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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

That horrible night

71 replies

CandyFlossSkies · 14/01/2020 12:10

I don't know what I expect from posting this. I guess it's because I haven't told anyone parts of my post and I just need to get it out. It's a sort of detailed diary entry that I can look back on, one day, if we're still together or not.

My partner is a sensible, normally thoughtful and ethical man. He is great when I'm ill with migraines and period pains (except when it's something contagious in which case he becomes unreasonable about it). We cuddle often in front of the TV and share interests. He loves animals. We want the the same kind of life. There's no alcohol or drug usage. No infedelities or doubts in that direction. We both want children, although time has almost run out for me at almost 34 years old because I've been delaying it for so long due to various things. I like making deep connections to people, which don't come around often. I'm a naturally talkative, bouncy kind of person.

I've grown increasingly tried of his inability to manage his moods, anxiety and irritability, which has led to unnecessary name calling and demeaning comments such as blurting out 'idiot' when I've spilt something or similar. He earns a lot more than me but we rent.

His wet blanket moodyness where he retreats innward to his own closed-off thoughts has ruined days put when we're both suposed to be happy, interested and enjoying ourselves. He always apologises afterwards and it's improved a lot this year after he's learn to manage his stress at work better, but his behaviour has worn me down during the course of our 11 year relationship.

He has said that I haven't been clear enough about how his behaviour affects me, apparently, despite it having caused many arguments, despite me pushing back many times on his language, despite me having a few serious night time discussions with him, despite me threatening to move out twice before. I've been clear enough. I'm a (normally) articulate person who's very direct about what they like and what they don't like.

Things have been on the up for the last year, but he said something disrespectful and kind in December which made my doubts about our relationship spin out of control. It wasn't just what he said. It was a reminded that, despite improvements, there are still signs he doesn't respect me.

After many tears, arguments in December, things were great for about two weeks until the last few days, when something that happened just over a year and a half ago came up to the surface about our sex life. We've always been very compatible sexually. We've never been into BDSM and are actually pretty convensional in what we like, mostly.

However, over time, I became increasingly uncomfortable over how he would place his hand on my breastbone/middle of the clavicle area at the top of the chest/base of the neck. Sort of in a v -shape. This increasingly made me feel uncomfortable emotionally during sex because I didn't want it to go anywhere near, or develop into 'choke-play'. He finds collars and choker type neckkaces on women quite sexy, but has never bought me one or pressurised me to wear one. He hardly mentions them actually, but it's something I'm aware of.

I started hinting to him sometimes that this hand thing didn't make me feel good and I didn't really like it. A few weeks later, he started doing it again. I didn't say anything during sex, but instead I sat down with him to have a serious discussion, and said I didn't like it, I wanted him to stop doing it, and that I found it demeaning and a bit degrading. I was calm but quite serious and wanted him to take on board what I was saying. Because hints and comments weren't enough to him, even though they should've been, I wanted to sit down with him so I could clearly draw a line in the sand and make sure there was no ambiguity about how I felt on the matter. He didn't argue with me about it, but his body language and facial expressions suggested that he found this discussion quite awkward and embarrassing, his face was quite taught and was avoiding eye contact. Sort of reminded me of a child who squirm when they're told off because they know they've done wrong.

Fast forward a few weeks or months (don't remember now). He did this thing again. I didn't want to ruin the moment by having an argument, so I again had a serious talk with him and said this was the 2nd time I've had to tell him not to do it (which made me feel uneasy). I added that because it's the neck area, it makes me feel too vulnerable. He reacted the same again, and I said the only time that something like that is ok is if I do it (meaning, that I would initiate it and that I had control over it).

We went on holiday the next day or the day after. The first night we were there in our holiday apartment, we had sex, and this time he sort of got my hand and tried to place it around the base of my neck again.I just went totally flat, turned my head and started crying. He stopped immediately and didn't understand why I was crying so much. I told him why - that after I had told him not to do it, here were were.....again. He was almost speechless at how ditressed and angry I was.

