stop abusers being abusive, what happened was the participants just started to share tips on how to abuse!

You cant teach someone who lacks respect for others and holds them in contempt, to no longer feel that way.

Report the physical abuse to the police. Get it on record. Then you should be able to see about getting a no contact order or whatever is needed.

Pandamoore · 22/02/2020 20:22

*when he taught a programme

AnyFucker · 22/02/2020 20:24

They exist, but have very poor outcomes

People who cross over that line to physically abuse their families have faulty wiring that can never be reset

Please do not risk the safety of your children on a false hope

Fuckfuckfuckshit · 22/02/2020 20:28

Yes - my STBXH went on it, self-referred after a particularly awful incident at home (but not the first). At the same time he went on the course, went on anti-depressants, and attended AA. I have to say the change in him was massive but sadly not enough for me to get over the past - I don’t think you ever get over feeling physically scared of your partner. I left him last year 5 yrs after the last big incident of abuse and I have to say he has been really good in the most part and accepts responsibility for our split.
I think the key to it working is that they have to self refer and really want to change

lexiepuppy · 22/02/2020 20:29

As above poster has said.

Lundy Bancroft set up perpetrator programmes in America, but the perpetrators passed on tips to each other and they also didn’t take responsibility for anything they did.

If they apologise ,it is fake, they truly believe they are not the problem.

Why does he do that ? By Lundy Bancroft is definitely worth a read.

PicsInRed · 22/02/2020 20:39

My understanding is that a common outcome is that abusers use the language and phraseology acquired in the course to further abuse the ex. Similar to psychopath rehab. Just makes them more convincing as a "decent person", therefore a more effective psychopath.

NotDavidTennant · 22/02/2020 20:46

What age are your DC? As the get older the court will be more willing to take their wishes into account when deciding on contact.

worriedfordds · 22/02/2020 21:53

Ah crap. I was looking for a positive and thought if he did the course it might enable them to see him. Dds are 13 and 11. Yes, the incident was reported to the police. Dd spoke to them herself when they came out and said she was scared of him and didn't want to see him. She's now hoping he will change if she can just make him see that what he's doing is wrong. He will never see that though.

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PicsInRed · 22/02/2020 21:55

The kids are old enough now for their opinions to be taken into account by the Family Court.

Gutterton · 22/02/2020 23:38

She's now hoping he will change if she can just make him see that what he's doing is wrong.

Maybe she should read this thread and LB book.

worriedfordds · 22/02/2020 23:54

I've given her a summary of posts but am happy to let her read this thread. She's very switched on and is taking no shit but is conflicted because she loves her dad and instinctively wants to believe he's a good dad. The dad she wants him to be. The dad she remembers from when she was very young before he left. She knows people don't change. Well, certainly not at his age. This is who he is. It's the real him. He's just done a good job of hiding it or rather only directing it at me and probably his gf. It's interesting that now dd has hit the teenage years and is a lot more outspoken and feisty that he's decided to show his true colours. She's always been spirited but now that it's directed at him and she's highlighted his flaws, he's trying to show her that she is wrong to have opinions and needs that go against him and his perceptions of what she should be. It's simple domination isn't it? My dad and whole family actually, did the same to me at the same age. It was heartbreaking to hear her say, "I know what you went through with daddy now." No child should know that.

OP posts:
Justtryingtobehelpful · 22/02/2020 23:58

There is this programme

www.everymanproject.co.uk/cont8.html

AnyFucker · 23/02/2020 00:01

After all you have just written you would have been happy to gaslight your teenage daughter that abusive men like this can change if women just give them a chance

Worrying

frazzledasarock · 23/02/2020 00:07

Ex went on a DVI programme. He didn’t pass the screenings tests to begin with. After repeatedly doing screening tests he got on to one programme.

And spectacularly failed it.

One of the programme co-ordinators was called up to give evidence during the child contact hearing. The fact an unbiased specialist in the field was deeply concerned about the effects of direct contact on my dc helped persuade the judge disallow direct contact.

Whilst he was doing the programme I was allocated a case worker, apparently sometimes abuse is ramped by the abuser whilst doing the programme.

