Feel like I’m going mad - gaslighting

[WheresMyMindAt]

I’ve been on the receiving end of what I believe to be gaslighting for a while now. It's reaching a point where I can no longer fully trust my own recollection of things, even though I do actually know deep down what I have/haven’t experienced, have/have not said etc.

Last night dp and I were having drinks at home and we got to talking about the day we got engaged. The proposal was a no thrills, nothing extravagant, type event, literally just sat down one evening, popped the ring on and said that we were engaged, he didn’t actually speak the words ‘will you marry me’, but he didn’t need to, we knew that’s where we were headed. Anyway, dp wanted to have a chat with my family about proposing before we officially announced it to everyone, so off he went the following weekend, spoke to my parents, returned home later that day and he gave me the ring back, then we cracked on with the rest of the evening.

Now here’s where I’m being head fucked. Last night, DP claimed that when he returned home from my parents that day, that he apparently dropped down on one knee and asked me to marry him. He didn’t do that. I know he didn’t. What he did do was walk in to the room and place the ring on my finger. He didn’t drop down on one knee, I would remember that happening. That’s not something I would forget. But DP became angry with me last night when I told him that I don’t remember it happening that way. He said I was being ridiculous and that it categorically happened. I’m so confused. I KNOW that he didn’t drop down on one knee and I know he didn’t ask me to marry him while doing so. But seeing how adamant he was last night is making me think ‘DID that happen!?’ ‘Am I losing the plot and making up an entirely different version of events in my own head!?’ ‘Why can’t I remember what apparently happened???’.

This is gaslighting, right?

We’ve been through a few similar situations where I’ve been left doubting my sanity.

Funnily enough, we was watching a movie together a few weeks ago and one of the male characters was lying to his wife about something or other, and the wife was seen to be visibly confused and doubting her own memory. DP said ‘oh that’s gaslighting isn’t it? I really need to get better at that, because I always get caught out!’. It was said in a lighthearted, jokey way, but it hit a nerve with me then and now after last night I’m even more annoyed.

Am I going mad? Do things keep happening that I keep completely forgetting about?! Even huge things like apparently forgetting DP dropped to one knee in front of me? I don’t even know my own mind anymore. Except I do. I can't describe it. I’m so confused

Gaslighting is dramatically overused on this website.

Maybe he genuinely remembers it differently from you.

However, you don’t seem to trust him, or like him. Don’t marry him.

He's done this with a few things though.

There was a time a while ago when I needed some change for the bus and wasn't going near any cash points, so I looked in one of his jackets which he'd recently worn on a night out where we was paying for things in cash. So obviously after looking through that jacket, I knew what was in it and what wasn't. The following week, I was hanging some bits away in his wardrobe and as I hung something up, I noticed the pockets of the jacket I'd gone through the previous week, now had things in them. I asked DP why he put said things in his jacket pocket, as a few months prior he was looking for those things but couldn't find them and he said they was probably in the loft as he hadn't seen them in years. I told him that the items had obviously been moved to the jacket as they wasn't there a few days before, but he looked me straight in the eye and made me believe that I must've imagined them not being in there in the first place. I realise that all sounds very confusing, but bottom line, he'd put those things in his jacket after I'd looked through it, they absolutely were not there to begin with, I know they wasn't and would've remembered seeing them, but he completely made me believe I was losing my mind.

He has a history of lying other small and big things, so I do believe last night was a case of gaslighting tbh. I'm always left feeling so confused and doubting myself. It's horrible.

No, gaslighting is where a partner does something deliberately in order to make the other partner think that they are losing their sanity. It is a form of abuse.

In this case it sounds as if he simply remembers something different from you.

It may well be that he is losing his sanity, but it is more likely he has overwritten his memory with something that perhaps he intended to do and so is now convinced it happened. This happens fairly normally with lots of people.

Or do you truly think he is lying in order to make you feel confused? You say this has been happening 'for a while'?

Sorry cross-posted!

Call him out on it next time - say: 'Are you actually trying to make me doubt myself? Why do you feel the need to do that?"