When he did that, I just found it disgusting. I was disgusted when he placed my hand at my neck before carrying on thrusting. I found it degrading.

I told him I found it demeaning, that it was slightly fucked-up considering his mother committed suicide by hanging herself. I asked, does he have a real thing about choking that he hasn't told me about? Does he get off on the idea of me being hurt? He said no to all of this and was upset that I was upset and was apologising a lot inbetween bouts of being speechlessness. I tried to act like normal during the rest of our holiday but it was haunting me.

Now, even if that was based on a verbal misunderstanding, I find it hard to forgive him amd move on. He hasn't done it since. Even so, I can't get over the fact that even prior to that horrible night, I had already hinted, and that wasn't enough. I had sat down seriously with him, and that wasn't enough.

When we were arguing about it last night because I brought it up again when we were in the kitchen, I asked him why? I was looking for some kind of justification, but he had nothing. When I asked him why, he said, grasping at straws, that I'd mentioned it being something about the influence of porn, which seems to be getting more and more rough and extreme these days. He was squirming when I said that feebly regurgitating my answers back at me wasn't enough. He said he wasn't going to make excuses and that what he did was wrong. When I again questioned him, he said that he knew I didn't like it, but he didn't realise HOW much I didn't like it.....not something you want to cross or test out with sex, is it? I guess 'I don't like it' and 'I find it demeaning' wasn't enough. I told him that my boundaries are set my ME. Their importance, is for ME to decide. They're not for him to test out by trail & error. To make things worse, when he was grasping at straws during this conversation, he said I hadn't communicated to him ENOUGH how much I didn't like it. The words 'I don't want you to do it in future' and 'I don't like it' weren't enough apparently, and I'm pretty sure I used the words 'degrading'
and 'vulnerable' too. I had to be visibility upset for him to take me seriously, it seems.

He keeps reiterating that he would never hurt me (that's kind of already been done though so it's kimd of ridiculous saying that). He says that said the other day he realises he's failed as a partner to make me feel safe and secure. I just feel so sad and anxious because that day I felt like something was dropped and shattered on the floor. I feel like this will never really heal. My ex cheated on me once by kissing another girl in her car, back in uni, and that kept resurfacing as well as a deep hurt. I'd be fine for weeks, months, before it would come up again as if it had happened yesterday. I'm not sure if I can get over this. It's not what he did exactly. It's more about the fact that I've lost trust in him and that he's showing a disregard for my sexual boundaries, 9.5 years into the relationship.

OP posts:
Helpfullilly · 14/01/2020 17:36

With his mum...that family situation is a massive red flag to me, alongside how disrespectful and entitled he sounds.

Let's take the story and re-organise the pieces:

His main male role model was a man with 'anger' issues, who threw things around in rages, (or rather, an abusive man). His mother was so mentally unwell and unhappy she took her own life.

I doubt abusive husband helped her mental health and I suspect he could have well been a contributing factor to her suicide.

Men who grow up with an abusive male role model are much more likely to be abusive themselves. Even when not violent or employing different tactics, this is likely to be where the primary underlying attitude of disrespect and entitlement related to their partners originates.

This trauma and the story of his parents are a warning.

It doesn't justify the behaviour, it's just a reason why he might be as he is which you can do nothing about. His actions and his attitude are what matters and they are terrible. He's really hurt you and broken your trust and violated your sense of autonomy. He's not nice or safe.

Christmaspug · 14/01/2020 17:40

You could of packed a bag and left ,in the time it took you to type all that .
Do not have children with this man
He is not your last chance for a family
You need to end it

Clymene · 14/01/2020 17:48

Don't suffer from the sunk costs fallacy - where you've spent so much time and energy on this man that it would be too difficult to start again.

