Separating finances within an established marriage

[BranchingOut]

My DH has deep-seated issues with money and finances. He cannot seem to reconcile himself to the fact that I earn significantly less than him. He is a high earner (many times my salary) whereas I earn a bit more than average salary (30k+) but work part-time due to our child. Many times over the years he has brought up my lack of financial contribution in the most hurtful ways. Whatever I say, I cannot make him see things differently and there is a fundamental logical disconnect in the way he perceives this matter. We have a beautiful home, holidays and everything a person could want, but deep down he will never be satisfied with his situation in life. He won't do counselling or anything of the kind. We have been married nearly 20 years and in a relationship for quite a few more.

So there it is. After our most recent row I have had enough. I don't want to separate but I can't go on the way we are. I am wondering if anyone has ever gone down the route of separating assets but remaining in a marital relationship? For example, changing the ownership of a property from joint-tenants to tenants in common? Negotiating a post-nuptial agreement? Changing wills? I would be prepared to negotiate a split of assets just to stop this conversation once and for all. We own more than one property, have some other assets and possible inheritances in the offing, so that makes this kind of agreement more feasible.

I am well aware that the other option is separation full stop, but for various reasons I would prefer to avoid that option and would be very interested to find out if anyone has gone down the above route.

Thanks, but comments along the lines of 'Doesn't he value what you do at home?' are all fruitless as no, he doesn't.

Just divorce him and the Law will show him what you're worth

In doing what you have suggested you will be screwing yourself over.

A halfway split will keep you all in limbo and none of you will be able to move on. A full divorce with no strings attached would mean you would gain financial control over your life.

What are you getting out of this relationship now?.

What are your various reasons for not making a complete break rather than proposing some frankly unworkable sort of separating assets arrangement whilst remaining married?. Do you think he would actually agree to that because it is highly unlikely he would do so. He would most likely start hiding financial assets more if he is not already, do you have full access to the financials here?. Is it because of your child?. That young person won't say "thanks mum" to you for doing that to them if that is the case. That choice could well lead your child to accuse you of putting him before him or her.

What do you want to teach your child about relationships and what are they learning here from the two of you?. Would you want this for them?. No you would not would you. Its not good enough for you either. Do not sell yourself short here.

My husband is EXACTLY like this, I am honestly considering divorce now. I cannot bear the shit he spouts at me and in front of DD. The financial abuse is getting worse and worse. I live abroad so can't work properly, it is his country.

I spend NOTHING on myself. It's pathetic. He has his own accounts that he protects with his life. I have nothing. No good will come of it.

I am beginning to loathe him. (Also 20 years)

Yes, DD wants me to, PP is correct.

I am kind of in a similar position or I was. My husband earns far more than I do and up until recently (we were not married although together for almost 20 years) viewed it all as "his" despite the fact I worked in his company and made most of his money for him
I think in a lot of ways he still feels that way and our finances are totally separate and all the assets are in his name
it doesn't matter now we are married, had to drag him down the aisle but I often wonder how I let myself get into that position
Do NOT do what you are proposing, you are screwing yourself over.
I can understand why you don't want to leave, I don't either... yet but I think like mine, your marriage doesn't have a future.
How are you going to manage when you are no longer earning and you have totally different lifestyles. You work until you drop while he retires 10 years earlier with his big fat pension.
if he won't listen or go to counselling maybe just refuse to engage with him on the subject

I think a more sensible thing might be to tell him that you're going back to work FT and he'll need to pull his weight with family life.

He needs to make himself available for half of all the school pick ups and drop offs, and half of all the incidences when the kids are off school sick etc. Plus he needs to sort out childcare for half the holidays (and do drop offs and pick ups).

Plus he needs to make sure he's there to supervise homework/do reading etc half the time. And half of the clubs and play dates. Plus fully half of all the housework and the household admin etc.

He probably won't be so keen on that. I'm sure he thinks his career is much too important to do any of that family stuff. So he can either accept that he provides the bulk of the finances while you do all that stuff, or he can step up and contribute equally as a parent.

If you do try to separate assets it should be on the basis of what a divorce settlement would actually look like. That's not going to be 50-50 since you've sacrificed earning potential to allow him to further his career. Plus there should be a maintenance payment in there because you're providing all the childcare etc.

@WooMaWang has it.

Thanks for the comments.

I worked out long ago that he wouldn't be happy even if I did return FT, as I still wouldn't earn enough for him. So I want to have that time with my child.

So he can either accept that he provides the bulk of the finances while you do all that stuff, or he can step up and contribute equally as a parent. Yeah, nice idea but that doesn't compute in his mind!

So has anyone actually done something like this or knows someone who has?

I think you need to force him to accept the reality of it. He needs to experience the demands of having to be on time for school drop off pick up (and the later starts and earlier finishes at work). Or the inability to commit to a business trip. Or the need to take leave at no notice when your child wakes up vomiting in the middle of the night (plus, I'm guessing he's not the ones that gets up to clean up/comfort the child).