Maybe he genuinely remembers it differently from you.

Remembering slightly different wordings or seating positions is plausible. Remembering a dramatic gesture of getting down on one knee vs walking across the room and putting a ring on someone's finger? No I don't find that plausible!

Did you post about the jacket thing before, op? Because that feels really familiar.

If this is a recurring pattern of behaviour then I doubt it exists in isolation. Why are you continuing a relationship with someone who treats you like this?

This has disaster written all over it

Break the “engagement” he couldn’t even be bothered to ASK you to marry him.

You’ll be an idiot to stay with him.

I mean yeah, there's forgetting you might have said something, and then there's claiming to have dropped to one knee when you didn't. Surely no one can truly think they did that, when they didn't!?

Yeah, that was me unfortunately.

I don’t really understand the jacket thing.

But again, the point is if you feel doubt etc why are you with this person

I don't profess to remember the full details of the jacket incident, but it was impressionable enough for me to immediately remember it in an "oh no" kind of way.

What are you hoping for from this thread? I don't mean that in a snippy way, I'm just wondering I suppose if you're here to convince yourself this is no big deal and to carry on, or if things have moved for you since last time and you want to have a different discussion.

Right so,

He was looking for some items, didn't know where they were, concluded they must be in the loft as he claimed to not have seen them for years.

We then go on a night out together, he wears a jacket, the items were not in that jacket when we went out as otherwise he'd have felt them in his pockets.

A few weeks later, I look for change in that jacket, items were not there at this point.

The following week, the items turn up in that jacket.

He said he had no idea how they come to be there. He hadn't seen them in years. I must've imagined them not being in there, but he couldn't explain how they wasn't there a few weeks prior when he wore the jacket when we went out.

He knows he moved the items to his jacket, he'd obviously found them and put them there. But instead of just telling me that, he'd rather have me believe that I just didn't see/feel them in there.

I'm guessing I'm wondering how many others go through these sort of scenarios? If it's something that can be looked passed/is to some extent, normal. Or if what I go through/am going through is a massive red flag..

But maybe he has memory issues.

Usually gaslighting is to some purpose, no?

Eg husband is having affair or husband drinks too much and wants to lie about it or any sort of thing. Like in the film where husband was trying to steal her money.

Why would he lie about these things randomly to play games? No one does that, surely? If you think he is then you don’t think he’s nice and you should leave him.

My mother often point blank “lies” about stuff she said or didn’t say. I don’t see her as gaslighting, I think she is just wrong or rewrites her own history.

It's a bit odd to discuss your engagement and now you think it's gas lighting. No it's not some things you let go some people have bad memories and he remembers it differently a lot of people are like that but it's not gas lighting.
To me gaslighting is saying something like oh Sarah was off with you today when in fact Sarah wasn't and just subtly saying things like that so you overthink that Sarah hates you not remembering how he proposed.

So he’s a liar for sure. Gaslighting, hard to say.

The issue of memory is an interesting one. We can and do misremember things, sometimes in quite a lot of detail.

My previous relationship was a bit like this. I wasn't aware of gaslighting at the time and not even sure if that's exactly what it was, however, DP did and said lots of things that made me doubt myself. In the end, I started to keep notes of what he said and where he said he was/who he was with. It's a ridiculous thing to have to do but it made me realise he definitely was lying as his stories often didn't stack up.

When I look back it was a horrible time. I felt very insecure and a lot of that was down to him.

Don't settle.

Going against the grain here but I think he is gaslighting.

Yes people get confused about who said what and when, but its normally mundane things eg forgetting something insignificant.

You might not see a point to it. But wasnt he original gaslighting in the film, the man changing the gas settings / dimming the lights to make her seem like she was going mad? There wasnt an actual point to the actions as an end in themselves.

Anyway I think he realised when you said it back to him that your 'proposal story' was going to sound a bit shit when you told people about it, so he wanted to rewrite the narrative.

I mean there are only three options here

1. You are having some sort of memory issues. I think if it only happens with him and not at work etc you can rule this out.

