Is my mum a narcissist? *title edited at OP's request*

[Crafty11]

For over 6 months know I've had feeling she may be but I'm not sure because sometimes she will do things that are nice but I don't know if there's a bigger reason behind it rather than being kind. Yesterday I had my counselling and realised she uses triangulation. It's with me and my sister and has been since my early 20s. However in counselling I realised she put herself in the middle of my relationship and sis relationships. Therefore trianglating herself at the top again.
These are other examples:
1.Holds huge grudges. Even if it doesn't seem a big deal. Grudges can go on for years.

1. Appearance matters alot! Eg remember your manners when you're out. You can't wear that you look a mess. The way you look reflects on me.
2. I was the golden child and sister scapegoat growing up. It seems she lived through me and my achievements. Pushed me at everything to be perfect. When I didn't do well told me I didn't practise enough or was rubbish.
3. Unpredictable mood swings. Walking on egg shells. When she's this way everyone panders to her.
4. I sometimes feel like the parent giving her advice. She never takes it anyway as she always knows best.
5. Her views are right yours are wrong. Eg. She loves Donald trump and no one can argue against why he isn't good.
6. You have to work around her. Gets put out if you don't but won't directly say. Will be passive aggressive.
7. Will not say no or confront other people outside our family. But will with us.
8. When confronted and you take on other points of views and not hers she cries.

10. Has little empathy and cannot put herself in other people's shoes. She is a terrible support of I'm going through anything. Has openly told me that my problems stress her out and she has to listen to everyone else's issues. But no one listens to hers.

So that's a list of some of the things I can think of right now. Is she a narc or does she just have narc traits?

Hi OP.
I agree with some comments about us all displaying some narc traits every now and then. I searched and searched for a reason to my DMs behaviour. I felt I needed to give it a name, to justify to myself that the hurt, anger and guilt I feel. That I am not going mad, she has a condition, she is a narcissist, she has mental health. At the end of the day, call it or label it as much as you like. I have decided that, for whatever reason, she is just not a nice person. My DM is only concerned about herself and if being nice, angry, upset gets her what she wants, she will be just that. Narc or no narc, does she make you feel good about yourself, does she encourage you, care for you, make you smile, want what is best for you, nurture you. If the answer is mainly NO, then you need to practice some self care and think about what you do get out of this relationship.
I love my DM but I don't like her much. I am working through the guilt every day. I limit the time I will spend in her company and guess what, I feel happier.
You will get there OP, you are not alone

Sounds just like my mother OP. All of it, but especially what stood out was the bit about not wanting to hear about others issues. Mine openly said to me, as a child, if you have an issue, I don't want to know, it will stress me out too much!

I'll skip to the ending. I went NC with her over 10 years ago after finally clearing the Fog (fear obligation guilt) and it was 100% the best thing I've ever done.

It's nice to know I'm not alone with a parent like this.
I just feel very enmeshed with her. I've distanced myself a lot from what we were like previously. I used to hang on her every word. Took all her advice because I thought she's right, she's looking out for me. She was just trying to control me though and wanted me to do what she wanted. I don't tell her much about my life anymore as she wouldn't help being able to poke her nose in. However I still feel the FOG. More obligation and guilt now adays.
Sometimes I even feel sorry for her. Is that normal?

This may be a helpful insight:

parrishmiller.com/narcissists.html

@Crafty11, your post resonates a lot with me. It took me until I was nearly thirty to realise that my mother's behaviour was disordered. Because I am a real armchair psychologist, I had already considered that she may have bpd. Then, during counselling for postpartum depression a therapist heard some of my stories about my mother and mentioned that it sounded like bpd was something she could have. I think her childhood may have involved abuse from a sibling, so she certainly had her own trauma. Growing up, I spent a lot of time with extreme anxiety and feeling like I was walking on eggshells. I used to think of it in terms of my parents arguing until I realised it was pretty one sided with my mum heaping verbal abuse on my dad while I cowered upstairs with my siblings, listening for when it was going to stop.

The idea of emotional immaturity describes my mum to a T. Causing scenes, needing to be the centre of attention regardless of whether it is a special occasion (weddings etc.) , bursting into tears, giving me the role of caretaker of her feelings, having tantrums...Unsurprisingly, I am another one who couldn't wait to relocate to a different continent.

It also really saddens me to realise (only in the past year or so, and I am in my mid forties) that I am the scapegoat. Things that were supposed to be special for me - celebratory meals etc., have nearly always involved the manufacture of some kind of scene to ruin it. The same thing never happened with my brother or sister. When my parents come to visit, there is always some issue with her feeling unwell and announcing that she wouldn't be joining us for a meal out or whatever. The last time, she tried it on again. This time I was just done. She said she was feeling unwell so wouldn't be coming to a meal we had planned. "Ok", I said neutrally. No cajoling, no trying to change her mind. "Whatever you want to do is fine". And then I changed the subject. Well guess what, after that she decided she may be able to make it to the meal after all.
Now it seems that my kids are being scapegoated too. No acknowledgement whatsoever of my youngest's first or second birthday. Tales of gifts for Christmas etc. having been mailed on a variety of occasions over the past few years which have never shown up. Passive aggressive suggestions to my father and sister while stood beside me that my 4 year old was bullying his younger cousins and that she had to tell him off, without coming out and saying what she meant. I am low contact now and just feel sad for my children.