Read the pinned post at the top of relationships. Is that how he makes you feel? Is that what your relationship is like?

Don't you deserve better?

MsDogLady · 14/01/2020 17:50

Repeated, non-consensual sexual domination, belittling, name-calling, irritability, ruined experiences

OP, this man has betrayed your trust and violated your sexual boundaries. He also emotionally and verbally abuses you.

For all of this contempt, he has shifted the blame by accusing you of “not being clear enough” about how his behavior affects you. That is manipulative BS, as you have been crystal clear. You have chosen to stay, though, and he is confident that you will never leave.

Reread the list made by @hellsbellsmelons. If I were you, I would seek counseling to determine why you are settling for this degrading existence with this abuser.

CandyFlossSkies · 14/01/2020 20:04

@MsDogLady I already have an assessment book this week. Just for someone to talk to about it. I initiated that, not him, but I think he needs to see someone too but he doesn't think he has a significant inner problem.

@Helpfullilly I discussed with him today how I think he might have a slightly warped sense of what the bar of respect should be in a relationship. I sensed a hint of cockyness too. I don't sense it usually but it has come out a few times. In December, when I refused his apology over asking if I' been born yesterday (the thing that set me into a spin), he got annoyed and said that I could pack my bags and go back to my parents if that's how I felt. I brought that up with him the other day, since it's not the first time he's used that. It's a power card and he was bluffing because when I looked back into his eyes angrily and said 'I might just do that', he genuinely looked scared, as if he was going 'oh fuck' in his head. I spoke to him recently saying that was a fucked-up power card to play against someone who earns a lot less than he does, and someone who he knows doesn't want to move back into the middle of nowhere with her parents. It was nasty, and unethical. He's acknowledged this but it's still in my mind.

Since he's started he new work four years ago (taking him from a waiter, to then being a mature student, to then being on £45k), I feel the dynamic between us has changed a bit. Some of that is on my end and my own sense of financial vulnerability that is independent to his actions, but some of it comes from him working with a bunch of childish douchebags that are younger than him that are sailing the high-seas of Tinder and sometimes talking in a derogatory fashion towards this or that colleague they've fucked. Not all of them are that bad, but it lowers the tone a lot. Most, except one or two, are all horny, emotionally inept chimps by the sound of it working in I.T, adopting a bro way of talking to cover up their own sense of ineptitude and lack of self-perceived masculinity. We had disagreement once (the usual about me not liking something) and he sort if made-out that compared to his colleagues he's an angel. This sort of alarmed me a bit because he shares my view of his colleagues, so using them as a comparison is warped and irrelevant. I wouldn't be interested in any of them.

Years ago, following an argument that day or week on something, he said part of the reasons why he liked me was that I called out bullshit and liked the fact that I pushed-back and argued my case. This was a few years in, and I remember saying something like 'That's bad, even if you mean that as a compliment. The point is that no one should even have to do that. Not every woman is like me. What of you ended up with someone who really didn't handle confrontations well, someone more timid. Does that mean you'd be shit to her? That you'd trample all over her...hmmm?'

He can't remember a single memory, a single positive view of his mum & dad together. No shared laughter, no banter, no affection - nothing. His dad never played with him. His mum committed suicide because she was lonely and saw that she would be working till her dying day due to the lack of a proper pension, and she had pride and didn't want to be a burden on anyone. He said it was a shock to everyone. How she was always the rock in the family and perceived to be strong. He says it was a shock, but I think he realised too late that just like children need to be loved by their parents, parents need to be loved by their children. When he moved away for work he didn't keep the communication channels going enough because he was so keen to start a new life away from the saddness of his past, and I think he missed some cues in that time.

He really wants me to be happy and financially independent with my work or career and is at a loss as to how to help me. He has never been controlling and would like me to make local friends. I've picked all the bad bits and put them on here. There are plenty of times daily, when we laugh, cuddle, do silly dances. There have been years where it was very rare for us to argue. What a shame.

