Dealing with a toxic ex

[NYE2019]

I have been dealing with my now XH for a year. He was a controlling bully and I am well rid.

He hasn't altered one bit. Sends ranting emails which go straight to my bin so I can read them when I choose to rather than having him disrupt my working day thought process. He is blocked on msg, phone and no longer has my home phone number.

DC (teen) doesn't want to see him often. I encourage contact, ask if they have been in touch most days saying things like 'have you been in touch with Dad, answer usually no. 'why don't you send him a 'good morning msg I am sure he would love to hear from you'.

They do not want to stay with him overnight and travel a few miles on the bus when visiting. Visits are once every three weeks on average with a couple of holidays here and there.

XH frequently shows who he is by being bitter and angry towards DC who says 'he was horrible mum, did that thing where he stopped walking and was loud in the street to get his point across', it was embarrassing. Yesterday he made a scene, grabbed DC's bag because they were walking away from his confrontation and then threw it on the floor (in the street).

He is full of vitriol towards me and sends me angry emails, says I need to tell DC the truth about our marriage. My response is that they know that I asked him to leave for a trial separation and that our marriage is now over, that I am an adult and DC a child and I think that they know enough. DC has witnessed too much as far as I am concerned, including him making them read emails between us.

His idea of a trial separation was to agree to leave for six months, join various dating sites, rent an unfurnished house and completely furnish it and refuse to speak to me or meet me at all – very quickly telling me the marriage is dead and he feels nothing for me. I filed for divorce within two months of him leaving.

This man cannot accept blame for anything, never has done. His take on DC not wanting to see him is that I am filling them with lies and I am destroying his relationship with them. He is doing that for himself, every time he sees DC, with his bitter behaviour.

I don’t talk about him really, often say things like he will always be your dad and he loves you/would love to hear from you/see you.

He wanted to introduce his girlfriend a couple of weeks into their relationship which DC found terrifying, wasn’t ready to hear he had one let alone meet them. That relationship ended and now he has another one. DC frets everytime they meet him ‘what if he brings his current girlfriend mum, I don’t want to meet her’.

I saw my GP a couple of times recently who was fantastic, she referred me to a domestic abuse charity to see if they had any ideas how to help me get through XH’s demands to have DC live with him (because his girlfriend of a couple of weeks had a few kids the same age and he wanted to create a big happy family). That threat disappeared when she dumped him. I haven’t managed to find the 60 minutes I need at home alone to go through the initial phone call with the charity but I will do that this week.

After seeing DC yesterday he is sending ranting emails, just like the ones he sent me during our marriage.

My GP and counsellor say that DC can make up their own mind about whether they see him.

He says I am destroying his relationship with DC by not telling them how our marriage broke down, which was all my fault (because I stood up to him), we limped along for the last three years.

He was a controlling bully with DC too at times. His behaviour was always extreme – he could be absolutely charming, or not.

I am just finding him really wearing. His continued twisting and turning words and demands with DC just don’t go away and of course he is their dad, he isn’t going to go away.

We are so not on the same page where DC is concerned - why the heck would you tell your child the ins and outs of the demise of your marriage - of course he doesn't want me to tell them how he was physical (once) but often used his physical presence to intimidate me (well he tried), only that I asked him to leave after years of being unhappy.

I would love DC to have a 'normal' every other weekend set up but that isn't going to happen here is it.

I am just not sure how to deal with him sometimes.

I wouldn't be encouraging your children to see their dad. They may feel conflicted and that is why are still engaging with him.

Maybe explain they have a choice if they don't want to. He sounds highly abusive and scary.

And no, this isn't going to be a regular kids seeing dad scenario because he is punishing you every chance he gets.

I'd be getting legal advice re the abusive emails as well

Thanks Windmill. I think they do feel conflicted and it is really tough on them because, like me, they can remember/sometimes see the charming Dad. I do think that they are working it out for themselves.

They do know that they have a choice. I find it really tough, I would hate them to look back and think I discouraged them from seeing him so I try to find some sort of middle ground.

My biggest fear - that he would try for some sort of custody arrangement - has recently disappeared. Whenever DC have been on holiday with him and his manipulative behaviour I spend a couple of days picking up the pieces emotionally. Any sort of shared custody would not be in their best interest.

