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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Estrangement.What to do.

28 replies

User48675 · 01/01/2020 21:07

Have also posted in Chat forum.

I think the start of a new year makes you think about things (well actually dwell in my case).
I have been estranged from my mother for about 5 years (she is fast approaching 70). I went through a difficult time and she did not support me in the way I needed to be supported, then shouted at me on the phone and I didn't contact her back...and then nothing. We were not close growing up (I now believe that my mother had/has mental health issues that were not addressed/something to do with her upbringing etc) and basically, I lacked a hell of a lot of emotional support (not like the sort of relationship I have with teen dc now). If I got back in touch with her (and I now believe it would have to be me who would instigate it), I suppose I risk more of those sort of hollow feelings - she never involved herself much with our lives and it was sort of an hourly contact each week. The problem is I dread something happening to her and we hadn't sorted things out (I don't think we will ever sort things out properly because she will never admit to being/doing anything wrong). One of my siblings lives near her (who also does not maintain contact with me, though it isn't directly his fault - another long story, he has issues) so she is not completely isolated (df lives in another part of the country) and from what I can gather she relies on visits from them and dog and drinks a fair bit. I feel a sense of guilt and I have not been feeling too well lately - call it hormonal related/midlife (off to see GP next week) but someone said had I still not seen my mum yesterday to which I broke down in tears (also recovering from flu). Please put some perspective on this. It's not that my mother would add or necessarily take away from my life - because contact was only minimal, yet still something. My mother has barely met one of my children and never met the other but I don't know if all these feelings have surfaced because I am having my own issues.

OP posts:
Cream5 · 01/01/2020 21:11

Write a letter to her and say what you want to say.

Hold on to it for a month and see if you want to send it, if you do, go ahead and send it.

It doesnt have to be an offer to rekindle contact, but you could put it to bed from your side so you no longer feel guilty.

User48675 · 01/01/2020 21:30

Thanks Cream. I thought about writing a letter today but actually conscious that it if I actually said what I wanted to say and sent it that it could cause her upset (so can't be true to my feelings). I'm not saying I want to vent at her and blame her etc. just state things as they are/how I feel and I can't do that because she would never accept what I have to say. I'm not sure what I would get out of this lot, just a less guiltier conscious and a physical mother who is not the mother I want her to be but nevertheless there (but not really there - I miss the mother that I should have had if that makes sense and I try to be this mother to my own dcs. and that is the positive spin off). My father is not around either. Always was emotionally absent and physically abusive at times as well as sarcastic etc. again loads of issues. I have no intention to contact him again, though I bumped into him in passing one day and just felt a ton of anger and then sadness, again about what should have been and what could be. It's a bit rubbish really. Both my parents are alive (but separated) yet, I have probably been grieving for them for years.

OP posts:
Gutterton · 01/01/2020 21:30

It’s about realistic expectations and boundaries.

Do you expect her to be a comforting, wise, compassionate mother, ready with open arms and an apology?

She won’t have changed and will have probably got much worse if she has continued to drink and her MH will have deteriorated also. She may be v bitter, angry and resentful.

So if you have zero expectations of her and can tolerate total rejection or some discomfort and conflict then decide if that’s what you want for YOU for some level of closure.

I don’t know the previous dynamics but then think v carefully what your boundaries will be. Do you just want to exchange birthday cards and pop by for a quick cuppa once a month/season/year? Or are you likely to get roped into her care - is this what you want? If she has been a long term drinker - it’s not going to be pretty (been there, go the T-shirt).

If you feel you don’t owe her anything but want to settle your differences for your own benefit - then consider it carefully.

Have an exit strategy, be prepared to get hurt but you might decide it’s a risk worth taking.

User48675 · 01/01/2020 21:45

Do you expect her to be a comforting, wise, compassionate mother, ready with open arms and an apology?

Thanks Gutterton. This is what I think is my fairy tale ending but it isn't going to happen is it because she would have knocked on my door by now.
The drinking bit I have heard second hand but unfortunately, I believe it might be true.
The catalyst was when I suffered a late miscarriage 5 years ago. I couldn't handle it at all and then had to console her (she was weeping on my shoulder) and then she kept calling to see if I was better yet/knew what had happened and I asked her to please give me a bit of space. Two weeks went by and she rang me shouting down the phone because I hadn't been talking to her (didn't call around - she doesn't live that far away). I hung up, that was the last of it. We had never had a close relationship but I had supported her a lot through her divorce, so never abandoned her. I felt as if her questions were intrusive. I think she was waiting for me to go and apologise but I was swamped in grief whilst trying to stay semi-sane for dc1 and dc2 and I let things drift.