OP posts:
OPTIMUMMY · 14/01/2020 20:41

I think you are talking yourself round and round in circles over this relationship. Issues that have happened in the past being brought back up as you make sense of everything. I think you’re posting on here for two reasons- when you’re in the thick of it sometimes it can be hard to see the wood from the trees - so having other views on it can be helpful, and the other I think is to get you to force yourself to take it seriously and not let it slide- so there’s a record of it that you have to face and not pretend to yourself everything is okay now (because when things are going well it feels like it’s not an issue, but when it isn’t it hits you hard). There’s a lot of uou not wanting to spoil the mood when you’re unhappy but it festers there anyway. I think this relationship is too far gone, or you’re waiting for it all to get better for you to feel like it’s the right time to have children etc. You’re only 34, there is still time for a whole other life with someone better and a family.

Treesinthewind · 14/01/2020 20:57

Please don’t have children with someone who doesn’t respect your boundaries. You can get out of this with no need to ever see him again. Take that opportunity. It is never ok to be coerced or manipulated into sex acts you’re not happy with. The fact you keep thinking about it shows that you have the strength to know this isn’t right and to leave x

Luckystar777 · 14/01/2020 23:17

Yep. Again, been there and done this. My ex had some amazingly great qualities, generous, helped when I was ill, helped repair shit I'd went through in childhood. But she had two sides. The other side was abusive, controlling, possessive and it was not always obvious - but it also never went away. And I had to make a decision for my own health and wellbeing. Accept there were two sides - or end it and hope to meet someone better who would respect me 100%, not just 80%. I think you're in a similar place even though maybe you can't see it yet. You're kind of trying to bargain in order to not have to make that difficult decision. That is what I get from what you've typed in this thread.

candycane222 · 15/01/2020 08:36

Bit of a side point here but I am troubled by the suggestion in your last post that you (and your bf) feel he should have loved his mother more and then she might not have taken her own life. I agree with pps that trying to psychoanayse your bf to justify/excuse his behaviour is pointless and probably actively unhelpful to you, but that comment stood out to me as particularly wrong-headed and also unfair on your bf. Honestly, life doesn't have to be about constant navel -gazing like this. It isn't any way to live.

This doesochange the fact that he's disrescting you and your boundaries and you shouldn't accept it. But see that, and stop tying yourself in knots - which I suspect you are doing in order to not see it.

KundaliniRising · 15/01/2020 09:24

You are in an abusive relationship.

He is abusing you.

He will not stop as it is a big part of his personality and he thinks that he has the right to treat you as he wants.

He has zero respect for you, continue at your own peril.

thesunwillout · 15/01/2020 09:38

Cut and run op, your relationship has run it's course
It's a new year.
Seriously, do not have children with him, you'll be tied together forever in one way or another.
Make 2020 different, you've got your whole life ahead of you, you don't need to be with this person.

Thetellyisjelly · 15/01/2020 09:41

Well you’re never going to trust him after what he’s done. So it’s a big leave from me.

AllYouGoodGoodPeople · 15/01/2020 09:50

I think what he did was awful.

But you are years into a relationship that doesn't have a future. You seem trapped in it due to money and habit and expectations. If you could afford to live independently would you be with him? If you'd met him last year would you still be together? I think deep down you know this and he knows it and your relationship has run its course.

Sadiee88 · 15/01/2020 09:55

Hi Op- would he go to counselling with you? He seems like he might be depressed? Emotionally cut off? You seem to have had lots of good times?

