Avoidant DH

[whonoes]

Is anyone else married to somebody who is avoidant dismissal? Can you give me your experiences please? I’ve realised that trying to argue my corner doesn’t work because he then gets to strop off and disengage which is exactly what an avoidant dismissal wants. How do you actually engage with somebody with AD and get your needs met or have the ability to express dissatisfaction with something?

I am afraid my experience wasn't very positive @whonoes. After 20 odd years of being ignored and manipulated I decided enough was enough and got out. By that stage my self esteem was shot to pieces and I have been in therapy since to repair the damage. He suddenly decided that he wanted to go to couples therapy but manipulated the whole thing in his favour. When I told him I wanted a divorce, he didn't say a word, left the house and handed me a letter the next time I saw him. It was full of complete mental nonsense, nothing about losing me, feelings etc.

My marriage was emotionally abusive for the following reasons:

He saw me as the problem and convinced me that wanted intimacy and connection with your partner was 'wrong' so I carried the blame for all those years which prevented me leaving sooner.

I was housekeeper, cook, childcare etc like something out the 1950s because such things were beneath him. I had to fight to share finances and then realised once the marriage was over he completely lied about his income. He also lied about assets in the divorce.

His arrogance was phenomenal. He didn't greet people who came to the house or bother to interact with others on social occasions unless he felt like it. A lot of people didn't like him which was isolating for me.
He kept me in my place using passive-aggression. You never quite knew where you were with him. He would make agreements then do as he wanted. He had absolutely no respect for my feelings or anything I wanted. If he didn't want it, it didn't happen yet to the outside world he was Mr Nice Guy. He did some absolutely crazy things to 'get back' at me.

Any attempts to resolve conflict were dealt with by stonewalling and disappearing. Another method to get his own way.

I raised our child single handedly whilst he over-indulged his hobbies. He couldn't bare to be in the same house as us and had umpteen excuses to disappear off. He barely knew our daughter when we split up and had no compulsion about dropping her when he met a new victim to 'lodge' with. He used her for company until that point.

He wouldn't walk next to me when we were out. Had to be yards ahead, walking fast so you couldn't catch up.

Getting rid of him is the best decision I ever made and I am now with someone who is securely attached and the difference is astonishing. It has never been easier being with someone who is open with his feelings from the beginning, is keen to resolve any conflicts and has nothing to hide.

Sorry OP but these types are misery makers. You won't change them without a lot of therapy so in answer to your question you don't get your needs met because they are happy keeping you at arms length which meets their needs for distance. You don't get to express dissatisfaction because they really don't care about your feelings. That was my experience. I really hope you have a better experience.

You’ve described my experience almost exactly apart from the childcare and housework. He is involved in that, now. He wasn’t when kids were babies. I’m sure you probably understand what I mean. I recognise the walking in front experience. I find it so humiliating and frustrating. The constant dropping of my hand, wiping his lips after I kiss him etc etc stonewalling and disappearing are currently happening. The silent treatment or the “withdrawal” as I call it. Zero conflict resolution unless I go crawling. It’s always the same. I just wondered if anybody had any luck getting through to somebody like this and getting their needs met. I’m really glad @Dacquoise that you found a secure person. How did you manage to find him and how did you not fall into the trap of being attracted to an avoidant again?

I went through the trauma of the divorce, got into therapy and read everything I could lay my hands on about dysfunctional families and narcissism. I became my own expert on psychology really and in the process was able to access my feelings and learn what to avoid in future.

I ended up with this emotional retard because he was so like my parents and my mother in particular. She was cold and distant when I was a child, highly narcissistic and used me as both a surrogate parent and scapegoat. Look to your upbringing regarding the reasons to be attracted to these sorts. I didn't know any different when I met him. He seemed okay.

I didn't date for a number of years after my divorce, concentrated on my child but had a hiccup in my first relationship post divorce. Ended up with another version of avoidant. However I was strong enough to let that one go, thankfully, went back to therapy and things have gone uphill ever since.

I found my current partner online and soon realised how different he is to any other relationship I have ever had. He is so open with his feelings, really cares about me and shows it in so many ways. He doesn't play games. I think it's really down to spotting the manipulators. If they don't talk about their childhoods or feelings. How much information they share about themselves.

I am really not sure there's anything you can do with a dismissive avoidant. They are comfortable with their status quo and will not alter to suit someone else. My ex husband showed a ruthless disregard for both me and our daughter. He has a second wife and having been dragged through the court recently because he didn't want to abide by our divorce settlement I have witnessed the nastiness that was hovering underneath his personality.

I really hope that you are considering getting out. You only have one life.