He is the typical 'normal' guy with a crazy ex in the new life he has created for himself. I guess it must be hard to explain why your DC don't want to see you much in that scenario without a crazy ex.

Definitely stop encouraging them to see their dad. Their dad is an abusive man.

I think at 15 they are old enough that you can even stop telling them the 'daddy loves you in his own way' lie. All that's doing is making them conflicted. He isn't capable of loving anyone.

Stop reading his emails entirely. He doesn't get to send you bile and be listened to anymore.

You need to tell your kids that boundaries are important and to be respected and that you walked away because their father didn't have that respect. That they can see their father on their own terms as much ad they like, but never to let anyone disrespect their boundaries.

I certainly wouldn't be encouraging them to go stay with him for a weekend! With are you thinking with that!

They ideally need to come to the conclusion that their dad is a shithead on their own and cut contact. Yes, he will blame you, but so what. In a few years you will never have to communicate with him again so he can think whatever he likes.

You got out. Hopefully your kids will too. An abusive narcissist is no father to anyone.

Your ex sounds pretty dreadful which he is why he is your ex. Your child or children do not have to see him if they don't want to, later on they will probably want to meet up occasionally but not stay or go on holiday with him. They're not daft, he's difficult with them so they will realise how much more so he would have been with you.

You have done very well in the circumstances so please try to move on and enjoy your life with your family.

There's a big difference between encouraging, discouraging and staying neutral. At the moment you are encouraging the dc to see and contact him. Discouraging would be slagging him off, emotional blackmail (You love him more than me etc) and making contact difficult.

I'd advise staying neutral, sitting dc down and telling them, simply, that you will be lead by them. No more suggestions for daily contact, etc. Just that you will facilitate their choices as best you can.

No matter what you do he will never appreciate it. He's never going to turn around and thank you for suggesting that they text him daily, or for your encouraging them to continue seeing him. So give up that idea. He will blame you no matter what you do. So do what your dc want, let him rant all he likes (you could act like Jesus and he'll still blame you for something so stop trying to change that). New email address for him if the dc are too young to make arrangements themselves and you skim read once a day or once a week. Only read the parts about arrangements, ignore and grey rock everything else. If the dc are old enough arrangements can be made through them and you facilitate but not be in the middle of organising.

It sounds like dc already realise he's a twat! Let them make their own decisions and stop living in hope that he will realise and change out of love for them. He won't unfortunately. So supporting your dc choices is best for them, rather than encouraging (emotionally pushing) them into contact they may not actually want.

This could have been written by me but thrown in his affair (he’s still on and off with OW) and a year of court cases where he constantly moves the goal posts, meaning the kids are even more confused because dad doesn’t listen to them and only wants what he wants (he’s rejected every Cafcass report). I set up an email address just for him which I check once a week which means my dads aren’t disturbed by him. I have slowly learned that the only thing I can control is my response not his action and my response is now to ignore him. I have also accepted that I am not responsible for his relationship with his children and so I stopped doing some of what you do and let them find their own way. They know they can text, phone or see their dad anytime they want they don’t need me “encouraging” them all the time. I listen and don’t pass judgement or sympathise/empathise when they are angry or talking about how they feel about him. It’s bloody hard but Ex is an adult (allegedly) so I leave him to his childishness

It is hard Austin. When I leave DC to contact him under their own steam it rarely happens. I then get a load of grief via email. When I ignored him recently he contacted my family (who all think he is an abuser) and I would like to spare them that.

He is ever dramatic sends things along the lines of ‘are they well, alive, in hospital, in the country’ etc etc.

In his mind I ‘put immense pressure’ on DC and our home is full of ‘ranting’. They ‘don’t see him much to pacify me’. The pressure and the ranting left the building when he did.

It’s fine for a few weeks every now and then ... then he reappears like a bad smell.

Can you reframe the "spare my family" as "other people seeing his behaviour helps us all understand what he's really like" because you have every right to ignore him once you have confirmed children are not life threateningly unwell and are competently choosing not to see him.
Abusers thrive on secrecy and their victims wanting to spare other people the abusive behaviour.

They know what he is like.

I have had to take a bit of time to get used to the abuse label. It was only when I started seeing a counsellor before he left that I realised how awful things were.

I am strong and generally stood up to him, knew our marriage was wrong for a long time but took a while to pluck up the courage to go through with it.