If you are deeply unhappy then you need to leave, you are still young, don’t stay with him just because you want children. You have plenty of time for that.
Regarding the choking thing has that stopped? he may not have realised how serious you were and how upset it made you.... saying that he doesn’t seem to care that much about your feelings.

thistimeofyear · 15/01/2020 10:05

You’ve had lots of really good advice on here. I really hope you take it. He’s shown you who he is and that he doesn’t care it upsets you ( sounds like he actually enjoys the fact it does). If he loved you he wouldn’t carry on doing it. It’s scary to leave a relationship but you’ll like yourself much more if you do. Trust me. You also lost my sympathy a bit I’m afraid when you were complaining about not having parents who can help you financially. Mine didn’t and loads of people don’t have that. You need to get some independence and a bit more self respect I’m afraid. Don’t look for a man to “give” it to you.

FlowerArranger · 15/01/2020 10:41

Inability to manage his moods, anxiety and irritability
Name calling and demeaning comments
Sexual bullying
You dont feel safe
You do not trust him
He doesn't respect you.

What else does he need to do for you to walk away? Looking at this in the cold light of day, would you really want to have children with him? And potentially live with him and his moods, bullying and disrespect for decades to come?

It seems that much of your desire of trying to make this work is rooted in your professional/financial insecurity. So why not focus on trying to sort out this aspect of your life - without being distracted by an unfulfilling relationship.

Have a look ar websites of companies in your area, or areas you might want to move to. What sort of people are they looking for, what career paths might lead to you gaining employment there. Could you retrain or get additional qualifications? Also consider engaging a career coach.

But above all focus on what you want and cut him out of your life as he is sapping your life energy.

CandyFlossSkies · 15/01/2020 12:17

@Sadiee88 Yes that's definitely stopped. It was never around the actual neck, but it was too close to it and all the while I was thinking 'What the hell does he get out of this?'.

@OPTIMUMMY I think that's a pretty accurate assessment. I guess part of me us terrified of making the wrong decision either way and I'll end up throwing away something that cpukd have been salvaged. The main thing that's snapped me out of that is looking back at certain times we've had. There were a few years where I was genuinely happy, but the scales have now tipped too much. Even though I love being in a relationship, and I will take a split really hard, I realise that on balance my state of mind and emotions will benefit overall. There's part of me that thinks that too much water has passed under the bridge for me to just forget.

OP posts:
Sadiee88 · 15/01/2020 13:25

could be anything, control, power, something that’s been talked about by his friends or in work. He should’ve stopped immediately if he knew you didn’t like it. Setting the sex part aside I think It sounds like you’ve made your mind up.
I’ve lived with someone irritable and moody and it does suck the life out of you eventually. You sort of get in to a rut, accepting increasingly bad behaviour. He doesn’t sound like father material and once you have a baby it’ll be harder to leave and you’ll always have a tie to him. Best of luck with your future, you deserve to be happy.

SeaEagleFeather · 15/01/2020 13:52

If nothing else - and there is plenty of 'else'! - then calling you names and being verbally abusive is a terrible role model for any children to be around.

KundaliniRising · 15/01/2020 13:57

Hi Op- would he go to counselling with you?

Joint counselling is not advised if there is abuse in the relationship.

Interestedwoman · 15/01/2020 15:43

'I've grown increasingly tried of his inability to manage his moods, anxiety and irritability, which has led to unnecessary name calling and demeaning comments such as blurting out 'idiot' when I've spilt something or similar. '

This is awful too, of course. He sounds like my dad and his verbal abuse when I was a child. This would be very damaging to any potential children, and of course is not ok to do to you either. You can bet he's able to keep his temper more a work- it's only you he targets because it's in secret so there are fewer consequences, and this bullying makes him feel better about himself.

You've done nothing to deserve this, and you deserve and can have someone better. Hugs xxxxx

P.S. 1 in 2 marriages end in divorce, and probably more co-habiting relationships end in separation. Most people your age will've been in long term relationships, but it doesn't necessarily need to massive amounts of baggage in a bad way. It can make them have more knowledge of how a relationship will be- and anyway, as I've said, to have been through breakups is completely normal. In a couple of years you'll find the spate of there being married people around you has ended, and the spate of men being single again will be upon you. :)

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