alcoholic husband. please reply even to tell me to grow up and leave him!!

[mickeylou]

i have been with my husand for 5 years and we have a 2 year old son.i noticed over the last 18 months he changed in personality - we started to row all the time. my husband always drank most evenings to wind down after work. i used to enjoy sharing a bottle of wine with him to be honest. i did not think it was a problem. i did not notice he had become an alcoholic. he started being sick every day and refusing to get out of bed. he was taken into hospital but still never admitted he was drinking vodka all the time.he would really get to me when he fell asleep really early or went back to bed in the day. he said it wasnt his fault he was ill and i felt guilty for resenting him as i was working and doing everything with the house and the baby. a few months ago i snapped. he would not get out of bed and i slapped him. he put his fist thru the door in rage after i left the room. he admitted to his doctor the next day that he was an alcoholic. after 2 failed detoxes in hospital and several binges (during which he was just evil - nasty insults, hidden vodka bottles, overdoses) he has now been sober for 2 weeks. i wish it was all sorted now as i do love him but i found out last week that he had bet the equivalent of my months wages on poker. we are in debt and our house is on the market for sale! he said he was drunk and apologised. he cried and cried and begged me not to leave him. i could not bring myself to make him leave. thing is he has turned really nasty again.last night he threw the phone at the wall and kicked and wrecked a cupboard in the kitchen. today is my birthday. he did not bother getting up then complained i spent the day with my sister. he keeps accusing me of cheating on him (which i havent done) and says i am always talking about other men in my sleep (have no idea whether this is true cos i am asleep!!). he say he is leaving me tomorro!! i dont think he will follow thru but know in my mind i shud make him go. most imprtantly i dont want my son to be hurt by this.when sober he is great daddy and my son adores him.

well said EscapeFrom.

Hmm, i must agree with Escapefrom, MO2B, I think you will find you are in the majority here.

For your kids to see you vomiting from Cancer meds is entirely different from them seeing you vom from drinking too much, staggering around, slurring their words and generally making an idiot of themselves. Or worse, shouting, hitting, generally being a bully, or violent. There are of course differing degrees of alcoholism. Good for your DH turning it around. You and your boys obviously meant enough to him for it to be worth it.
My mil is generally pissed by 5 or 6pm and hate being there with my dd's when she is as she slurs and shouts, not nastily just talks loud for some reason. She tuts and rolls eyes and criticises. She is awful to be around. DH drinks most nights and I fear he will become his mother one day. I hope not, but if he does he will only have so many chances to change before I will remove my girls from that kind of life. Oh and myself

Of course I meant minority[rolling eyes emoticon], FGS I cannot type, or think this am.

I'm with MOTB on this.

Alcoholism is a disease/illness, the alcoholic is a sick human being and we do not punish people for being sick!

However, when it comes to real acceptance, it is INSTINCTIVE to be hostile to the alcoholic, as though they were the enemy, willfully bent on destroying everything around them. So I do know where you are coming from, EscapeFrom (incidentally, I read all your previous links and I cried for what you went through but I also need to learn from it too. Thankyou for that)

8 months ago, I was instinctively hostile, because I didn't know how to behave any differently. It's natural to react like that, but what you have to remember is that when the appalling traits of the illness are in evidence all around you, THEY have absolutely no recollection, because they are in 'Blackout'. They have absolutely no idea.

And it is natural to clean up the shit, vomit, empy bottles, broken glass etc. especially when you have a little one (as we do) so when the alcoholic surfaces it is all as it was before.

So the cycle continues. And continues until you yourself get expert help from Al Anon on how to get out of the cycle.

For example, you teach your child to keep their shoes on when there is broken glass - extreme, but one of many ways to make the alcoholic face up to the consequences of their behaviour. You keep clearing up and they will never know any different (though I did draw the line at leaving vom all over the living room !!).

I am hoping that I get as lucky as MOTB. My DP hasn't hit rock bottom yet, but I am trying to detatch from the illness and not from the DP I married.

ML - keep being brave, and really really take each day as it comes.

Email me if you want to.

Sorry for your struggle ss2, but I am pretty sick of hearing people say that alcoholics are so sick and need support, when in fact they will reach rock bottom faster when made to face their responsibiltities, I dont know if you had an alcoholic parent but a lot of people on this thread did and we are still living with the consequences of our parents staying together.

I put myself through several sick, co dependant relationships as I tried to rewrite history, and I will never put someone elses mental health before my own again. I watch my brother stuggle with relationship and he is too frightened to have children in case he repeats history.

