How would this be likely to work if we split?

[Sharkyfan]

Just working through things in my mind.
Partly thanks to Mumsnet (posted various times under different usernames about sulking/avoidant DH), I have found that I’m moving to a place of no longer being afraid of the possibility of separating.
I’m going to see if I still feel the same way after Xmas and try and set up counselling (just for me) and/or a visit to a solicitor.
But does anyone know from experience how the money side would work?

We are fortunate in that we live in a beautiful big house, but there is no way we could stay here if/when we split.

I would love it if DH was in agreement with splitting and it was amicable but I suspect it won’t go that way.

The majority of our ‘wealth’ has come from him in that he has a well paid job and had bonuses in the past that enabled us to get on the housing ladder and do home improvements to our first house. Then we moved to our current house partly with the help of his inheritance from his parents who sadly both died in their 60s.

Thankfully I have maintained my career but I’m part time in the public sector and he earns about 5 x what I do.

We have 3 dcs ranging from 4-12.
I am main caregiver so would anticipate them being with me apart from every other weekend or something.

Round here we would need £650K minimum to get a 4 bed house for me and the kids so they could have their own bedrooms.

I reckon there’s maybe £900k-1million equity in the house? A bit of savings around but not much. The running costs of the house push us to the limit each month.

I’m just worried that as this won’t be DHs choice he won’t take kindly to the idea of him ending up in a flat or small house when he’s been used to living in this lovely big house and I know he sees it as ‘his money’.

Do you think I would get 50/50 or would it be fair to get a larger proportion because of the kids even though he could argue it was ‘his money’ we used for the house?

We’ve been married 15 years.

Thank you everyone
I think most people understood the situation - but for the few who commented on me ‘expecting’ him to pay for me to stay at home - I am not at home, I work pretty much all the hours they are at school as far as my commute allows. I have sacrificed my career progression in order to be there for the kids.
I don’t care about my own standard of living, or pension, or having a big house once the kids have left, it’s about them.
Of course I will seek advice but it sounds like I should probably base my expectation on 50% which may get me a big 3 bed/small 4 bed perhaps.
When I posted on my other thread/s about his behaviour it was pretty unanimous support for LTB but I have to take everything into account.
I couldn’t stay with him for the lifestyle or the money and actually hate feeling like I have no control or say in our finances. But I have to weigh up what my kids stand to lose against what they might gain by not being around him all the time and not bearing witness to our relationship which is not a good example of how women should be treated. Plus whether I can physically bear to carry on as we are.

Currently my full time salary would be about £40K and we live in the south east.
I accept I may need to up my working hours and use childcare to facilitate that.

But then he would have to accept they couldn’t do all their after school activities that I ferry them to which he has always seen as important

Check entitledto.org.uk for a calculation on how much tax credits you would get (everything helps).

You can also check what is the minimum child maintenance he would be expected to pay by visiting the child maintenance service website (CMS).

One piece of valuable advice: do not fight in court for child maintenance, no matter how fantastic it could be. He can apply to CMS and bring it down to the minimum specified.

... within a year

OP your saying all the right things, wanting what's best for the dc but remember you chose to have more than one and was luckily enough to be there when they come home from school etc.
Also have you thought if your dc have an issue with sharing a bedroom how are they going to manage with your separation? Or how you will,
You need to get real, because even a solicitor will spin you a to good to be true story of what your entitled too.

Also he could very well go for 50/50 and have to pay you a heap less, especially if you paint the picture that he isn't a interested df.

Check entitledto.org.uk for a calculation on how much tax credits you would get (everything helps).

There are no more tax credits for new claims and there haven't been for over a year. It's all Universal Credit, the terms are much stricter, and she is not likely to be entitled to any except perhaps some assistance with paying for childcare, especially with any liquid assets over 6k.

Honestly, OP, I'd plan a lot more and not make snap decisions. I've seen far too many friends who have been married longer get totally screwed and wind up with years of to'ing and fro'ing with solicitors and court.

I'd first hire a forensic accountant for starters. People like this are very adept at hiding money and assets.

"Global maintenance" could be useful for you OP, and a "mesher order". Look into both.

Forget "fair". He won't be "fair", guaranteed. Get the max you are legally entitled to. Listen to your solictor. Contrary to popular opinion, in the UK they are more likely to downplay what your outcome could be than exaggerate your prospects. Many are "collaborative". This isn't the States.

