Why are women still waiting for men to propose?

[NoWeAreNotNearlyThereYet]

As my title says, it's 2020 and women are still waiting for men to propose. It just seems bonkers to me. Surely when you talk about your relationship going forward once it's become more serious, you discuss important things like getting married, wanting children, buying houses, careers etc.

I'm always so amazed at the number of women who have children and buy a house with a man and then moan about the fact she wants a proposal and he's not forthcoming. And when posters ask why she can't ask him she will say something like 'I'm old fashioned that way'. But obviously not old fashioned enough to have waited for children until after marriage.

Also my other bug bear is expecting the man to foot the bill for an expensive engagement ring. Just why is it his place to buy this? If you are adults in an equal relationship surely you should both pay for it?

This is 2020 people, discuss the things you want out of your relationship so you both go into it with the same hopes and dreams. If you want children, agree to marriage first for the protection if nothing else. And women pay towards your ring, don't expect him to buy you a ginormous diamond ( or whatever ring you choose) and not contribute towards it.

Sorry that was a bit of a rant, but so many posters on here are quite frustrating on this subject.

Oh and as an aside, I'm not really a marriage supporter. I myself only got married to protect me and my children in case anything happened to him. And this actually made everything so much easier to sort when I was widowed. But now I won't have any other children I doubt I will ever remarry.
So now I sit waiting for people to hand me my arse. But this post is just my opinion. Right or wrong.

In some ways, feminism never did happen, not in any way that empowers a pregnant woman to fund a household and pay for childcare on one salary..
I am dating a man and have been for a year but I would never marry him.

Making sure that you are married before having a child is a mask for the inequality in society. If only we lived in a society where parenthood didn't ruin a single woman!

If its just your opinion, then why exactly are you telling other women what to do . Guess what, other women aren't you and have different ideas and ways of doing things.

I'm not proposing to DP. I'm going to wait for him to do it.

Because men are proven cowardly when it comes to saying no face to face with a woman

I'm not proposing to DP. I'm going to wait for him to do it.

And if he doesn’t? Will you talk to him about it or post on MN wondering why he won’t bite the bullet and is really committed to you?

We've already talked about it. I know where we are heading down the line and I'm happy with that, as is he.

"We didn't get married sooner because we couldn't afford it"

This is not a dig at you OP but this statement always irks me whenever threads come up based on finances and women being disadvantaged by not being married but having kids and not working etc. It's not thar people can't afford to 'get married,' it's that they can't afford the big flashy 'wedding' that they want. Getting married is relatively inexpensive.

OP, do your kids have your partner's surname?

I asked my husband if he wanted to get married (actually bought him a cheap ring so he would know I was serious). He said great idea, we booked the wedding for the following year and done. Nothing very frilly but we had been together a long time so it was all fairly straightforward .

I agree with the having children and buying a house and then moaning about not getting married part. That said I totally appreciate sometimes people get pregnant accidentally or after having kids change their mind and decide that yes, they want to get married after all.

I don't necessarily agree that just because it is 2020 women should pay for half the ring. While I think that is fine for some and I am absolutely not knocking it, I do not think relationships, expectation and or wants and needs are one size fits all.

Equality is not always about money. It can be roles and what each brings to the table, and more importantly respect. For example, does my partner respect me as his equal no matter what? I think it is absolutely fine for a man to propose and buy the ring, after all like a PP said the ring amounts to a gift.

Honestly. I'll just say it.

As a lesbian woman, married straight women's lives look terrible. They really do.

I don't understand most of it - from engagement rituals, traditional marriage ceremonies, the naming conventions of children, the division of labour between work & childcare and on and on.

As a lesbian woman, married straight women's lives look terrible. They really do

Yep! I didn't do any of the traditional marriage stuff but still got divorced and there is NO WAY I'll be shackled into traditional domesticity with a man again. I very much doubt I'd live with one but if I ever do we will have our own bedrooms and he will have the same living standards as me otherwise he can live elsewhere. No compromise on that.

I accept that possibly being single or at least being on my own a lot is the price I pay for being heterosexual and refusing to do that domestic thing with a partner again but I just don't see it as worth it.

