Who is the abuser?

[outherealone]

Guy in long term relationship with Woman and their kids. She is supposedly violent and abusive to him. He hit her when she was drunk and hitting him and scratching his face. He says he’s never retaliated until now, he says he pinned her down and said he hit her but in the retelling changed it to a slap and this was apparently his only way of stopping her in her tracks.
they have been volatile for twenty odd years and says he’s always let her hit him/ attack him but on this occasion he said he’s had enough.
She is saying that he hit her and he is saying it’s a slap in self defence. I’m really uncomfortable with this story, they’re both my friends but my natural instinct is always to take the woman’s side...she is wild and has impulsive temper but my gut is that he should have left. But in light of recent events and understanding more about dv now, I’m confused, is he a victim who was pushed too far or is she the victim?
Could also say both as bad as each other which is what a lot of people are saying.

I would say that if his story is true then they’re not as bad as each other since here’s was prolific, long-term abuse but either way they’re completely toxic and shouldn’t be anywhere near each other.

I hope they don’t have children in the middle of this.

Is there a reason that you have to take sides? Are they splitting?

Have you ever witnessed her hit him? You say they have been 'volatile for twenty years', why do you say that?

It's so common as to be cliche that the perpetrator blames the survivor, however, female abusers are not unknown. She may have scratched him in self defence.

It's actually very common for the woman to be the aggressor, but society tells us to always blame the man. More and more cases are coming to light where men are too ashamed to admit they are being verbally, physically and mentally abused by their female partners.

No idea but sounds toxic, drunken and chaotic. Only hope is no poor kids involved. Sometimes people deserve each other

I think the abuser/victim model is often inappropriate. You can have two people being cruel, mean or abusive to each other throughout long term relationships.

I wouldn't look at who's right and who's wrong. They're choosing to stay together so let them get on with it, and decide if you want to spend time with them or not.

They need to go their separate ways, end of.

It's actually very common for the woman to be the aggressor, but society tells us to always blame the man.

That's really interesting. Do you have any data or evidence to back that up?

Urgh types long message and lost it.
@MorrisZapp yes I think I need to distance myself, it’s triggered a lot for me.

@OhCaptain I don’t have to take sides but I am very confused and conflicted as he’s your genuine pacifist type and so reasonable and now I feel that I will be a hypocrite if I stay friends with him. Because I naturally believe the woman every time.

@12345kbm they often had big barnies on nights out which I’ve seen but never seen violence.

@12345kbm

www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-47252756

This article alone from last year gives an insight into it. I work with all men and it surprises me some of the things that men put up with. For example I know someone who is given an allowance from their own salary and it never varies no matter what they work. If the shoe was on the other foot all Mumsneters would be claiming the female was being treated badly

@outherealone then for your own sake I’d distance myself from them both for a while!

Gosh @Jessie9323 I’ve known lots of couples where this is the norm (the financial set up) a couple of generations ago a lot of household money was managed this way. Or at least in some of the older couples I know.

@Jessie9323 that’s a sad story you linked to. I honestly believe that police are much more switched on to women perpetrators now but can also understand why a man might struggle to reach out.
As a victim myself and knowing plenty of others, I also know how shameful it can feel.
I attended pattern changing sessions years ago and all the women in the group were bright, mostly professionals and they all seemed to be strong women with their heads screwed on but some of them had kept returning again and again to their abuser.

@Whatisthisfuckery yeah I agree.

I think it's very complicated sometimes. I had a very bad relationship because my partner would know exactly how to wind me up and I would end up screaming and shouting because he frustrated me so much in arguments by not sticking to the point or not answering and other stuff, he angered me so much. Of course it was terrible behaviour and I was painted as someone with terrible mental health problems and actually I did end up very depressed and anxious and angry but I think if I hadn't screamed I would have self harmed and actually I did sometimes. He was calm as anything always taking the moral high ground.

Then I read all about passive aggressive behaviour and gaslighting and omg it was my partner. when I realised what was happening it was easy to change my behaviour because I could see how he wound me up to the crazy behaviour. I know I shouldn't have been like that but honestly when you don't get what they are doing and that they are not on your side but against you it's so easy for them to do this to you. I don't know exactly how this is relevant only that my partner would have been called sweet and kind by everybody else and had his whole family feeling so sorry for him because of his crazy girlfriend but he was the Lundy Bancroft water torturer and nobody else can see it, even i didn't see it for so long.