One financial settlement, once. There are no do overs. Get this right, not just for he children, but also for you. You matter too.

Your H’s income is a lot higher than CMS’s top end of income, so you will be able to claim extra court mandated child maintenance. And your lawyers should be able to structure it such that he won’t be able to change it after a year without costly court proceedings.

Second - if your H is a successful and ambitious professional - as he sounds to be - he will be aggressive and spiteful and bullying during the process as he’ll see it as parting with HIS money.
So he will threaten you with all kinds and court proceedings.
However - while he is possibly likely to go to court over financial resolution - child arrangements arguments are a whole different court proceedings. And two courts are just too expensive, and after a period of threats men like him end up coming to their senses and remembering that their ambitions and careers matter to them more. So any talk of working less normally are just threats that go nowhere.
And given his income - he’ll be expected to cover his and your court costs. So a high bar.

So - he’ll start by saying he wants to have 50/50, to scare you. And you’ll need to be prepared. The more you can show that he isn’t an involved parent the stronger your case would be. I’d start a diary now - when he leaves/comes back. How often he has meals with the children, how often he attends their performances and teachers meetings, etc.
And family court looks at the best interest of the children - and his ‘intention’ to work less or part time won’t be a convincing argument. And yes - if the children are used to you as the primary childcarer for years - family court will not think that it’s in their best interest to spend time with a nanny instead of you.
IF your financial settlement in fact allows you to be part time for a while still.

OP - divorce is a long and unpleasant process. And embarking on it is the last resort after you are sure without a doubt that you can’t live the way you live any longer.
Be sure you are at that place before you start.

Also - if you can piece together a good snapshot of your financials (statements, etc) before you start - it’ll help you, in case he in fact start hiding anything.

Thank you for all the good advice.
It all sounds quite scary and I’m not sure if I’m strong enough.
I think I need to prioritise counselling and would like to try again to get him to go to couples counseling although in the past he has refused as he doesn’t see the point, and on another thread it was suggested that some of his behaviour was emotionally abusive and therefore it wouldn’t be recommended to do counselling together.

We have actually had a pretty good day and he has been on ‘good form’ but it’s the fear/apprehension hanging over me that the slightest thing might trigger a big sulk/silent treatment/atmosphere

You sound a really nice person OP but you have to decide how much you need to or want to split versus how much you basically want a very similar lifestyle. I’m not kidding when I suggested if you really do feel you want to leave but want a similar lifestyle, rent a great place with your equity and gradually build your hours up again. The obsession in this country with having to buy - especially at the moment with a downward property market likely is nuts. Keep the cash/ equity and maybe buy again in the future or indeed if you meet someone else etc, otherwise if it all comes down to whether you can split but still have a 4 bed detached house and a part time job , I don’t think you really really want to leave that much to be honest.

Do not fall off the housing "ladder", under any circumstances. Even if you need to sell, buy smaller or further out. But do buy, sell and buy into the same market.

There is a reason divorced women are the poorest OAPs and that reason is old age renting.

OP

It’s important that you have a realistic vision of what a divorce outcome will be. There’s lots of misconception about what you can get. Most pps are basically saying go into this with your expectations dampened and with a good understanding of what you can achieve.

The less informed you are and the more unrealistic, then the more time and money you will waste pursuing his agreement to things that are unachievable and not in your interests.

There’s a reason why the system favours the clean break option as the way forward. It severs all financial ties between you and him. It moves you into a position of financial independence. This reflects your own decision to divorce and have no future relationship with him other than as a coparent.

There’s no reason I can see that would stop you divorcing in the circumstances you describe. You are not trapped in this marriage financially. The assets are at least in the region of £1m, you have an income and earning potential far above the national average, you will be entitled to significant CMS.

There’s also no reason why you both can’t come out of this with reasonable and comparable homes. His income is high and that means he can get a high mortgage. This reduces his need from the asset pool. Your relatively low income increases your need for more of a share.

By the sounds of it you want to be mortgage free or least have a very small mortgage. That would allow you to live off a PT wage, UC and CMS. That might be an achievable goal if you waive a share of the pension in favour of a bigger share in the house equity. But you need to them think about your own pension.