We are talking from the childs point of view, I dont know if my mother would still be alive if my father had left her, but my memories may have been easier. Again I wish you luck for the future, but we are talking from very different positions.

Thanks for wishing me luck, CC. Yes you are right when you talk of our positions being very different. The one thing I was afraid of by posting was upsetting all the other MN's who have/may have ongoing issues with alcoholism (parents, siblings).

The reason I came into this thread was because I'm in a similar situation as ML (ie. married to an alcoholic). I don't want to just dwell on what our DP's get up to, I just wanted to offer support

Have you/or are you getting any help now?

Forgot to say, in answer to your question, CC, I never knew my father, so I don't know whether he was or not. My grandfather was an alcoholic but I never knew him. My DP's parents are very heavy drinkers, and his brother is a binge drinker (Yikes ).

Alateen was a huge support to me as a child, and luckily I hit rock bottom in the relationship stakes and have been on the up ever since, dont want to come across as being aggressive, cos I think it is right that both sides of the argument are shown, I have just heard ao many dry drunks comparing themselves to cancer patients and demanding sympathy, I am not demanding sympathy for the repurcussions of the illness so why should they.

I would agree with cluelessandchaos on the points she has raised, particularly in her first paragraph about reaching rock bottom faster if such people are not enabled or shielded from the consequences of their actions.

SS1 you have not upset me at all - it is interesting to see different viewpoints.

Alcoholics are by their nature selfish and are often in denial as to the extent of their problem. Alcoholism is a family disease; it not only affects the drinker but everyone else around them caught up in the merry go round of alcoholism. Its often learnt behaviour (how many alcoholics had parents or relatives who drank heavily throughout their childhood, a fair number I suspect) but there can also be genetic factors that predispose people to such addictive personality type behaviours, it can run in families.

I would personally argue that if a person really wants to help an alcoholic they would leave them or at the very least limit contact with that person to an absolute minimum. There are no guarantees though with alcoholics; an alcoholic person could lose everything dear to them and or reach rock bottom and still carry on drinking. They have to want to help their own selves; absolutely no-one else can make them see what they're doing.

They after all made a conscious choice to start drinking. Their alcoholism is not a problem that should be emotionally owned by another person; we are responsible for our own actions.

If it's down to 'genetics predisposing certain people to such addictive personality type behaviours' then how can that person make a 'conscious choice' to start drinking?

Agree with your last sentence, ATM.

I still love and care for my DP but he does know that he is responsible for his actions.

I did not mean to offend anyone by comparing alcoholism to cancer, I could have said anything - diabetes, manic depression etc. It IS an real/official/registered illness. Ask any doctor. Also an alcoholic who is desperate to give up CANNOT stop drinking without medical help. They could, and do, die trying to go cold turkey this way. There is an AA joke (there are a lot of AA jokes . "what happens if you lock up 10 heroin addicts and 10 alcoholics up in a room for a week" - "when you open the door you will have 10 very angry heroin addicts and 1 or 2 dead alcoholics!" Some people are BORN genetically predisposed to becoming an alcoholic - say a grandparent and a parent were both alcoholics - they will, most likely, be addicted from the day they take their first drink. People who understand this, and the illness, choose to keep themselves safe by NEVER drinking. I have a friend who is a 3rd generation alcie, she became an active alcoholic at 14. She is now in her late 20s and has been dry for years. Her father is a similar success story. Her mother died, she couldn't stop. An alcoholic stops, or dies. Others, like my DH, often become alcoholics because of the bad luck of the draw. Lots of people drink at a level that would bring the illness on if you are unlucky enough to have the "gene". . A counsellor described it to me as a pilot light which is burning in about 1 out of 10 of us. Most of us can carry on drinking and never have a problem. The man or woman predisposed to addiction will hit a level where the problem kicks in. I know lots of people who happily drink a bottle of wine a night and that is seen as acceptable. I totally agree with the tough love aspect which you must learn about if you are ever going to help someone get sober. I ended up reporting my DH to the police and locking him out of the house. It took him 6 more desperate weeks before he hit his rock bottom. Don't enable someone - ie never throw drink away - that might be the bottle that takes them down to rock bottom; don't make excuses for them. It is all very hard but if you love the person that is inside then you will hope and pray that they will return to you. There are lots and lots of success stories out there. You all probably come across recovering alcoholics at all levels of your life - your doctor, your barrister, your children's teacher - many a successful man or woman even millionaires are a regular AA attenders, even in our neck of the woods. Geneticists say that very soon we will be able to test for pre-disposition which may help everyone in the futre. Sorry to be long winded but this is so close to my hear. Good luck to anyone in this situation.