The last few years were fairly awful, lots of conflict and confrontation. I voiced my wish for a divorce on several occasions but it took until a year ago for him to leave.

As far as he is concerned, Mr Perfect I am the abuser. Kind and loved by everyone in the world according to him, but only he knows the real me.🤷🏻‍♀️ Fairly normal behaviour for his type according to my counsellor.

It’s all so bloody wearing.

Why don’t you block his emails/social media? Your DS is old enough to decide for himself whether he wants to see his father.

How old are your dc? Are they old enough to make up the or own minds? Tbh I'd not be pushing a relationship with him into them. Sounds like he's abusing them too by making them read emails, putting them in the middle of his tirades and throwing bags on the floor etc.

As a result I'd block him completely, explain to the dc they can choose to see him, or not, and you'll support them whatever their decision is. He'll never be the good dad you want to be so your dc are your main concern. Tell your family what you are doing and they can block him too

I’d make it an absolute priority to speak to a DV charity, OP. I know it can be tricky to find the time though. They will completely understand and have some good suggestions for how to proceed. Have you heard about the Freedom programme, best done in a group, you get to meet other women going through the same thing, but can be done online? And read anything by Lundy Bancroft.
I know it’s wearing, to say the least.

Why are you hassling your children on a daily basis to have contact with someone who's abused them long term and still is? Why?

Have you paused to consider the impact of telling them his abusive behaviour is a reflection of his love for them? Do you really want them to grow into adults who think people who love you treat you like this? What a headfuck to hear that these frightening, controlling, distressing person "loves them".

He's not behaving like a father so why do you keep telling them unhelpful shit like "he'll always be your dad"? Are you trying to make them feel guilty about wanting to protect themselves from his abuse?

Would comments like these have helped you finally stand up to him and break away to protect yourself from his abuse?

I think if you're honest you're pushing contact and telling them these confusing lies to try and make your own life easier in the hope if you push it enough to get them doing what he wants he'll leave you alone. Rather than because it's remotely in their best interests. You are still allowing yourself to be controlled by him in ways that harm your children.

Have you done the Freedom Programme yet to learn about the impact of abuse on children? Www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

Your children will be traumatised from growing up with his abuse, and will be suffering on going trauma from his continued abuse. It's not just you who's been affected.

He was a controlling bully and I am well rid.

This statement holds true for your children too. If only you would allow them to experience the same safety as you.

Stop pushing this abuser on them whilst you protect yourself from him.

I have blocked everything I can - emails are the only thing that come through and go straight to bin which means I don’t get a notification and choose to look at them in my own time rather than being disturbed by them coming in.

I can’t block him entirely yet as our divorce isn’t completely finalised and I have done it DIY so I do need to deal with him, just not the vitriol and the issues surrounding his relationship with DC.

Fuck off only, I do not harass my DC daily. Asking if they have contacted him doesn’t come from a place of wanting an easy life.

He will be awful no matter what you do. You need to undo the years of habituation that make you want to keep the peace and keep him happy for a quiet life, remember that is why you are well rid!

You cannot and will not pacify him.

Therefore stop trying to manage him and do exactly what you and the dc WANT to do, don't coerce dc into contact they are unhappy about, they are old enough to choose. If your head hurts from his communication how do you think dc feel having you coerce them into contacting him every day? Stop doing that, give your dc freedom to protect themselves.

Set boundaries, stick to them and get on with making a drama free family life. You don't have to justify or explain to anyone beyond "he is abusive".

It is hard, you will take a while to get your head around the new normal with all of its drama free peaceful options and choices but you will get there.

Don't negotiate with a terrorist!

www.e-counseling.com/mental-health/what-is-the-grey-rock-method/

btw if there is any way possible for you to raise the money to pay a solicitor to finalise your divorce quickly then do it, a good solicitor will take this off of your shoulders and he will quickly tire of trying to rile you via an unflappable officer of the court.

I think that last post shows just how much he still affects you.

What the poster meant was stop ANY attempt at asking your DC to contact him .. easy life or not. Tell them they gave every right to decide whether or not to contact him. That you will support their decision

From your posts alone it is clear that you are dancing to his tune and cannot see how to stop. Pps have given good advice, no matter how harsh it reads to you.