Divorcing whilst young means you have the time and earning potential to recover financially. Waiting until you are in your 40s or 50s makes it more difficult. The career and salary sacrifice become to great a hurdle to overcome. CMS and UC won’t be available to you and mortgages and pensions will be out of reach.

You will not necessarily be told to work work full time by a court - not with a young child to look after.

Don’t be panicked by everything, it’s overwhelming at first but after an hour or two with a decent solicitor it will be much clearer. And you’ll be fine. You’re well off with loads of equity. If you want to do this, do this.

First of all - divorce leaves everyone poorer . You cannot expect to stay on in your previous lifestyle . You need to see a lawyer and I would pay jointly for an actuary to assess what a fair division would be of assets - house, pension etc . You could move forward on this basis . Do NOT accept equity instead of a share of his pension . Because of the children you will get more than the 50% . As you work already it's highly unlikely you will get any spousal . It is irrelevant where his money came from . It's all about "balancing the books" so that you both have a fair share going forward . As regards your children sharing , well they have been lucky to have had separate bedrooms so far . After saying all this it is essential for you to see a solicitor so they can look at your own personal circumstances.

No one can realistically tell you how this will go but Lemon’s post was really good

It’s just about managing your expectations and having multiple options. If you only have 1 option, and stick to that rigidly then you have nothing to bargain with and a lot more to lose than the other party.

There is nothing more important in yours and your DC lives than shutting your front door and feeling safe and happy. Everything else is just window dressing. Please remember this when considering what you are “losing”

Doodleygirl, is absolutely right. That feeling of going into your home with the tension palpably lifting off your shoulders is what it all about. I went from a house in right area to flat in the wrong area. It was worth it. As was having my own money, my own home, my own pension and my own career. It can take a decade to rebuild but you have the ability to do that. You don’t need him to have a good life. You really don’t.

Thank you for all the advice

Yes I have long fantasised about having my own little house with the kids where I can have control and make decisions.

Shutting the door and feeling safe and happy sounds amazing.

But it is a massive thing as I’ve been rightly reminded about on this thread, and a process.

I’m much further on than I was this time last year (when I was just as unhappy) because now I’ve confronted the possibility in my mind I think/hope I won’t be so afraid to raise things with him and to call him out on his behaviour.
I was also scared of going to counselling by myself previously because I suspected the conclusion that I might come to, if that makes sense.

I can’t quite work out why, but something has just shifted.

And my gut says that it’s not within his capacity to change and for things to get better but I still need to make sure I can say in future that we/I tried everything to make it work so I think that’s what 2020 has to be about, as well as getting my ducks in a row.

OP I ended up with nothing at one point and have had to rebuild and I am still happier!
So is my DD2, she literally is so unmaterialistic I misjudged that. All she wants is me and her cat in her life. She’s 15 and that’s what makes her happy!

Why do you have to try everything to make it work? This is just a phrase borne out of a now outdated societal belief that you have to stick with marriages through thick and thin.

He isn’t the right person for you. If he was then the question of trying wouldn’t come into it. All relationships require work and effort. But within reason and not at the expense of your happiness or mental health.

There isn’t a person in this world you owe and explanation to for leaving a bad or just not good enough relationship. Not your family, not your friends and not the wider world. You don’t even have to justify it to him.

Your children also need to learn that if a relationship doesn’t work, then they should walk away before it becomes a toxic mess.

OP it might be worth seeing a solicitor for some specific advice for your situation. I work full time and get spousal maintenance, so it's not true that that 'never' happens for example.

I've read a lot of similar threads on MN and there are always so many replies effectively implying that women who expect high settlements from their high earning spouses are somehow 'gold digging' or don't deserve what is actually a fair settlement for them and their children. It makes me really mad and frankly I think it stems from jealousy often. Okay, so you are in a much more fortunate position than a lot of women divorcing but why should you and your children have to give up the sort of lifestyle you have all become accustomed to if he doesn't? You facilitated his ability to earn a high salary, progress in his career and earn bonuses etc and without you at home picking up the no doubt considerable slack, he wouldn't have been able to do so.
You shouldn't be made to feel guilty about taking a fair share of assets for yourself and your children. Especially when your career has been on the back burner while his thrived. Good luck!