Is my mum a narcissist? *title edited at OP's request*

[Crafty11]

For over 6 months know I've had feeling she may be but I'm not sure because sometimes she will do things that are nice but I don't know if there's a bigger reason behind it rather than being kind. Yesterday I had my counselling and realised she uses triangulation. It's with me and my sister and has been since my early 20s. However in counselling I realised she put herself in the middle of my relationship and sis relationships. Therefore trianglating herself at the top again.
These are other examples:
1.Holds huge grudges. Even if it doesn't seem a big deal. Grudges can go on for years.

1. Appearance matters alot! Eg remember your manners when you're out. You can't wear that you look a mess. The way you look reflects on me.
2. I was the golden child and sister scapegoat growing up. It seems she lived through me and my achievements. Pushed me at everything to be perfect. When I didn't do well told me I didn't practise enough or was rubbish.
3. Unpredictable mood swings. Walking on egg shells. When she's this way everyone panders to her.
4. I sometimes feel like the parent giving her advice. She never takes it anyway as she always knows best.
5. Her views are right yours are wrong. Eg. She loves Donald trump and no one can argue against why he isn't good.
6. You have to work around her. Gets put out if you don't but won't directly say. Will be passive aggressive.
7. Will not say no or confront other people outside our family. But will with us.
8. When confronted and you take on other points of views and not hers she cries.

10. Has little empathy and cannot put herself in other people's shoes. She is a terrible support of I'm going through anything. Has openly told me that my problems stress her out and she has to listen to everyone else's issues. But no one listens to hers.

So that's a list of some of the things I can think of right now. Is she a narc or does she just have narc traits?

Sorry about the typos

Bump

Highly indicative that shes a middle ranging narcassist. I'm so sorry.

Leaping out for me?

Triangulation
PA behaviours & grudge.
Lack of support
Eggshells
Obsession with facade

How do you feel, OP?

When she is nice, that's your respite behaviour. But its false niceness, only used to obtain fuel.

Behaviour = period

I don't know much about it OP but just wanted to add so sounds so much like my mother!!

Grudges - my uncle didn't invite her and my other uncle to his (tiny) wedding so that was it, relationship over for my dad and his brother because she took such massive offence. That was well over 20 years ago and she only stopped mentioning it 15 years ago.

She's right, you're wrong. Doesn't matter what it is! Her opinion is the only one that counts. Hugely passive aggressive. Other people making her look bad really rang a bell with me, never allowed to look 'scruffy' in public!

Only does nice things because it makes her look good. It's all for manipulation. If she's in a bad mood, we all know about it and are expected to pander to it. Expects people to wait on her in her home and in hers when she can't be bothered to get up. Never mind if you're busy doing something, if she wants something or your attention it has to be right NOW.

So not much in the way of advice, just sympathy!

I live abroad so don't see her so often but when we stay it has to be about a week long and by the end of it I'm absolutely done in!

What helps me understand it best- we're all just 'extras' in a film of her life. Everything that happens is only relevant for how it affects her. When you understand it, it's easier to manage the dynamic and not get offended.

I do get weary of our need to label people behaviour and all. She is jut not a nice person. Why worry about a label, its the person yu have to deal with

Everyone's narcissistic OP. Narcissistic Personality Disorder tends to be mainly associated with men (75%) and fairly rare (0.5-1% of the population).

Your upbringing sounds dysfunctional. Roles like golden child and scapegoat are markers of dysfunctional parents. It doesn't really matter what's wrong with her, she certainly sounds disordered, what matters is how to move forward.

Going low contact, working on yourself in therapy and centring yourself rather than her, are all healthy ways to disentangle yourself.

NoMorePoliticsPlease

Funily enough, I get weary about those who dismiss severe Personality disorders in such a way.

An unpleasant person will behave differently to one that has NPD. Because if the OP goes NC it's highly likely that she will be Hoovered. And then the OP needs to understand how to deal with it.

NPD may be as high as 1 in 6. Roughly split between the sexes.

Do you have data to back that up @75Renarde?

The difficulty with diagnosing Narcism, I'd imagine, is that so many narcissists aren't aware they have a problem. It's everyone else that's the problem.
Unless they are assessed after some kind of crime, most probably never get officially recognised.