I think it's perfectly normal to feel sorry for her. I feel sorry for my mother because I don't doubt she has experienced a lot of damaging things in her childhood. But I am still furious and hurt. Like you, I always assumed she had my best interests at heart, but it is all about her. I don't reflect any glory onto her because I am not a high earner, wasn't particularly academically gifted etc. I am also a lot like my dad in terms of personality etc. so I think that enrages her too.It's painful to realise you are just, as someone mentioned upthread, a bit player in her drama.

@everythingbackbutyou I'm almost 30 now. I began questioning when I had my son and went through a lot of stuff and she was no support at all. The time I needed her the most emotionally she wasn't there.
Ever since I've been finding out bits and pieces and it's finally piecing all together now.

I feel pretty drained tonight. There's been a lot of thinking today and yesterday. I have a good counselling though. So I know I have a safe place to discuss. Not sure if she knows about these kinds of traits though.

It's totally normal to feel sorry for her. You know how much she is missing out on by not understanding how relationships work. I know my DM finds it very painful that she can't have everything just the way she'd like it to be. She's genuinely distressed when her totally unreasonable expectations aren't met.

You said "I don't tell her much about my life anymore as she wouldn't help being able to poke her nose in". It's called 'grey rock'- you only tell her superficial unimportant stuff so she has no fuel for her dramas, and no information to weaponise against you. You'll get very good at it with practice.

DM doesn't even realise it's happened. On the rare occasions she tricks me into going deeper, I always regret it!

Thanks pickle I've heard of grey rock but never fully understood it. But guess I'm doing it without knowing. Makes it easier when she doesn't know the details of my life.
Which is sad really because you'd hoped to include family in your life.

Grey Rock does not work. The only time you might have to ever use it is when children are involved. And you have married a Narc. This is then properly named 'Low Contact'

Listen to this link, OP. Let us all know what you think.

narcsite.com/2020/02/04/interview-with-hg/comment-page-1/#comment-337512

75 I haven't married a narc?? Where did you get this from
You seemed to have been on another one of my posts telling me something else that I had not said and seemed a bit hysterical. Grey rock may work for some. It may not for others

There's lots of us out there. The hardest part in a way is realising she's not perfect and realising the need to disentangle yourself. I'm grey rock with my narcissistic mum. Still takes a bit of a toll on me but I'm so much healthier and happier after going through therapy. I was completely enmeshed.

The golden child actually has a worse time of it than the scapegoat (true)

Why? Because the scapegoat is in pain, and therefore is in touch with their feelings (true self).

Low contact OP. And try and reach out to your sister privately. Do stuff together without mentioning it.

Youtube Dr Ramani (good at describing how the narrcissist impacts on you) and Dr Les Carter (who is good at describing what you need to do to maintain integrity and sense of self)

OP

You have misunderstood. I'm not saying YOU have married a Narc. The only LC in any kind of relationship is when you are coparenting.

Grey Rock does not work.

The reason GR does not work is that in your situation, where you are largely always been used to draw negative fuel from, you are being smeared by your mum. A lot. You appear to be continually painted black.

So you might be reasoning, if I dont tell her stuff then I wont be directly attacked or smeared?

Wrong. That is your Emotional Thinking talking. As was your response to mine. You misinterpreted my words to you. Rather than question what i meant for clarification, you popped one off. I'm cool. I can see where you are coming from. All good.

Again this proves your ET is running very high.

Bottomed line is this. If you continue to interact with a narcasssit in any way shape or form, they will just simply make shit up. This us because there are two factors concerning the Hoovers.

These are the Spheres of Influence and the Hoover Execution Criteria.

You are continually lowering the bar on the HEC by interacting and therefore falling into the SOI. There are 6 SOI. The 6th is the mind of the Narc. The others are concerning physical and electronic proximity. How easily a narc can deploy a Hoover.

You cannot stop thoughts of you entering their mind. But you can considerably reduce a Hoover by ensuring that getting any message to you will fail.

One of the hardest things to ever do is to turn your back on a parent. Both my parents are narcs. My father being of a superior school to my mother would utilise her often against me. But both were unaware so both their actions are instinctive and in the now. As is your mum.

I dint get hoovered because they cant get a message to me. The likelihood of them physically getting to me is close to zero. Plus my Dad like a lot if his school are utter, physical cowards and woukdnt be able to drive onto the Traveller site I now live on.

So it works.

Your mum is a very typical mid ranger.

I strongly suggest you listen to the link provided and I would suggest you consult with HG Tudor himself. Well worth the money.