I feel for everyone posting here with sad personal experiences. and since my dad died from alcohol related illness late last year, i've been struggling with the mixed feelings mickeylou and others have described. I think this is the difficulty - it is an illness, but it causes such poisonous behaviour - this makes it so confusing for anyone living with it, child or adult.

if my experience is any help - for my own mental health I had to disconnect as much as possible from my dad's bad behaviour, and also because I didn't want it to affect my son (he died while I was heavily pg with DS2) but I kept in touch as compassionately as I could with calls at times when he wouldn't be drunk, and card/photos of DS1, who he loved. Discussions in Al Anon helped at difficult times.

harder i know to maintain such a half-way house with a husband, but everyone who says you need to put your son first, and I would say, really protect him from seeing his dad in such a bad way, and in order to put your son first you need to take care of yourself. finally you have zero chance of being in a good state to assist your husband if he does sort himself out a bit, if you are in a bad way; for all of you, get as much independence as you can now,

good luck to you

Mickeylou, how are you and how was your weekend? Thinking of you.

Hello, sorry i have not updated recently. i did not let dh come home after his stay in hospital and to be honest it did not have the desired effect. he has not worked his backside off to make amends or sort himself out as i had hoped.

in last few weeks he has actually become worse. I have let him visit ds at home a few times. at least twice he has been drunk and nasty.

but he has also been awful without the excuse of being drunk. whenever he sees me he finds (in fact i think he actively looks for)some little thing to lose his rag about.today i had a very reasonable call with him so i said he could visit tonight. he had only been in the house about ten minutes before he started. he just shouts and carries on; you cant get a word in edgeways and even if you do its pointless.

he is so incredibly self pitying its untrue. when he drinks its my fault because i kicked him out. when hes nasty its my fault for upsetting him. i actually think he has become the most unpleasant person i have ever met.

i advise people every day on family law. i know that what he does amounts to domestic violence especially when he shouts at me in front of ds. i would tell another woman in my situation to file the divorce. i really dont think i have any other option now. i have told him not to come back to the house again.

before tonight i had said he could have ds at his mothers house for a few hours on sunday. i dont want to end up in court dispute but am worried he isnt stable. his parents have closed ranks around him and arent speaking to me. i dont know whether i can trust them to supervise. i dont want him taking him anywhere on his own and dont know whether they would stop him. most of all i dont want him around any drunken behaviour.

sorry to bombard you but what do you think?

Mickeylou, did his parents know that ds was going to go there on Sun? Why have they suddenly stopped talking to you when they have been so supportive up until now? They do know what has been happening, don't they?? If they did know about Sun. then I think that ds should still go - it is only for a few hours and surely the inlaws would look out for him (or are they heavy drinkers too?). Don't do anything hasty before then, wait until the day itself...the dilemma may even be sorted out for you.

You do need a break from it, so knowing that he is at his parents will help you. Obviously you will still need to keep lines of contact open for ds's sake. However, when you do talk & he is drunk & abusive, you must try not to react to it. Just say something like "I'm sorry you are having a horrible day, but I do love you". Then leave it, don't engage in any other conversation.

Have you managed to get to Al Anon yet? You will learn so much on how to live/cope/deal with this illness, but more importantly you need to have time for yourself with the right support before you make any (rash) decisions such as divorce. I understand how bleak it all seems at the moment, but you need as much help and support as your dh does. You will find that your situation has been experienced by everyone else, you won't be alone.

Thinking of you (smile)

ML,

My initial reaction to your posting - not at all surprised sadly. Knew he would continue to mess up and now his parents aren't talking to you. Think these people read some sort of script. These people need their heads banging together and you are perhaps going to have to be the one to start communication again. I would explain to them that its not about you and your husband (they need to put that issue to one side) but about their grandchild. They are hurting too yes but being in denial and protecting him is not going to help anyone least of all them.

Would you consider a neutral contact place (park, museum etc) for them to see their grandchild?. I would certainly not suggest meeting at each other's houses. You can lay down clear and consise rules; you give them one chance and if they mess up well at least you know that you tried.

I think you are seeing your husband for what he is really like. No decent role model for your son to follow is he?.

I know you have mentioned divorce and subsequently that may well be the path you go down. That is only a decision that you yourself can make though.

