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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

That horrible night

71 replies

CandyFlossSkies · 14/01/2020 12:10

I don't know what I expect from posting this. I guess it's because I haven't told anyone parts of my post and I just need to get it out. It's a sort of detailed diary entry that I can look back on, one day, if we're still together or not.

My partner is a sensible, normally thoughtful and ethical man. He is great when I'm ill with migraines and period pains (except when it's something contagious in which case he becomes unreasonable about it). We cuddle often in front of the TV and share interests. He loves animals. We want the the same kind of life. There's no alcohol or drug usage. No infedelities or doubts in that direction. We both want children, although time has almost run out for me at almost 34 years old because I've been delaying it for so long due to various things. I like making deep connections to people, which don't come around often. I'm a naturally talkative, bouncy kind of person.

I've grown increasingly tried of his inability to manage his moods, anxiety and irritability, which has led to unnecessary name calling and demeaning comments such as blurting out 'idiot' when I've spilt something or similar. He earns a lot more than me but we rent.

His wet blanket moodyness where he retreats innward to his own closed-off thoughts has ruined days put when we're both suposed to be happy, interested and enjoying ourselves. He always apologises afterwards and it's improved a lot this year after he's learn to manage his stress at work better, but his behaviour has worn me down during the course of our 11 year relationship.

He has said that I haven't been clear enough about how his behaviour affects me, apparently, despite it having caused many arguments, despite me pushing back many times on his language, despite me having a few serious night time discussions with him, despite me threatening to move out twice before. I've been clear enough. I'm a (normally) articulate person who's very direct about what they like and what they don't like.

Things have been on the up for the last year, but he said something disrespectful and kind in December which made my doubts about our relationship spin out of control. It wasn't just what he said. It was a reminded that, despite improvements, there are still signs he doesn't respect me.

After many tears, arguments in December, things were great for about two weeks until the last few days, when something that happened just over a year and a half ago came up to the surface about our sex life. We've always been very compatible sexually. We've never been into BDSM and are actually pretty convensional in what we like, mostly.

However, over time, I became increasingly uncomfortable over how he would place his hand on my breastbone/middle of the clavicle area at the top of the chest/base of the neck. Sort of in a v -shape. This increasingly made me feel uncomfortable emotionally during sex because I didn't want it to go anywhere near, or develop into 'choke-play'. He finds collars and choker type neckkaces on women quite sexy, but has never bought me one or pressurised me to wear one. He hardly mentions them actually, but it's something I'm aware of.

I started hinting to him sometimes that this hand thing didn't make me feel good and I didn't really like it. A few weeks later, he started doing it again. I didn't say anything during sex, but instead I sat down with him to have a serious discussion, and said I didn't like it, I wanted him to stop doing it, and that I found it demeaning and a bit degrading. I was calm but quite serious and wanted him to take on board what I was saying. Because hints and comments weren't enough to him, even though they should've been, I wanted to sit down with him so I could clearly draw a line in the sand and make sure there was no ambiguity about how I felt on the matter. He didn't argue with me about it, but his body language and facial expressions suggested that he found this discussion quite awkward and embarrassing, his face was quite taught and was avoiding eye contact. Sort of reminded me of a child who squirm when they're told off because they know they've done wrong.

Fast forward a few weeks or months (don't remember now). He did this thing again. I didn't want to ruin the moment by having an argument, so I again had a serious talk with him and said this was the 2nd time I've had to tell him not to do it (which made me feel uneasy). I added that because it's the neck area, it makes me feel too vulnerable. He reacted the same again, and I said the only time that something like that is ok is if I do it (meaning, that I would initiate it and that I had control over it).

We went on holiday the next day or the day after. The first night we were there in our holiday apartment, we had sex, and this time he sort of got my hand and tried to place it around the base of my neck again.I just went totally flat, turned my head and started crying. He stopped immediately and didn't understand why I was crying so much. I told him why - that after I had told him not to do it, here were were.....again. He was almost speechless at how ditressed and angry I was.

When he did that, I just found it disgusting. I was disgusted when he placed my hand at my neck before carrying on thrusting. I found it degrading.

I told him I found it demeaning, that it was slightly fucked-up considering his mother committed suicide by hanging herself. I asked, does he have a real thing about choking that he hasn't told me about? Does he get off on the idea of me being hurt? He said no to all of this and was upset that I was upset and was apologising a lot inbetween bouts of being speechlessness. I tried to act like normal during the rest of our holiday but it was haunting me.