OP posts:
Gutterton · 01/01/2020 21:55

Oh no. Shocking. I wouldn’t go near her. She is emotionally dangerous.

I am so sorry that you lost your baby.
And disgusted that your mother behaved so badly - at that time - and since. V selfish.

DeckTheHalls2019 · 02/01/2020 00:46

I've come to the conclusion that, as flawed humans, we need to lower our expectations of other people (including parents). So unless someone is deliberately being nasty or trying to hurt me I base contact on how they are behaving at this time, if they are being an arsehole I step back for a bit and try again later. If you feel it won't do you any harm then contact her, otherwise just accept it's over don't give her headspace.

So sorry about your baby.

madroid · 02/01/2020 00:56

It sounds like you do need to see her again for your own peace of mind. But Guttertons advice is good. Decide what the parameters of your contact will be before you get back in touch. What it is that you are offering and what you expect. Be prepared to communicate that clearly and repeatedly.
Good luck OP.

Gutterton · 02/01/2020 18:14

Xmas and NY is an emotional flash point for estranged families. It all comes to the fore. Maybe wait a couple of weeks and see how you feel then. And if you do decide you want to make contact know it is for your benefit alone - it’s unfathomable to me that a mother could abandon her own DD and DGCs at such a time of grief.

User48675 · 02/01/2020 19:30

It's unfathomable to me too, I could never do it, it's like parent child role reversal though parenting was never her thing, I don't think.

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Marigoldhorizon · 17/01/2020 20:06

Still debating this. I swing from life is too short and she is still my mother and extremely emotionally immature to this isn't going to end well and it will be rejection all over again. I think it is about closure but I'm not sure what level of contact I would want. I'm going through a bit of a mid-life thing at the moment and I am feeling particularly anxious. Been thinking about death a lot (have seen GP and been referred for CBT). This year feels like a real turning point and again the life is too short bit.

TheBouquets · 17/01/2020 20:34

It could be that your mum is very distressed and upset. She and your dad did not work out and that has caused emotional damage. Maybe she thought she had got married and would live happily ever after only it did not go that way in reality.
While I think your mum should have been the one supporting you when you lost your baby, I am sorry to hear that you lost a baby, but I think grandmothers also feel the loss of the prospective grandchild and perhaps she just could not manage to hide it from you.
I too keep clear of family members. Although it was years ago now all I can think about is that I wanted was ideally all my children to hug me and say it will be alright we will be with you. Even one of them saying that would have been a help but it was not to be.
It looks like you may be the more emotionally mature person. I can understand when you say that you worry about anything happening to your mum and you had not resolved this issue. My mum is dead now but I know that I did my very best to help her in her illness. I still miss her dreadfully. Maybe all the more so because when my life crumbled my children could not be supportive in any way. I doubt if I will ever get over the lack of compassion and humanity.
I would repeat something said to me many years ago. Don't leave yourself with anything to regret because once a person dies there is nothing you can do to rectify any problems.
If you can possibly manage it reach out to your mother and try to discuss what has gone wrong with you relationship. She most likely does love you but does not know how to deal wither feelings or your either.
Let us know how you get on. Good luck

Marigoldhorizon · 17/01/2020 20:46

The Bouquets, I found your post very moving and insightful. Are you estranged from your children - please pm me if you feel able to.

Marigoldhorizon · 17/01/2020 21:04

Unfortunately my mother is prone to not keeping private things private - so it is difficult to tell her anything anyway and she talks negatively about most things. Writing this I feel sorry for her but know I wouldn't get much out of our relationship. But I feel the need for closure or at least some contact I think.

xGAIAx · 14/02/2020 08:49

This is so sad, did you eventually make contact OP? It sounds like you need some sort of closure.

user48675 · 25/02/2020 19:49

Sorry, it looks as if I've used a couple of names when posting.

xG, I did visit my mother. I found it very emotional. I found her quite distant. She hugged me on the way out, the other hour and a half seems to be a bit of a blur. Shen said something about bridges needing to be mended after listening to how I felt after I had lost my little one - that her crying on my shoulder didn't help, I could barely manage my own emotions and carry on dealing with everyday life for the sake of my other 2 dc. She wouldn't look in me in the eye. She had removed all photographs of me/dh and dc.