But nope didn’t work. He did attempt to use what he learnt against me in court. Thankfully he wasn’t clever enough:

worriedfordds · 23/02/2020 00:08

No, that's not it at all. I didn't know anything about the programmes other than that they existed. The onus always falls onto me to find solutions to the problem of his abuse. I've been treated badly by judges who don't listen to my concerns and have said they HAVE to see him. It's not wrong of me to have a minuscule hope that a course like this could help him so that dds can have a relationship with him. After reading the replies I know more and that it won't help. He'd never agree to it anyway I don't think as he will never admit that he is abusive. I would never gaslight my dc and will do anything to protect them which is why I'm currently breaching a court order so that they are safe.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 23/02/2020 00:13

Would one affirmative reply have swung you the other way, op ?

It sounds like you need to believe in yourself not that some miracle might turn a violent abuser into a pussycat

worriedfordds · 23/02/2020 00:15

@frazzledasarock I'm sorry to hear that but glad it enabled the court to see the truth Thanks
There are more agencies involved now and I'm hoping that will make the difference this time. I have a DV worker who is great and really switched on to the more subtle ways of abuse as well as the overt ways like not paying maintenance. The dc are awaiting counselling via the same service. I feel like we're being taken seriously this time but I still worry that the judge will be dismissive because they always have been.

It's very hard to explain to a conflicted young teen that it's not safe for her to see her dad even if she does love him and desperately wants him to understand the effect he's having and stop. Grown women struggle to leave extremely violent relationships so trying to navigate her through this is bloody hard.

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pinkstinks · 23/02/2020 08:54

Refuge speak eloquently about perp programme here...

Responding to the launch of the Drive project, which will give domestic violence perpetrators one-to-one support to change their behaviour, Refuge chief executive, Sandra Horley CBE, says:

“Refuge is gravely concerned about prioritising perpetrator programmes over services for women and children escaping domestic violence. The Drive project is backed by Police and Crime Commissioners and by local authorities. At whose expense are these violent men being helped?

“The women’s refuge sector is being decimated. Refuge has experienced funding cuts to 80% of its services since 2011. Some of our services have had their funding cut by 50%. Finding a refuge space is like finding gold dust. How can we justify spending money on therapy for perpetrators when terrified and brutalised women and children have nowhere to go?

“There is no evidence that perpetrator programmes are effective in stopping men being violent towards their partners in the long run. Some men may refrain from physical violence in the short term, and meanwhile learn to substitute it with other more subtle forms of abuse to induce fear and maintain control over their partners. Domestic violence is not about the actions of individual men, it is a social problem. Helping a handful of perpetrators – it is expected that 900 offenders will be asked to take part in the Drive programme over the next three years – will do nothing to address the root causes of domestic violence. Domestic violence is all about power and control. It is not about managing the perpetrator’s anger or his drinking problems – it is about addressing his need to control ‘his woman’.

“Society needs to hold perpetrators accountable for their violent behaviour. The most effective way to do this is to arrest and charge them. We need to be sending a strong message to abusive men and to the public: that domestic violence is against the law and there will be serious consequences. The police response to domestic violence in this country is lamentable, as evidenced by two investigations carried out by Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC). We live in a world of finite resources. Funds should be spent on improving police response to domestic violence and ensuring that women and children fleeing violence have somewhere to go.

“Of course, in an ideal world we would tackle the problem of domestic violence from both sides. Our world is far from ideal; two women a week are killed by their partner or ex-partner in England and Wales. Until there is a robust, well-funded infrastructure of services to help all women and children living in fear of violent men, Refuge seriously questions any decisions to channel funds in this way.”

For more information, please contact the Refuge press office on 0207 395 7731 or email [email protected].

I work in DV so have strong views, but use local one Reprovide as a tool to see if mean actually even bother to try and engage (spoiler, almost never)

www.bristol.ac.uk/primaryhealthcare/researchthemes/reprovide/

worriedfordds · 23/02/2020 09:20

Thank you @pinkstinks. The police did nothing about the abuse he inflicted on me. They got me to do a video interview and relive all the trauma, told me he'd be arrested etc. Then after 2 months of hearing nothing told me what he'd done wasn't a crime and there was nothing they could do. I'm pretty sure sexual assault, sexual coercion, physical assault, emotional abuse, coercion and control and financial abuse are crimes.

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opticaldelusion · 23/02/2020 09:25

I actually think this is directing funds away from women to focus on men because of society's continual prioritising of men's needs. I feel very strongly about this. There is no real evidence that these programmes work at all and IMO, money is better spent on helping victims not pandering to abuser's egos.

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