Now, even if that was based on a verbal misunderstanding, I find it hard to forgive him amd move on. He hasn't done it since. Even so, I can't get over the fact that even prior to that horrible night, I had already hinted, and that wasn't enough. I had sat down seriously with him, and that wasn't enough.

When we were arguing about it last night because I brought it up again when we were in the kitchen, I asked him why? I was looking for some kind of justification, but he had nothing. When I asked him why, he said, grasping at straws, that I'd mentioned it being something about the influence of porn, which seems to be getting more and more rough and extreme these days. He was squirming when I said that feebly regurgitating my answers back at me wasn't enough. He said he wasn't going to make excuses and that what he did was wrong. When I again questioned him, he said that he knew I didn't like it, but he didn't realise HOW much I didn't like it.....not something you want to cross or test out with sex, is it? I guess 'I don't like it' and 'I find it demeaning' wasn't enough. I told him that my boundaries are set my ME. Their importance, is for ME to decide. They're not for him to test out by trail & error. To make things worse, when he was grasping at straws during this conversation, he said I hadn't communicated to him ENOUGH how much I didn't like it. The words 'I don't want you to do it in future' and 'I don't like it' weren't enough apparently, and I'm pretty sure I used the words 'degrading'
and 'vulnerable' too. I had to be visibility upset for him to take me seriously, it seems.

He keeps reiterating that he would never hurt me (that's kind of already been done though so it's kimd of ridiculous saying that). He says that said the other day he realises he's failed as a partner to make me feel safe and secure. I just feel so sad and anxious because that day I felt like something was dropped and shattered on the floor. I feel like this will never really heal. My ex cheated on me once by kissing another girl in her car, back in uni, and that kept resurfacing as well as a deep hurt. I'd be fine for weeks, months, before it would come up again as if it had happened yesterday. I'm not sure if I can get over this. It's not what he did exactly. It's more about the fact that I've lost trust in him and that he's showing a disregard for my sexual boundaries, 9.5 years into the relationship.

OP posts:
CandyFlossSkies · 14/01/2020 14:18

@Baileys4two Yes that's right. It's bugged me in the background since, but I don't know why the memory of that has caused me such anxiety now. It's possible that because I had such a nice time recently, my brain is struggling to understand the difference between the man in front of me with what he did then.

OP posts:
CandyFlossSkies · 14/01/2020 14:22

@UYScuti I don't think he will do it again, but if he did, the shit would really hit the fan and I would be straight out of here in no time. It's a mixture of being angry at what he did an not being able to forgive that, and the horrible 'what if' feeling. I think I'm reacting the same way as if my partner had cheated on me.

OP posts:
CandyFlossSkies · 14/01/2020 14:25

@hellsbellsmelons Yes. I'm starting to that. I'm starting to see that every time someone stays instead of leaving, they're sending out a message of 'It was bad, I didn't like it, but on some level I accept it because I'm still here'.

OP posts:
Junie70 · 14/01/2020 14:27

So cutting the story short, you've told him multiple times that you don't like something but he does it anyway?

He has no respect for you. And like a PP said, is trying to dominate you.

There are red flags around any man who tries to put their hands around your neck area during sex. Ignore them at your peril. It only takes once to kill.

Winter2020 · 14/01/2020 14:30

"We both want children, although time has almost run out for me at almost 34 years old because I've been delaying it for so long due to various things."

You have plenty of time to have children but I wonder if underneath some of those delays is the thought (perhaps unconscious) that you are not sure you want to have children with HIM. Will it be your children getting called "idiot" for spilling a drink one day?

If you think your relationship is worth saving then I think you should ask him to get some therapy for his anger/poor behaviour so he can one day be a good kind dad. If you don't think it's worth saving then get on and make the break.

CandyFlossSkies · 14/01/2020 14:31

@Equanimitas Because I don't think I ever really processed it properly. I think maybe I lost trust in him permanently and that really bothers me. It's come back every now and again as a niggling worry but the has disappeared a little later. I think the reason why it's affected me so much now is because I'm thinking about it more objectively. I've realised the gravitas of it. I've realised that if I'm still hurt and thinking about his a year and a half on then it must have really affected me and it's not properly resolved. I've realised that I may never be free of it haunting me every now and again unless we break up.

OP posts:
CandyFlossSkies · 14/01/2020 14:33

@FetchezLaVache I had a mixture of tokophobia with a general indecision if I want kids in my life or not, but yes, he has been a factor too.