Best of luck clearing your head of him

The divorce has been easy, everything is agreed, it is just waiting for the judge to sign off the consent order. My occupation means I don’t feel the need to pay a solicitor to do it for me.

I work 45-50 hours a week most weeks, the rest of my free time is generally devoted to DC, running them around to clubs, I pay for them to see a counsellor twice a month (not sure they are engaging tbh) and being at home when they are bar a swim/yoga once a week.

I live fairly rurally and make time to see my counsellor twice a month by going at 830am and going into work a bit late. I can’t imagine I would find a group to attend at a time that fits in. My counselling sessions work for me.

Your OP sounds very similar to my experience, although my ex had a long series of affairs and abuse. I do not discuss him with dc at all if I can avoid it (teenage). He is nothing to do with me and their relationship is his issue, not mine, he can maintain it as he sees fit. I walked on egg shells for a long time, not wanting him to be upset, to hope he would not upset dc. Not my problem now, I dont have to feign interest or enthusiasm for him anymore and have no idea if there are texts between him and dc, not my business.

How old Lolo? Nearly teen/early teen here so v young.

I am wondering whether it would be possible for you to deal with this man using an intermediary as he seems to be using your children as a means to get to you. My ex husband was emotionally abusive but not aggressive like yours (passive aggressive which is another level of mind games) but would try to use our daughter to get his own back on me. He tried to blame me for the marriage breakdown like yours. My strategy was to keep out of it, not fight my corner and wait until she was old enough to realise what an emotional retard he is which she did quick enough. She no longer sees him. These sorts ruin all their relationships, they can't help it.

Not immediately opening his emails is good but you are subject to their contents when you read them. I have asked my partner to screen emails for me to avoid the upset and to get any relevant information I needed. Could someone in your family or friend do that for you?

I am not clear about the ages of both your children but 15 is old enough to chose not to see your ex-husband and a judge would be unlikely to enforce any custody arrangement if your child didn't want it. Their unwillingness to contact him is an indication of their feelings about this. I fully supported my daughter's decision not to go to his house anymore, particularly when she was subjected to an abusive rant from his GF now wife. He blames me for their lack of relationship too. I don't care.

I really feel for you OP. The repercussions of an abusive relationship last a long time. I am still processing it, ten years later. But I am happy, my daughter is happy and I have met someone wonderful. It will get better once you are away from this vile man. Good luck.

Your ex sounds very similar to mine OP, he's a narcissist and is incapable of putting his DC first. I found learning everything I could about narcissism really helped me come to terms with the fact that he will never be the father I longed him to be and helped me see through his manipulative BS. This is all about power and control and has nothing to do with him wanting to be a good father. He has clearly shown this during his visitations with the DC by trying to turn your DC against you and involve them in the marraige breakdown (which is what many narcs do including mine). His time with DC should be about strengthening his relationship with them, not trying to destroy their relationship with their mother. Look up Lisa Romano and Little Shamen on YouTube for some really good videos on how to deal with these type of people.

If your DC are not keen on seeing him, I would stop all contact with the DC and wait for him to take you to court for an access order. CAFCASS should take the DC's perspective into consideration (especially if DC are older than 12) and they won't "force" contact even if he wins (well that's what they have told me anyway). You could raise all the points in your OP about how he behaves around the DC and ask for either indirect contact only or supervised contact. I think it would be worth getting a solicitor involved if he takes you to court and keep all of these arsey emails as evidence.

I'm going through this process now with my ex (we are in court in January) and I'm pretty confident they won't allow access as none of my DC want to see their father and I have so much evidence of the abuse. He was given so many chances to put his DC first but because he is a controlling bully, he prioritised his anger about me leaving him over the welfare of our DC and would also spend his visits with them going over why I'm such a terrible person etc.

It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that he will never stop being angry at me for daring to leave him, he will always blame me for his DC wanting nothing to do with him because he has no insight into his own behaviour, he will never be a responsible father who is capable of putting his DC first and he will always prioritise "winning" over any relationship he could have had with DC. Letting go of those expectations has been very liberating and it has helped me support DC in coming to terms with the loss of the father they always wanted but doesnt exist. These people are incapable of loving anyone in the true sense and cannot be healthy parents. Your job now is to protect your DC from their fathers toxicity and go no contact