She has not made any effort to contact me since this visit (she knows where I live and I don't think my phone number has changed). I'm trying to work out how a mother could be so distant/so disconnected. I am a mum of 3 dc there is no way I would let it get to this. My mother is 70 now. I don't know what else to do other than visit her again in a month or two. I have made the effort and I feel better for it, for having explained. I feel very alone because I have a living mother but one that apparently makes no effort. I don't know what I should have expected - she was never there for me as a child/growing up, it's like nothing is ever her fault/nor does she want to take any part of the blame. Just writing these words makes me feel angry and sad. I live with anxiety and the feeling that I am not good enough, then read how I should not carry on being the victim. Between her and my abusive father, they have done a fine job in destroying my self esteem/confidence. I am trying to work through my issues. I would like to support others who have experienced loss etc. and I'm thinking of taking a diploma in counselling (currently researching this at the moment), if only to help in a voluntary capacity.) The NHS mental health system is crap imo. I'm being offered CBT which I know can be effective re. anxiety issues but after what I've been through, I probably need help from a psychologist. Someone said to me once you either sink or swim. Yep, that's how I feel. It's a constant grief/longing for how things should have/could have been. Watching other parents of adult children can feel soul destroying particularly if they are supportive.

OP posts:
Gutterton · 25/02/2020 20:35

Thank you for updating. I am glad that you got “something” from the visit. I am glad you went into it informed having considered realistic expectations and your boundaries.

Be v careful now. Be clear what you want.

If it is her to change and be the good mother she should have been - know she can’t and won’t.

Your hope is that of a child - always hopeful - because that is when she abandoned you.

If you want to heal - it won’t come from any interaction with her. It will come from working on yourself DETACHED from her - learning to accept, adapt and heal.

Any interactions will undo any progress you make. Do your course - even the intro one - (I am doing this, it is life changing) keep learning and healing by understanding what happened to you and surrounding yourself with positive people.

You have suffered incredible neglect and abuse in childhood and then the worst trauma later in life.

She desperately failed you both times.

You and your DC deserve an emotional break now - for you to be healed and positive so that you can have joy and have a warm wonderful life.

If you get back in her life the relationship will rob you and your children of this opportunity. She will drain you emotionally and cast her shadow on your lives. You will end up being hurt she will suck up your time and headspace and you will by FOG end up being a full time carer to an elderly alcoholic.

If you do this you will not be able to be the best mother to your DCs.

Focus on them - don’t let her pollute and steal their childhood like she stole yours.

Choose to live in and create the joy and positive pleasure with your DC - not live in the pain, abuse, negativity and darkness of your DM.

You can’t be in two places at once. Choose wisely - she doesn’t deserve you. Your DCs need you and your deserve a lovely life with them.

user48675 · 25/02/2020 20:48

Gutterton - What a wise and thought provoking post, for example You can't be in two places at once. Perhaps the biggest thing for me was this intense feeling of guilt (before I visited her) which seems to have been appeased a bit because I have put the ball back in her court so to speak. I'm not sure how she would suck up my time though because she hasn't really asked anything of me (apart from when she went through divorce and I was right there by her side). I find her detachment difficult to get my head around, I almost admire her for being apparently so self sufficient. She was not supported by my father (but was by my grandparents who had us children a lot, to whom we turned but unfortunately my grandmother also seemed to drain my confidence by obviously making my brother her favourite and by saying how wonderful everyone else was/successful etc. The only time she used to smile was when I achieved something (my parents never seemed to smile and my father used to question why I had achieved a B grade instead of an A etc. and constantly belittling me. He lives abroad (largely now) and has nothing to do with me. I will re-read your post, I think I need it to sink in a bit. I am certainly having second thoughts about rushing back.
*Your hope is that of a child - always hopeful - because that is when she abandoned you.
Yes, a very valid point.

OP posts:
Gutterton · 25/02/2020 21:14

A child always has hope for the best outcome despite evidence of what has gone before with a parent. We are programmed that way to have unconditional love for our caregiver for survival as a child.

user48675 · 25/02/2020 21:54

Somebody once asked me (when I was a teenager) did I always walk in my father's shadow.
Somebody else said at around the same time that they felt sorry for me having a father like mine. I couldn't see it then (and probably didn't want to see it) and of course felt very defensive.
So your comment about unconditional love is very apt.
There was no-one to rescue me then. I think I have grown into a needy adult. Only low mood and anxiety seem familiar. A constant. Without proper grounding, I don't see how this can be changed. My dh seems to have some sort of inner confidence, I feel envious of people like this and don't think (mid forties) that I will ever possess it.