@Crafty11
I am sorry to hear of your mum. It sounds like you have started to figure things out. I had the same role in our family. Brother was the scapegoat and sister oscillating between the two. We are now middle aged adults now. The consequences in our family for the children (and grandchildren to some extent) were devastating. I would suggest you read as much as you can on the disorder. It is listed on the American psychiatric manual (DSM 5) as a psychiatric disorder.
Here is a link to the mayo clinic that has a bit www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

Personally it took me a long time to figure it out. I didn’t know/ fully understand what was wrong with my mother until my mid 40s. I definitely knew something was wrong from my mid teens but couldn’t understand. And yes mum lived vicariously through me. The unsettledness in my and my brothers and sisters spirit, the pain of rejection, the total lack of affirmation and empathy, the rage, the silent treatment, the duty to perform ( be it in society or in school), the lack of a voice any of us had-our opinions didn’t count and we weren’t allowed to speak, nor on the odd occasions when we did were we heard - left us all with lifelong issues of depression, lack of confidence in one case substance abuse (brother) and poor personal relationships.
It took a long time for me personally to break away which I fortunately managed to do at 30, (by moving to a different continent) without fully understanding why.
There are several books on the subject of daughters of narcissistic mothers. Google a few on amazon. Some are repetitive some more more in depth.
@12345kbm yes there is a percentage of the population that has the disorder, however the consequences of growing up as a child facing this type of dysfunction are devastating and tragic.
Best wishes OP on your journey of discovery and healing. Knowledge is power and in many ways relief 💗

Thank you everyone for your replies. A lot of what people have said echos my childhood too.
To the PP who said 1% that is just the people that are diagnosed. As someone said a lot of narcs don't think they have an issue so are unlikely to get diagnosed. So very likely it's a bigger percentage.

I want to understand because it helps knowing why she's the way she is. Helps also how to deal with her and not to take things so personally. Realising she uses triangulation has helped a lot.

Also I feel confused because at times she can be nice and seem like she's looking out for you or caring. But then I think is it just to make herself feel good. Or for another motive. Just trying to figure it all out

That low level 1% is because it is rarely diagnosed. Having had it in the FAM growing up and in close relationships and after a good 8 years of studying all I can on it...I'd put it at about 1 in 7 or 8 (though some of them may just be other similar cluster b's).

Many put it at around 1 in 10.

If it walks likes duck and quacks like a duck...it's probably a duck.

...or a dick, as my spell check kept urging me xD

I find it hard to believe 1 in 7 or 8 people are narcissists, but we are all entitled to our opinions based on our experiences.

I think most of us can exhibit narcissistic traits throughout our lifetime at one point or another.

I've know of four people in my career that have NPD. It's an often misused term for someone being selfish, cheating or no longer caring about a partner and treating them with disdain and contempt. When people check out of a relationship, they can seem self-centred, dismissive and uncaring.

Op, I recommend the book 'Will I ever be good enough'. It's specifically for women of narcissistic mothers.

Toxic parents by Susan forward is my book recommendation. I was puzzled by DHs BPD until I found myself sucked in by MIL and we have now had to drastically reduce contact for the sake of both of us and the DC. I am determined to break the cycle of abuse now I can see how she behaves and the effect. Thank you for raising triangulation as MIL uses this a lot but I'd never heard of it. She hated us using baby led weaning so we had lots of 'aunt x is worried about DD eating toasts'. My therapist at the time raised that this was likely MILs thoughts. I struggle with the game playing, the lack of direct communication, the inappropriate comments, centering everything on herself (including my c section which obviously impacted her so much more than me!) and her disdain for DH who she goads at every opportunity. I would echoe others saying that knowledge is power so read up or talk to a therapist. Also about centering your life around you and not pleasing her.

I still find it hard to believe, that's why I said one in 7 ...or 8, not 1 in 7 which I actually believe lol. I like to be an optimist xD

Once you truly see them, it's terrifying how many there are around. I don't really agree with the whole 'narcissistic traits' argument though. Yes pplcan be 'narcissistic' (in some ways) on occasion but at their core, true narcissists display many traits that us normies just don't. Eg: lack of basic empathy, gaslighting behaviour, complete and ongoing disregard for the feelings of those closest to them ect.

'Normal' people don't display those traits. Cluster b's do.

...and some teenagers i guess but they're a law unto themselves lol.

There's a book about Adult Children of Emotionally Immature parents - that night also be an interesting read for you. Sounds like a lot of her behaviour is actually very immature.

I agree, her behaviour is very childlike. It's like she is emotionally and psychologically stunted. Really good observation tinselvestsparklepants

It is important to understand the narcissist because they can not change. Low contact that is managed with a superficial relationship may be the best bet, this is what l do with my mother. 'Narcissimvideos' on You tube is good because it is by a diagnosed narcissist. He knows he cannot change and advises loving yourself and breaking free.

Thank you for the book recommendations. I actually am already partway through toxic parents and children of emotionally immature parents. They are great books that really opened my eyes to a lot of traits in my mum.

Another thing I have just thought of that I think could be a big narc trait is she finds it funny when people hurt themselves. I remember my dad knocked himself out by accident and we had to call 999. I was shaking as he hit his head pretty hard and was bleeding badly. I walked into the kitchen about 30 mins later and she was laughing!! I was visablly shook up. I said to her it's not funny why are you laughing. I can't really remember the response but I was dumbfounded.