I certainly think that you initially need legal advice and protection from harrassment.
Not just to mention talking to Al-anon; their support can be invaluable to you. It takes a bloody brave person to put their hands up and say they need help; it is not an admission of defeat.

I wish you well ML; its a hard road ahead for you whatever you decide.

ML,

I would say that he drank and started to drink heavily a long time before he met you. So don't go believing that crap he spouts when he says that its your fault he drinks. He will blame you for everything.

He is having a pity party; again like many alcoholics its all "me, me, me" and not a thought or regard for anyone else even you and his child. They are truly the most selfish people.

You cannot allow you and your son to be dragged down by him. He is capable of violence and has thrown household objects on more than one occasion. Its but a small step to go from throwing objects to hitting you.

You may also want to talk with Womens Aid; they are also helpful in such circumstances.

Mick

No personal experience but my SIL is in the middle of a divorce for this very reason. Her DH isn't violent with it but instead also takes lots of prescription drugs.

Only you can decide whether to leave him but what I would say is that you need to think whether you can run a whole household, look after him and take his crap at the same time.

His nice guy nasty guy is all part of it I'm afraid. Your son adores him but wont if this continues and he grows up.

You have done and are doing the right thing, if you had let him home he may have been a bit nicer and tried to cover up but it would have descended into chaos again sooner or later. What is happening to him is the slope to rock bottom, it is scary for him and thats why he is blaming you. I hope you have or can find some support that can tell you how well you are doing and how proud you should be. This wasnt an easy decision to make. He may not stay this nasty person forever, he may turn it all around. As for his parents if you are happy for them to see your ds then you need to make it clear that you need to kept informed prior to any meetings between dh and ds, and given the choice of whehter they take place or need extra supervision. If they cant agree to that then theres your answer.

you are defo doing the right thing and if you feel
disallowing contact until he sorts himself out would be appropriate i think that is fair. you have tried. he hasnt and is at the stage that normally comes right before acceptance where they blame everyone else. unfortunately acceptance comes at rock bottom and you cant help him with that. In all honesty you have to let him get worse or he will never see himself as he is and get help. good luck

Well? How did it go?
Are you OK?

Hello Mickeylou
I have tried to read most of your post but don't have time to read it all, sorry if I repeat but felt compelled to respond.

My Ex Husband was and still is an alcholic, I reconise all the chaotic behavour and it brings it all back, things that I had forgotten from that very very hard and sad time.

I tried for 4 yrs in various ways to make our relationship work, I decided it was over so many times, my friends and family were sick of hearing " it's definatly over this time".

It is the nature of the beast, it's not just the alchoholic that has up and downs you become co-dependent too.

The only thing I can advise and not stress enough is go to an Al-anon meeting!!!

You will not be judged or told what to do, it's very difficult for people close to you to not tell you what to do or have an opion.

As far as your son is concerned you have to do the right thing for him and his welfare, you dh is probably a good person and loving Father deep down but is unable to be responsible at the moment, you are the only parent that is able to make sure your son is safe right now.

I know that will mean you will get alot of grief from him and his family, but I promise doing the right thing for him and you will be better for you in the long run, you will have to live with yourself and any decisions you make and the consequences of those if something were to happen.

I hope that you managed to find a way to get through this.

I'm not sure how people arrange to contact each other on mumsnet but if you want to I would be happy to give you my no. or email if you need to rant in the future. x

Mickeylou, I hope you;re ok. no court will blame you for putting your son's safety first (what if dh got in a car drunk, with your son...) I;ve attended Al Anon and it is great, just to feel you are not alone, and that others understand. if you can tell your story, the act of telling helps it make more sense.

my best friend in RL was with a similarly emotionally abusive husband, took the hard decision to leave, it was really awful for her and the children but a year later, things have settled, there is minimal contact with ex-h and the children are doing well.

proof indeed things can change.

wishing you luck

Hi Mickeylou,

How are you?

I have been lurking on this site for a while readng your post and sadly there are many similarities with our h's. From reading your post I finally said goodbye to my H and told him that I didn't want to see him until he can prove he has been sober for a period of time. I don't know how long that period is and perhaps will never happen but for me it's an important step.

I've (hopefully) inserted a weblink to a page from a website that also gave me the courage to try and have a happier life without him. I love him dearly but cannot go on supporting his addiction. You will be strong for your son because you sound like a strong woman and you will be happy again with or without your husband.

www.heb4health.info/en/answers/add-living-with-an-alcoholic.htm

ML, hope you are OK. Please keep in touch.

And thankyou for sharing that weblink, pam04 - I can't get in at the moment but will try again....