OP posts:
Idontkowmyname · 14/01/2020 14:36

I’ve not finished reading the post but I’ve read enough to tell you there are so many red flags here. You should seriously consider whether or not you should have children with this man.

CandyFlossSkies · 14/01/2020 14:36

@GilbertMarkham

Yes that's right. He hasn't tried it since.

OP posts:
Luckystar777 · 14/01/2020 14:37

His mother hung herself and I suppose it could be he's trying to take 'control' of that by sort of re-enacting it. I wonder if he found her? It's common for trauma survivors to try to take back control from trauma. Just a thought.

However, that's no excuse to do what he's doing and I think I would feel so unsafe with a man doing that to me and would have to end it unfortunately.

As other people have said, there's still plenty time to leave him, find a new guy who won't choke you and have kids with.

CandyFlossSkies · 14/01/2020 14:52

@Luckystar777

He got on with his mother who was a resourceful, hardworking woman. His brother found her. I don't think he's ever really processed it because he has a very forward thinking attitude and doesn't like dwelling on the past. His Dad sounds like he was a total loser. He had a temper issue. No direct violence, but things like tables being turned over in one incident. His Dad turned to cigarettes and alcohol for comfort because both parents came from rough, impovrished backgrounds where life was hard with little or no mental health support or awareness. They divorced.

He hasn't been choking me - definitely no, but at that time he was increasingly placing his hands in that area because I think the thought of domination did it for him.

If I were to psychoanalyse this, I would say that it was driven by the fact that I'm such a 'strong' character, although I don't see myself as such. My sparky, passionate nature is part of the reason why he was attracted to me. I've met a few men who I feel would be pretty intimidated by that. I'm very good at verbal sparring in arguments, I'm usually much more verbally quick thinking than him in that way. I wonder if on some level if particularly at that time, he felt emasculated and needed to assert his dominance in it came out in the bedroom. He has done this hand thing in the past from time to time, but it started getting more and more frequent to the point it was starting to make me feel like I needed to put a stop to it. That's when it went to shit.

OP posts:
DontCallMeShitley · 14/01/2020 14:57

Don't get pregnant until you find someone that is worthy of you. He isn't.

And, time isn't running out, it is better to have children when you are younger but it can still happen at 40.

Let him go, being alone is better than living with that.

ginnybag · 14/01/2020 15:25

You mention no BDSM element in your relationship, but, fwiw, the type of action he was trying for is something that a very large majority in the community won't go near, and definitely not without extensive discussion and very clear rules. What he did to you would be a HUGE no in that light. You'd had a very clear, outside of sex, discussion about the fact that you didn't like it and didn't want it to happen - and he did it anyway to 'test how much you didn't like it'. That's not okay.

I mention this by way of highlighting that you aren't over-reacting, and you have the right to your feelings. You're coming back to it, over and again, because it is important.

You don't trust this man to respect you - because he doesn't.
He doesn't take you seriously; he doesn't listen to your boundaries. He belittles and insults you. This incident is just the clearest, sharpest example of this, and you can't move on, because you know - deep down - that there is a deeper problem.

BurtonHouse · 14/01/2020 15:55

He has shattered your trust and even though it was 18 months ago, trust sometimes just doesn't re-grow. Having a child with someone is the ultimate leap of faith, so if that faith and trust has gone it's not the right thing for you. Time to cut loose and find someone who respects and loves you enough.

CandyFlossSkies · 14/01/2020 16:07

Part of the reason why I've persevered is because of the massive upheaval it would do to my life. I really didn't want to be an older mother, but I didn't have kids sooner because we were living in a hpuseshare, I just wasn't ready anyway and he was a mature student until he was around 33 years old. He then got a job in another city (where 90% of that kind of work is), and I quit my job because it was the right time to leave my workplace anyway (it was a lovely job but it went downhill steeply with cuts, different management and now the place no longer exists). There were enough cracks at that 7 year mark for me to not move to him, but I did, wishing it would get better. I have no friends close-by, my family lives around 3 hours away. I'm financially vulnerable too, having done a creative degree at a time we were all convinced by our teachers & tutors that everyone MUST go to university, otherwise you wouldn't be taken seriously or work in the arts (then I graduated into a recession where I didn't have middle-class parents to support me in that way or a 2nd house that I could live in until I got established). I fell from the next and didn't fly. I've thought about studying for another career to make myself more financially independent (which he supports), but I have no idea what, so here I am, surfing the job pages for low paid work. It really breaks my heart thinking I'll never have the house, job, relationship that I wanted. I'm crying as I write this as I don't have much hope in the dating world. I am pretty intellectual and don't find many people often that I can connect to on that level, which I do with my partner. A lot of men at this age are either taken or have a huge amount of baggage from their past.