OP posts:
user48675 · 25/02/2020 22:05

Wasn't helped by the fact I was bullied at school, throughout my teens - taunted. I always felt different, I couldn't seem to fit in. No one went out of their way to be my friend. I was isolated. Younger years at school were happier though. I always thought my way out was to work hard. I got lost in books. I had a break down of sorts around twenty. Panic attacks got out of control. More grief ensued around this time - loss of a therapist in tragic accident, he helped me a lot and then my dearly beloved grand father (and best adult) died. I have attained a degree (a good one), had 3 dc and written a book, a novel (not yet published). I can achieve but my emotional IQ is dismal (though I have a couple of fairly good friendships), and I have never achieved in a professional capacity. I think though, of late, I have become kinder than I have ever been, more transparent, more authentic (though my anxiety still holds me back).

OP posts:
Gutterton · 25/02/2020 22:18

You have a lot of insight. You can achieve healing, confidence, positivity and joy with a good therapist. I have recently as has my DH - started at 51.

user48675 · 26/02/2020 13:07

Gutterton x I have received a fair bit of counselling over the years, none which has made any difference really. Have you read any good books on the subject? Also, what practical changes have you made if any in your life? Please pm me if not wanting to share on forum x

OP posts:
Guardsman18 · 26/02/2020 13:22

Hi user. I can't say anything more useful than Gutterton (such good advice).

Just to say that a book I found a few years ago was called Growing Up Again. Along with therapy, that helped me a lot with feeling about how I was parented.

Wishing you well.

user48675 · 26/02/2020 22:13

Thanks Guardsman x

OP posts:
user48675 · 07/04/2020 21:26

I know this thread is a couple of months old now. I had hoped to have entered psychotherapy but it is for very good reason, postponed due to the virus outbreak and I feel I just want to write a few thoughts down.

Well, over a month has passed and still nothing from my mother. Today, is my birthday and there was nothing, no card, no nothing. I think a part of me was hoping she would contact me, in an attempt to rebuild our relationship but I now realise I need to let her go. It is painful, so utterly painful and just recently after doing some reading around the subject, I have both cried and felt immense anger, almost rage at her lack of interest/neglect, this I understand, is part of the grieving process. But still, there is something within me that cannot let go of hope completely and I think I will continue to feel this way, so long as my mother is alive.

Tonight, I was remembering how she told me (during my first and last visit), that she still goes to bingo and has a 'laugh'. How can she laugh when she has effectively, loss contact with 2 of her 3 children? I feel angry that it was only me who shed tears during our last meeting and confused because she hugged me before I left and muttered something about bridges needing to be mended but still, cannot bring herself to send me a card. It feels to me, that I must do all the running and make amends but I don't feel I want to because I feel manipulated. I just don't know what makes her tick. My dad left because he (and she) were completely miserable for many, many years and I think, when he came into some inheritance, that he wanted to live out the rest of his life with some happiness. You, would have thought this would have meant my mother would be a greater part of her childrens' lives, she even said she still had her children and at the time, was crying and saying nobody loved her but in effect, she has driven 2 of them away.

Her home has become increasingly dilapidated and to be honest a bit dirty. My instinct, during my last visit, was to offer to pay to replace her bathroom because I didn't want to see her living in this way (lots of mould and dirty) and so a part of me, obviously cares, feels pity. She always insisted on a clean and tidy home as I was growing up and paid far more attention to this, than spending time with us children and if we tried to help, it was never good enough.

Being a mother myself, I cannot get my head around treating children in this way - neither them as a child nor as an adult, it would have to be something pretty diabolical to start the process of non-contact.

I think I feel a sense of shame, that something is very wrong with me and that I was/am unlovable. 'I would never have had children or perhaps one, if I had my time again'. 'It was all my fault that she smoked because I stressed her out' and 'I never wanted to be picked up and cuddled as a child' were all things she said to me during my teens. When I asked her why she stayed with my father after they had split up (my father was physically and emotionally abusive), she said 'well he always put a new car on the drive.' Where does such a bitter mentality come from, what makes a person this way? I have decided, my mother fits the criteria for an ignoring narcissist pretty well.

Sorry, I am rambling on a bit, but only in the past week or so have I truly begun to process all of this. Thanks to all of you for posting and thanks to Gutterton who has provided some very useful insights. I guess, I've got a lot to work through. I am hoping a sense of peace will eventually come and I can let go of most of this baggage but for now the anger and tears.

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