Can I ask what happens when you argue with your current partner? How does conflict get resolved? I’m interested to know what it’s like with somebody “secure”. Having any disagreement with an avoidant is hellish. No resolution just silent treatment and withdrawal punishment. Every communication about anything important is difficult.

Gosh, so much of this is familiar.

I'm currently going through a separation & my "D"P has so many of these traits: the passive aggression, lack of communication, narcissistic traits.

It's very difficult to resolve problems when he just shuts down, then hits back through PA behaviour.

For example, in the past we had a bad patch when, at 36 & after 5 years together, I wanted to start a family. I gave him a timeframe & said I would leave after that as I couldn't continue. He begged me to stay & I got pregnant.

Unknown to me, he hit back by having at least 1 affair, punishing me because I was apparently emotionally blackmailing him to have a child. So blaming me for his choices.

In my case, I have co-dependent traits, and am working on them. He is your "Mr Nice Guy" Covert Narcissist.

Despite years of therapy, he remains the same & there is not a way forward for me.

You're just describing domestic abuse. It's not a different kind of abuse or special or unique, it's garden variety domestic abuse. Whatever "reason" or excuse he's come up with or you're holding onto, it's just abuse.

You can't change him. You can't stop this.

But you could do the Freedom Programme course, gather the information they have for you and decide what you want to do next. Www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

Long term, being abused like this will destroy you.

Hi @whonoes, the difference with a secure person is very marked. If we disagree about something we will 'both' show our annoyance with each other. There may be raised voices and we will argue from our point of view. If the other person still doesn't 'get' it, we let things calm down which may take a bit of time depending on emotions. Then we come back together and discuss what's happened to try to find a solution or agree to disagree. We both apologise, kiss and make up and it passes over.

As you know, with a dismissive avoidant, you get annoyed with his behaviour or a situation and he goes silent or physically withdraws. The next time you see him, he acts as if nothings happens. If you do get some sort of agreement out of him, you can bet your bottom dollar, he will just carry on with whatever it is because it suits him. I have never had an apology from my ex-husband in 20 odd years of knowing him although I have apologised plenty because he had a way of manipulating me into believing I was 'emotionally unstable' which translates to having emotions. Once I got 'out of the fog' I realised how ridiculous, irrational and deficient he is as a human being.

@MakeMineALargeProsecco, yep know all about the punishment. When I had the audacity to get pregnant I was punished by him completely withdrawing for the whole nine months. We were not allowed to have a single conversation about the impending addition to the family, he never attended any antenatal classes, showed no interest or excitement. When she was born he didn't contact anyone to let them know and managed to have a 'very important meeting' the day I came out of hospital so I was pretty much on my own and left to it. The health visitor had to point out that I needed help with drinks and food.

My ex husband worked away most of the week and I suspect he was playing around. I found contraception in a case when we broke up. I only realised after we divorced that he must have been using most of his leave on some of these 'working away' days, probably for his hobby but who knows (or now cares!)

@ohwheniknow, I don't think anyone is claiming it is anything other than abuse although when you are in it you can't see it. I do think it's part of the process to try to understand where they are coming from as it's so frustrating/baffling/mad-making. Have a look at this jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-dismissive-avoidant I suspect the Op is starting to realise what she has married. It will take time to act, if that's what she decides to do. It's not a black and white decision. The manipulation is slow and insidious.

Looking back I now see, as I have just said, how ridiculous these characters are. They are unformed adult/children, incredibly selfish and very, very damaging to those around them. I ended up disassociating and with Stockholm syndrome because I didn't know which way was up by the end. It has taken a LOT of therapy to sort me out.

OP, I think the question to ask is: Why would you want to?

You can't engage with someone who is disengaged/avoidant.

You can however run for the hills.

I just can’t believe I got something so important so wrong. There’s not even any point trying to talk or reason with him is there? It really is truly pointless because he’ll never understand or relent or get it

Unfortunately I think so. He would have to willingly enter into long term therapy which is unlikely as he can't see the need for proper connection with others and is getting his needs for distance met with his manipulations which have been finely honed forever. I am really really sorry for you. It's soul destroying being with some like this isn't it. You are alone in this relationship and have probably been for most of it, apart from the initial honeymoon period when he was drawing you in. Are you at the point where you want to do something about it Op?

I am at that point. I feel like I’ve been single for many years and now I know why. I don’t understand why I didn’t see this or do something about it before I’m at my lowest point ever. I feel like an addict. Being away from family and friends doesn’t help. I have no idea who I am anymore

It's really not your fault. It probably seemed normal to you. It certainly did to me. My ex husband reminded me of my mother. I can totally understand the disbelief when you realise. They really are wolves in sheep's clothing. No one believed me when I finally left. They didn't see the person I knew.