OP posts:
CandyFlossSkies · 14/01/2020 16:08

Nest*

OP posts:
Janualla · 14/01/2020 16:57

Has he ever had counselling about his mum? Or about this particular problem?

rvby · 14/01/2020 17:08

You are obsessing over "why why why why", regarding an act during intimacy.

But that's not the issue here.

The issue is, he's a shit person who isn't nice to you, and you want to have kids. You can't have kids with him. Obviously?? Surely that is as plain as day to you.

So why are you wasting your time with this guy?

He's nasty, mean, moody, and makes you feel shit in bed. You know what to do. Do it.

Stop hand wringing, you don't have to have a deep psychological reason for why it is ok to leave this guy...

rvby · 14/01/2020 17:09

Please don't go down a rabbit hole about his mum. Seriously. His mental health and how he has dealt with his mum's death is literally not your problem, there is zero you can do about it.

It's a red herring and has nothing to do with the situation at hand - which is - you have spent 11 years dating someone who isn't very nice, and you need to leave him if you want to have kids.

It's honestly that simple.

Helpfullilly · 14/01/2020 17:17

I really feel for you OP.

You've been betrayed and it's broken something which can't be fixed, once broken. He's not a good partner, but you know that.

I must have graduated around the same time as you, and I had issues getting going with a career. I really struggled for a while and it effected how I felt about myself, like I'd failed at adulthood. At times I felt really hopeless about it and stuck in a low paid job. But actually a lot of people were badly impacted at the time and still feel the ripples now. You haven't failed, you have just faced adversity. Things can still work out of improve,

With training and finances...I have ended up increasing my income and adjusting my career through education/training. It is entirely doable and some of the most helpful training isn't too expensive. Freelancing and running your own business are also options, or having a portfolio career.

I thought I'd be stuck renting forever but very recently (and after what was actually a really rough period) everything came together, and I own half a lovely house.

Sometimes after really difficult experiences or at your lowest moment things start turning around. You get a lucky break, notice an opportunity, all the hard work suddenly pays off.

It's okay to grieve the loss of what you wanted and thought he'd be, what your life would be by now generally. It's normal and healthy, but remember, it's not over yet. You have time to still have the things you long for, but don't waste any more time now on him or this version of your life. You can get to where you want and need to be, if you support yourself and let other help you get there, even if it's hard.

Luckystar777 · 14/01/2020 17:22

@candyflossskies if trying to lay down boundaries then and he refused to go with them then you unfortunately have a problem - well, he does. It does seem like he feels threatened by how strong you are. Ok you say he hasn't choked you but the motion he's doing is just so close to it, it feels dangerous and you don't like it, and no wonder.

UYScuti · 14/01/2020 17:23

Why would he feel turned on by something that he knows full well is causing you distress
it is quite alarming to think that your sexual partner is aroused by your distress, especially when he has shown a lack of impulse control and is easily able to physically dominate you.
the fact that I'm such a 'strong' character
well yes, a strong willed intelligent woman is often just a more interesting target for a domineering man, he likes a bit of a challenge and he feels a greater sense of satisfaction at putting her in her place than with a meeker target

Luckystar777 · 14/01/2020 17:28

I get what you're saying about being able to connect with him in ways you can't do with other people. I suppose you need to decide if it's worth hanging onto that but still having someone there who you actually can't fully trust anymore.

I had a long relationship with someone who I felt we had that special connection with for over a decade but she became very controlling and I had to think about my safety and long term would I feel ok putting up with that into old age. My answer was (eventually) no. It was very difficult to end it but I done it for me and I'm much happier now. I sacrificed that bond for the possibility of maybe a lesser bond - but with potential partners who would treat me with respect. The safety and respect matter more to me these days.

unbaffled · 14/01/2020 17:32

Christ, what a bastard.

What part of the word 'No' is so hard for him to understand?

ConnorRipley · 14/01/2020 17:33

Never ever have kids with this man. Once you are pregnant he’ll know he’s got you trapped and then his abuse will escalate.

Your brain needs to catch up with your instincts which are telling you he’s untrustworthy and the relationship is a dead loss.

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