1. He is having some sort of memory issues. Which is a possibility, and if you think this you should encourage him to see a doctor. Does it happen elsewhere in his life or only with you?

1. He is gaslighting you, maybe he starts off mistaken and then when you point it out, instead of saying oh yea you're right, he digs down and wont admit he was wrong. Or maybe he just likes his alternative version of the truth as it suits him better / makes him look a nicer person eg proposal example. Or maybe he is slowly trying to send you mad. If he has no issue lying about other things, I would guess option 3.

But ultimately unleas he admits he lies or goes to the doctor to get his memory tested, there is nothing you can do, and you will have to either agree to disagree on whatever happened, or just smile and nod and pretend to agree with it, or leave

You might not see a point to it. But wasnt he original gaslighting in the film, the man changing the gas settings / dimming the lights to make her seem like she was going mad? There wasnt an actual point to the actions as an end in themselves

No. It incenses me how many people overuse this expression without having seen the film.

In the film he is using their attic as he is looking for her money. Going in the attic and switching the lights on dims the lights downstairs. That’s why he pretends he cannot notice the lights going down - to hide what he is doing.

I don't think I would call this gas lighting and actually memory is so fallible that it is very possible that he has come to believe what he's saying. More importantly though, is why you are marrying a man who you think is gaslighting you. I would pay more attention to that than the question of what is 'really' going on. It sounds like you don't trust him and don't always feel safe with him. Is that right?

When he's acted this way in the past, it has been to cover his tracks for other things. I've caught him out lying a few times, but then he'll spin the situation so much that I end up completely doubting myself, even though I know he's lying. That's why I think he has gaslighting tendencies. I mean, if that isn't what's going on here, then I don't know what else to call it, because I'm always in a state of confusion and feeling like I'm losing the plot.

I'm worried about you. What is it that attracts you to this man? You don't feel safe with him. I think you can expect to do so in your relationships. What are your thoughts about going ahead with the wedding? What is it that makes you want to marry him despite all of this?

You keep giving more reasons why you don’t like him or want to be with him!

LEAVE!!!!

From your last post I see he has a history of lying to you and coming up with a story to cover himself. Some would say fibbing or little white lies or stretching the truth. The not going on one knee is a stretching the truth. He wants to appear more romantic, so tweaked his version of what happened. But the items in jacket, lets say it was a lighter and a pipe, you know they were not there. Then they were.

You mention that he recognizes the term 'gaslighting'. That he 'needs to get better at it.' All you need to know is right there in that 'joke'

He is getting better at making you doubt yourself, time to cut him off. You can never trust a liar. I divorced my ex because of the lies. He lied about money, he hadn't spent it, it must have been me. It wasn't.
Give yourself the best present this Christmas and let him go.

My husband does this. He just lies when he thinks he's been 'caught out'. It doesn't matter if it's not that important but he will lie nonetheless. It's a terrible trait and makes you doubt them even when telling the truth.

It isn't normal to not be able to trust the man you are going to marry, no. Whether it's because he's gaslighting you, or just an persistent liar, don't settle for someone you can't trust.

My ex had a tendency to change his recollection of things to suit himself. If I pointed out that he was incorrect, he would get angry and shout and tell me that I was wrong.

The things that he would change was often stuff that other people such as my friends and parents remembered happening exactly as I described them, not as my ex described them. He would change things that he did or said to make himself look better and make me look like a liar.

After calling him out on it, once he got past his anger (which often involved shouting, swearing and being generally vile) he would still be adamant that he was telling the truth and I was the liar.

I'm not sure if my ex was a true gaslighter or not, but he certainly completely rewrote half of our life together in his head. He managed to wipe out the memories of hitting me, dragging me across the floor by my hair, raping me. I know it happened. He claimed it didn't happen and I was making it up.

If they do this type of behaviour, it never stops. It tends to escalate the longer you are with them. I would be running for the hills. I know the effect this sort of behaviour had on me and it's really not fun to live with.