But there is help. Are you able to access some therapy? I started mine before we finally split. It gave me the courage to go through with it. Not sure how narcissistic your husband is but beware. Mine started a campaign when we split. Managed to sway people against me, including my school mum's friendship group and my own family (which was no loss, they were copies of him).

@whonoes - I moved away from family & friends to be with DP. As @Dacquoise says, these types are on their best behaviour for the first year or so, then the mask begins to slip & the true person unfolds. Mine started with the shitty behaviour as soon as I moved in.

It has felt for years that we are not a team, and of late it's like having an opponent not a partner.

Mine puts on his Mr Nice Guy front - no-one could believe he had an affair. He did a right number on me.

But the rot is underneath- the passive aggression, the selfishness, the lack of empathy, lack of support.

He has had 2 years of psychotherapy yet cannot take responsibility for his actions & blames me for them. Apparently these types are very resistant to therapy.

Either way, I'm done. Unfortunately 10 years after I should have left him. I can't regret my DC but I trapped myself having them with him.

I don't know how old you are, OP & if you have DC - but you must consider what a lifetime of this will do to you. Consider contraception if you are young enough to conceive.

I've had therapy (co-dependent traits) & it was a life-changer for me.

Please do think about having some therapy on your own to consider if you want to continue the relationship.

Sadly I have young kids and I’m the wrong side of 40 so we’ll and truly trapped and exhausted and broken

@Dacquoise, how long have you been away from your Ex? In my case it has taken 2 years to divorce and only in the last year have I started to heal. Do you wonder if his new wife is a "victim" or a similar character? People around Ex said he became nicer when we first got together as he was modifying his behaviour to show me the nice side.

You are so spot on about smear campaign post separation. I still get this and it is usually when I have had some perceived success which has triggered Ex. I try to grey rock but as we have DC I can't restrict all info flow and don't want the dc to feel they are banned from sharing info with their Dad. They are learning however when he is triggered.

For others in similar positions, I think processing is essential as until you learn that the disorder is ingrained and mostly resistant to therapy or change there is always attempts to try harder. I wasted years trying to find the right words to affect change in his behaviour. Equally those around me with "normal" marriages coached on strategies that just do not work with a personality disorder individual.

@whonoes - me too .

I'm sad for myself that I've put up with him, but after years of unhappiness I am now leaving.

It has taken me YEARS to get enough resources (support, money, employment) together to be able to leave. But I can't waste the rest of my life on him & don't want to model a dysfunctional relationship to DC.

I hope things get better & you can plan your escape.

Hi @Techway, it was a long process to get away from him. We separated ten years ago, and divorced around three years later when he moved the new woman in. I suspect she was in the background anyway as he had a completely separate life outside our home that I knew nothing about.

I do think she is his next victim as she is completely financially dependent on him and he gives her the exact same amount of 'pocket money' he gave me. It's bizarre. She is much younger than him and I can see how puffed up he must have been to 'bag' her but he hasn't changed at all. He put me through a two year court case recently and I saw the real him, gloves off. It was quite pathetic as none of his manipulations worked. It was water off a ducks back, completely powerless over me.

I was very surprised that he remarried given the settlement he had to give me but I know how insecure he is underneath. He needs to have someone at home to look after him and to validate him to the outside world. It's weird but the further away from him I have got, the clearer I see him.

It is definitely a long process to heal from these creeps. I am a completely different person now to the one trapped in the marriage and I couldn't be happier. Therapy has been my saviour which is why I always recommend it to others on MN.

They don’t resolve conflict because it’s an opportunity for closeness which they can’t handle. When you get too close they bolt.

Just to add, I was in my 40s, no job and looking after child on my own when I escaped. No family support, lost most of my friends and acquaintances because of him. Please, please, do not give up. I did it. You can too.

@Dacquoise, well done and congratulations for rebuilding your life.

Here's a good article which you might find helpful, OP:

jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-dismissive-avoidant/

Wow @Dacquoise you’re an inspiration. We are currently on day two of silent treatment. This means I get no help with the kids and he starts behaving like he’s single. Going out to buy and then cook his own food. No enquiry as to the kids and if they’ve eaten etc. He basically retreats, nose in the air, like his shit doesn’t stink. No conversation or attempt to resolve or even tackle why I was annoyed with him in the first place. Our lives are absolutely fine as long as I a) don’t rock the boat 2) give him unquestioning love and support without expecting my emotional needs to be met.

@MakeMineALargeProsecco, thank you so much for that link. My STBXH describes precisely and concisely, even to the idealised ex. If only I had been able to read this many years ago I would have chosen a very different path.

described

This is exactly the thread I needed to read. Thank you ❤️