I think you need to take a step.back.

As someone who has been hit my ex is very good as painting me as the mentalist. Gaslighting and lying. My screaming and shouting my abusive language . Fails to tell people he throws and hits me.

Manipuplative to the core.

You are not there to take sides or judge . Just be there for them . Apologies posted too soon.
You know a small snippet of a bigger picture . Try to remain suppportive for both. Being drawn in and judging is not helpful or fair. Believe me being isolated for my exes lies has been awful.

@tinydancer thank you for sharing. So many men paint women as the loon and it’s often the behaviour of their partners that has sent them that way. Not always obviously, but usually somewhere along the line there’s been some abuse possibly even from past relationships .
I know it’s not all black and white. Maybe I am naive but it often seems to me that men are very good at gaslighting and pushing women into a corner where they can only lash out.
I don’t condone the lashing either but I’ve been around some very manipulative people!

Ah @calmernow I hope things are more settled now, your user name suggests so?
Yeah this guy is getting some praise and a few people saying no wonder and kind of ‘she drive him to it’ , lots of victim blamey justification, I find it all very perturbing.

Both women and men can be abusers. You say yourself she is wild with an impulsive temper. Why would you not believe this translates into being abusive to her partner?

Oh @wafflyversatile I definitely do believe women can be abusers, I’m sorry that this doesn’t come across. I’m tired...
I was severely abused by my mum until I ran away from home and that’s just one example.
It’s all come as a bit of a shock, I just thought she was a shouty fly off the handle kinda girl, which isnt nice either. But this has now taken a darker turn.

What I meant was ,is him hitting her back domestics violence/ abuse or a valid form of self defence?

If she was hitting him (and has been regularly) and he slapped her in self defence once, how can you think they're as bad as each other?
So, so, so many times on here women have come on to say that they finally hit back to their abusive partner and have been more or less patted on the back, with a side note saying "well violence is never the answer but..."
Why is it so different if it is a man?

i also think its complicated because nothing is black and white if he really has never hit her then i think i could see it as defence but really he should have just left the situation but she seems like the abuser.

I knew a woman who would abuse her man and everyone told him to leave but he loved her enough to talk himself into staying. Eventually he snapped and pushed her enough that she fell over and she called the police o_0 i was on his side because she even admitted it was the first and only time he has retaliated and he was driven too it.

I work in child protection and fuck me, every male DV perpetrator 'just pinned her down to stop her attacking me'. Even when they have a DV history against 6 different women it's the same story.

People claim that in arguments they end up losing their temper and hitting someone.

It was the excuse my ex used .... I pushed her because she was shouting , waking the children up. I was shouting because he had not come home all night.... the shouting came from talking initially , to frustration because he refused to tell me where he had been all night. He then pinned me up and smacked my head into the wall ..... who is wrong ....I think it depends on the version you are told. However personally it was /is control he never gave me the anwsers to many questions and lied often the shouting bore from his refusual .

My partner hit me in non argumental situations also when I refused sex. This was my fault because I am boring , always tired blah blah.

Now we have ended the relationship the fault is all mine and his friends agree. I am the crazy bitch who shouts and swears.
Bipolar , nuts , attention defecit. Bad example to my children. Funny is friend is on his second wife and is similar.

I am not perfect .
I am a loyal wife who has never hit him , never cheated , works hard and really wanted to go to counselling despite our faults . I love him and despite his / our faults he was an amazing Dad and at times husband. He walked away and blamed me.

Who I am now is the part that I have to focus on. You would believe his side he is calm , passive and charming. He even convinces me . It is hard but there are two sides .

Women can abuse as can men, am I abuser for shouting ? I guess you need to ask the victim ?

It is never black and white .

My mum was awful, I don’t remember a day from around the age of about 8 that she didn’t hit our dad in front of us, she made a point of making us watch.

He did hit her back when I was about 13, as a result he was removed by the police and despite my dads efforts we were left with her. Her usual punch bag was gone so she had to turn her aggression onto something and that was us. After about a year and a half my sister was removed by SS and able to live with dad, I wasn’t considered to be at risk so when I used to escape the police would return me to her despite me being old enough to express where I wanted to live.

Some people are awful, being male or female doesn’t alter that.

I had an abusive ex, I for some bonkers reason used to just take it, it’s something I still can’t rationalise. It took me about eight months to finally lose it and retaliate. The worst part being in the moment retaliating felt good, which was really scary.