Im a single sraight woman and i get that. Id hate now to be my age, married, doing 85% of the housework on top of my job, trying to keep a relationship alive and aware i could have to put house up for sale if my H made a fool out of be by wanting/trying to shag women half hid age.
So glad no man can rip the rug out from under me now. 13 years ago when i left my x i was so sad and depressed at my single (mother,l status.

I'm with you, OP. I'm always amazed to read posts where the couple has been together for years, they've bought a house and had a few children, but the poster is still "waiting for him to propose" as if we are living in the 50's.

^Agreed.

As a lesbian woman, married straight women's lives look terrible. They really do

As a straight woman, I couldn't agree more - over the years I have watched so many of my sparky, clever, funny, independent female friends marry men who (gradually or suddenly) turned onto manbabies who expected them do most of the housework, most of the childcare, most of the thinking, most of the social organising and most of the emotional labour - while still working to bring in a wage. And the man's contribution was a 9-5 job, which somehow assumed the status and importance of a god.

There are good men out there. But I will think very carefully before I share my home with one again. There's just too many other, better ways I want to use my time and energy than spending it as a bangmaid for some man.

I agree with you, OP. I do roll my eyes somewhat when I read a "why won't he propose" thread on MN and think "why won't you?" Where is the fight for equality then?

Fewer women are changing their name when they marry now - they've shaken off that tradition. Why is the proposal not heading the same way?

The ring also makes no sense really - why does the woman get an expensive gift and not the man? Tradition again? (I know some buy the man a watch or something but I don't think it's particularly common)

I've seen a few marriages where the couple really did seem both to be happy. And some where the man is the one who seems the more downtrodden. But yes, I think that the structure of society is to some extent still in the 1950s, so that even if you intend to have a more equal marriage things can still not work out as expected.

Do lesbian couples really have it a lot better? I would have thought that quite a few women would still want to take part in traditions (getting married in white or whatever) or divide household duties so that one is higher earning and the other does more childcare. And that there would still be plenty of lesbian couples where one is unpleasantly domineering.

Lots of couples I know discussed marriage but the man actually still wanted to propose and they both wanted the tradition of the formal proposal, asking the father etc. The women wouldnt have wanted to ask the man as they know he would have felt like she was taking something away from him, and he would have probably said no since he wasnt asking himself so didjt feel ready for it.

We never had a proposal we just discussed getting married (at my instigation) and did it. He initially wasn't keen but I wanted to, he is from another country and would have been a nightmare if anything happened to him, trying to sort it out. He bought me a ring that I chose but all our money was joint anyway and he bought himself a nice watch when we actually got married. He was against asking my dad, and I didn't take his name. We both have wedding rings but I don't wear it all the time, he does.

Surveys show consistently that levels of personal well-being tend to decline for women after marriage, while the opposite is true for men. Yet women are still sold the notion of marriage as the ultimate 'achievement'.

I've asked my partner multiple times. He's said no each and every one of those times.

2020 is the year I don't ask even once. And who knows, maybe someone better WILL ask me

If either of my husbands had asked my father’s permission to marry me I wouldn’t have been married at all.

I once asked my dad what he’d do if a man asked him if they could marry me and he said he’d tell them they weren’t the man for his daughter who knew her own mind and would make her own choices.

I'd already said "yes" before XH asked my father. No one actually thought he was giving his permission because no one was that dim.

I don’t understand it either Op.
I’m now 60 and have been married for 36 years. DH didn’t propose - we decided together - bought an engagement ring (I think we shared the cost), set the date. No proposal, no asking my DF. It was just a natural progression.
I find waiting for a proposal bizarre.

I got married in the early 90s and a proposal, especially a big romantic one just wasn't the done thing, at least among anyone I knew. Like a pp we just decided to get married, I chose the ring myself but he did pay for it. Way back when men held all the financial strings it was different, he proposed because he was offering to share his wealth with you and 'keep' you for life, but those days are long gone. Fancy, romantic proposals seem to stem more from fiction than tradition ime.

It's reassuring to see that so many other people did just decide together. I think I still have a little voice at the back of my mind saying that my exh is in some way right, and the lack of a proposal must mean that I made him do it, or at least that our marriage was unromantic and thus really rubbish :(

Well I’m very traditional, I will never propose and I hope to b a stay at home mum when I have more children. I will also look after my husband and I enjoy being took out for meals. So shoot me!!