How would this be likely to work if we split?

[Sharkyfan]

Just working through things in my mind.
Partly thanks to Mumsnet (posted various times under different usernames about sulking/avoidant DH), I have found that I’m moving to a place of no longer being afraid of the possibility of separating.
I’m going to see if I still feel the same way after Xmas and try and set up counselling (just for me) and/or a visit to a solicitor.
But does anyone know from experience how the money side would work?

We are fortunate in that we live in a beautiful big house, but there is no way we could stay here if/when we split.

I would love it if DH was in agreement with splitting and it was amicable but I suspect it won’t go that way.

The majority of our ‘wealth’ has come from him in that he has a well paid job and had bonuses in the past that enabled us to get on the housing ladder and do home improvements to our first house. Then we moved to our current house partly with the help of his inheritance from his parents who sadly both died in their 60s.

Thankfully I have maintained my career but I’m part time in the public sector and he earns about 5 x what I do.

We have 3 dcs ranging from 4-12.
I am main caregiver so would anticipate them being with me apart from every other weekend or something.

Round here we would need £650K minimum to get a 4 bed house for me and the kids so they could have their own bedrooms.

I reckon there’s maybe £900k-1million equity in the house? A bit of savings around but not much. The running costs of the house push us to the limit each month.

I’m just worried that as this won’t be DHs choice he won’t take kindly to the idea of him ending up in a flat or small house when he’s been used to living in this lovely big house and I know he sees it as ‘his money’.

Do you think I would get 50/50 or would it be fair to get a larger proportion because of the kids even though he could argue it was ‘his money’ we used for the house?

We’ve been married 15 years.

Look I am not a lawyer and you need proper advice
I would say though that it’s always a good idea to manage your expectations, and you might have to be willing to compromise. It is not always the case that we can protect the DC by trying to recreate the environment after divorce - it’s a time of a fresh start. You need to be able to afford to run a 4 bed home by yourself and if that is not practical or viable, you might need to consider options B and C as well

OP - you’ll really need a solicitor’s advice.

However - based on the information in your post:
It won’t matter where the assets came from - inheritance, his wages, etc - all of them would be considered marital and likely to be split 50/50.
His pension prior to marriage might be in or out of marital assets.

With ~500K/person equity in the house - the judge would likely consider that be adequate for each of you to re-house. There is enough foe a large deposit/small mortgage OR you could move a little further away and afford a house outright.

Given the children’s ages - and you H’s salary you might be eligible for spousal maintenance too - while your kids are at school. And you’ll probably be expected to go full time once youngest goes to secondary.

Also - given that you say H most likely won’t be amicable - unless you have enough grounds for unreasonable behaviour - you might have to wait for 2 years of separation. And unpleasantness that comes with that no man’s land.

I’m in Scotland and during a separation spoke to a solicitor as in our case, I was the one with the inheritance and earned twice what H did. I was told that as I got the inheritance when married and used it to buy the house (joint names) then it would be considered a marital asset and H entitled to half - but I could argue he had benefitted by paying less interest on mortgage so I would potentially get more. If he is a big earner, what about his pension? The amounts you are talking about you really need a good solicitor. Good luck - it’s not easy.

Thanks everyone
Hadn’t even thought about pension, obviously it’s much more than mine and he only started paying into one a couple of years before marriage.
I will need to see a solicitor. I know we’re fortunate and kids will be ok and have a roof over their head I just feel so guilty if my decision means they end up having a much lower quality of life than we have now.
I couldn’t move to a cheaper area and maintain my job or their current (state) schools really. They are strong characters and with the age gaps I can’t see sharing rooms working too well.
No problem with upping my hours once younger one is older:

I could only manage to afford a mortgage if he paid me something as I only earn about £1200pm and he earns over £5000pm

It is just in my experience it doesn’t work like that, not as easily. You can’t keep your part time hours and everyone has a bedroom and he pays for everything else. He’s going to expect to be housed too. You will likely have to really consider working full time sooner than you would ideally like but you need the income. This is why you need good advice.

Remember...your DH would be "entitled" to half as well... including having the children half of the time... so he too would need a 4 bed house if" sharing rooms would not work too well".

Be careful how you couch your terms, if it is not amicable, it can be thrown right back at you to justify his arguments too.

There’s no way he would have them half the time - he is hands off to the extreme, one of the long list of reasons I’m not sure I can carry on.
But yes I realise he will need somewhere with space for them to stay.
And he has a hobby that means he likes where we live now as he can not worry about noise. So that will also limit him a bit as he would not like to be a flat or a terrace for example.
I would love it if it was amicable and I do believe he is not happy either and we might both be happier living apart but I am just not sure how he will take it and as I say I know he does not see our money as ‘ours’ but rather ‘his’ (another of the long list of reasons)

Dont bet on him not wanting half custody. He can afford a very good part time nanny.

Do you work full time now? And wanting 4 bedrooms doesnt mean you get it.

You need specialist advice especially high earners are usually very good at hiring assets and may have already been doing so, if he is unhappy.

Ok thanks all.
Bit of a reality check
I will be sure to get professional advice before doing anything.

I’m part time - half a full time post.
Am lucky that my working pattern means we don’t need any regular childcare apart from breakfast club and I do all pick ups and drop offs. He’s out the house 7am - 8.30pm normally and also travels abroad quite a lot.

The good news is being married the laws kind to married women in your situation

BUT you should plan to work again , and to
Compromise on space

Plan for the worst case scenario and get a copy of a decent family law book and read it over the holidays

It wont be a given that you can stay part time especially since your fulltime work would give a decent wage

With that much equity I would bank it and rent somewhere extremely nice for a good while and stay part time. At the moment there’s only one way house prices will go and it ain’t up!!

The majority of our ‘wealth’ has come from him in that he has a well paid job and had bonuses in the past that enabled us to get on the housing ladder and do home improvements to our first house. Then we moved to our current house partly with the help of his inheritance from his parents who sadly both died in their 60s

The majority of your wealth has been earned by you both. Him in paid employment and you in unpaid employment of looking after his house and bringing up his children, doing his washing and cooking his meals.

Could he have built such a career, earned these large bonuses etc while working school hours and never travelling away from home ?

He chose to use his inheritance to buy a bigger house which he has enjoyed living with his children and you ( presumably ) have cleaned and cared for. You didn’t make him do this.

You need to find out the value of his pension, for many couples pensions are a bigger asset than the house.

I agree he is likeLy to hide assets so you need to play detective and get legal advise first before you talk to him.

Is he works abroad he may be able to move money away very quickly.

I’m just worried that as this won’t be DHs choice he won’t take kindly to the idea of him ending up in a flat or small house when he’s been used to living in this lovely big house and I know he sees it as ‘his money’.

Wouldn't you? Why does he have to be the one to leave, because believe me, he won't go softly. I probably wouldn't, either. He's well entitled to half, too, if not more. And he'll be able to afford to outsource a lot.

Bit of a reality check, but a friend just got a divorce from a similarly high earning spouse. He got a shit hot lawyer. They had been married for over 25 years. She sure as hell didn't get to doss whilst he paid for it.

Clean break is favoured by courts now over spousal maintenance, as circumstances can change and then you'd have to go back to court if they do.

You'll be expected to work FT to support the kids, too.

You need a lawyer but seriously, the idea that you're going to be able to get him to pay for a 4 bed house, pay you to stay at home, get pensions and everything else is overly optimistic.

Legal advice

I think it’s slightly unrealistic if you to expect the nice house, bedrooms each, same area and to keep working part time while he gets what? A small flat? Full time stress and you think he should probably help you too...,

You’ll need to mom at all assets, possibly downsizing to much smaller property, possibly increasing hours. Yes you may get some spousal ( or maybe not) but unlikely to be indefinite. It sounds like you don’t want your life to change but want him to keep funding. Can’t imagine why he’s not likely to go quietly

I think the advice is good
You need to go into this with a worse case plan not the ideal one as I think you could end up really disappointed.

I will say though that even with the compromises and changes, it doesn’t mean the DC will be unhappy. You need to manage their expectations as well, and that this is a new life you are going into. Not a worse one, just a different one. You are not in poverty, and you have a career which is your starting point. What you gain on top of that is a bonus.

Taking apart all of the reasons for the split realistically he will also have to compromise on this hobby if it means he has to downsize, but that isn’t for you to manage. You just manage your end of things.

No child had a terrible childhood based on having to share a bedroom or a converted dining room bedroom for instance. There are different ways to make things work

For the purposes of a reality check and I take no pleasure in saying it.

If he won’t take kindly to being in a flat then it’s very likely he will seek advice on how not to end up in a flat. They will put him straight on how to about it.

For the purposes of divorce, his legal advisers will be telling him to ask for more time with his children. This will support his needs for a 3-4 bed house. Just like yours. He will say he is willing to spend more time with them. He will be willing to share the burden of home making in order to allow you to become more of a bread winner.

He will push for you to maximise your income, through Increased hours. He will resist spousal maintenance. Divorce is an active decision to financially sever, so if a clean break is possible it will be the way forward. You already have a career and he will argue that you can increase hours.

It doesn’t matter how highly strung your kids are, they can share a room. Unfortunately it is very unlikely he will be forced into a flat whilst you get a 4 bed house. Two 3 bed terraces if affordable is more likely.

Get a really good solicitor, see if you can get some recommendations from someone you know who has been through the same situation as you. You might need to see several for an initial meeting before you find one you really like - I went with the third solicitor I saw and he was brilliant.

Good luck.

It will all come down to yours, his and kids’ needs and the total income available to you two.
It’s men who earN a little of money don’t think of it as joint - but rather ‘theirs’. They of course completely discount/forget the fact that their ability to earn and work long hours relies on their partners carrying all domestic/childcare load.
Also - men like that often initially start saying they want 50/50 childcare. And aggressively push for that. You’ll need to stand firm on that and see if it’s in the best interest of the children. No family court would grant him 50/50 if his plan is to hire a nanny until he is home at 7:30, while the part time working mother is available to provide childcare. And given that you have been a primary caregiver you’ll have a strong case.
You’ll just need mental strength to withstand threats of court. Because in the end, he won’t want to go to court over that.

You do need a good solicitor who would help you prepare the forms and statements and lay out your case. You have a lot of things going for you - and our youngest is still very small. So it’s very likely you’ll manage to agree several years of maintenance - no full time job until they are bigger.

As to sharing rooms and having non-detached houses - everybody would need to have a compromise. There is only as much money as there is.
And both of you have the same housing needs as kids will be with both for a long time.
But as I said - you do have a significant equity in the house and that would only require a rather small mortgage.

Good luck

Because in the end, he won’t want to go to court over that.

I really wouldn't count on that with a man like this. I would definitely go with the suggestion that you reall consider the worst case scenario, because men like this can truly make your life hell in divorce. You are not going to be able to maintain the lifestyle you have now and expect him to fund it.

No family court would grant him 50/50 if his plan is to hire a nanny until he is home at 7:30, while the part time working mother is available to provide childcare.

Thata simply not true. And given op is actually a decent earner, its possible she would be expected to work full time.....and use childcare to facilitate that.

I would never count on spousal or child maintenance to pay a mortgage as it can be varied after the first year. He could decide he's going to work part time just like you. He could also push for 50:50 and simply pay for a nanny/housekeeper. You need legal advice and be ready for a long drawn out fight.