Only once he properly appreciates what would be required of him, can you start to talk about unequal financial contributions with two parents working FT. It's not about appreciating what you do, but recognising all the stuff he just doesn't have to do. Even then he still needs to consider that reducing your work hours, plus your inability to stay late or travel or whatever, plus periods of maternity leave have impacted on your career and your earning potential now as well as in the future (and into retirement).

Maybe he needs to see what a divorce settlement would actually look like (plus how much CM he'd be liable for - in addition to actually having to be there for the kids in whatever contact he's able to commit to).

It's not that he's incapable of understanding; he's refusing to because he sounds like a total arsehole.

I strongly suspect that if you have a long marriage and a child, a 50:50 split in the way you describe now would prejudice your position enormously if you were to divorce. It would probably be treated as an agreement in anticipation of divorce and that would be that. Before you even embarked on exploring this, I'd speak to a solicitor about how an agreement of this sort would affect a divorce financial position.

WooMaWang Thank you. I do totally understand what you are saying and you put it very well. That might work with the average man. But unfortunately his issues with money are deeply tied up with situations from his childhood and go far beyond that kind of logical reasoning. I have honestly tried explaining all that. Our child is a bit older now, DH has lived through and seen me deal with the peak years of childcare emergencies, illness, medical issues, chicken pox and also balance this with a professional part-time job and commute. But he still resents what he perceives as my lack of financial contribution during those years.

DorothyP yes, you are right about getting legal advice. To be honest, I would want to negotiate an agreement that I would be happy with anyway if we were to separate.

Why did he marry you if this was such a big issue, why not some other high flyer?
Really while my DH thinks everything is "his" he doesn't resent the fact that I don't earn as much as him, never once brought that up
I think you will find v v few people who have done what you are proposing to do - there is no logic to it unless you are actually splitting up. Maybe you need to threaten that and walk away if he doesn't change as I don't see how your situation is tenable in the long run unless he changes his attitude

TBH, If you sort this he’ll just find something else to be an arsehole about.

If you're really serious about doing what you're doing. Divorce now but continue living together and each pay your own way.

Do not let yourself be screwed over though in the divorce.

Propose this to him and see what he says.

You should just walk though IMO and take what's rightfully yours. Why would martyr yourself for somebody who doesn't value you at all?

You cannot negotiate with someone who will not compromise.
It's his way or the highway.
Why put yourself through so much stress to be totally controlled by an abusive man?

the problem isn't the money - it is how he feels about the money. If you did this you will just refocus his resentment to something else. So he now owns all the property and back accounts and can't complain about that. He will start complaining instead about how you are going on holidays you don't contribute to or eating food you couldn't afford on your own etc.

He has a deepseated issue and isn't normal about money and his wife. Why would you doing this magically solve this? Maybe therapy could help him but this approach won't. You are basically like a woman whose husband wants to control who she sees. Agreeing not to see anyone he doesn't want her to isn't really a good solution to that problem is it?

I’m sorry I can’t help with how this split would look in practice. However, I do wonder what the point of it is? He’ll resent you regardless and it won’t improve your relationship in any way, will it?

I appreciate what you are saying about him having issues leading to him being like this. But effectively financially divorcing yourselves isn't going to resolve his issue. It will remain there. I can't imagine how your life would work going forward? Because he earns more money he goes on more holidays? Or flies first class while you fly standard to reflect your separate incomes? Stays in a better hotel because he can afford it? Or do you share the future finances at your level of affordability and he saves all his money in the bank like scrooge never to be used unless he spends it on himself? The issue will remain. Only it may then become your issue of resentment whilst he happily watches his savings go up and up, never to be spent with the person he has chosen as his partner through life.

I do appreciate this is driven by a psychological problem. But accommodating it is not going to resolve it. It is not going to help him appreciate what you have sacrificed and the part you play that allows him to earn that money whilst being a father and having a nice home etc.

If a man was physically abusive you wouldnt accommodate him by saying you would allow him to hit you on a Monday so he can get it out of his system and you can have six days abuse free. I don't mean that to be crass or disrespectful, I don't mean it to be, but this sounds basically like financial abuse. Just because you can manage with what you earn doesn't mean you aren't entitled to have some of what he earns to spend towards your life as a family, a family that you support.

He needs help.

I'm not for one minute saying someone physically abusive would be able to "get it out of their system" or that that would be a viable option, that is my point - that it isn't at all.

I am in somewhat of the reverse situation, although I only make twice what my STBXH makes, not "many times more". He thinks I'm divorcing him over the fact that I've worked full time and he's worked part time, and that I resent having to be the higher earner. In my case, if everything else in the marriage was fine, the fact that I make more and needed to work full time would not have been a deal-breaker. He thinks all I care about is the money, that I look down on him for having a lesser-paying job. But, no, that was not the deal-breaker. What was the deal-breaker was that he was gambling away our joint money, and yes, since mine was twice what his was, I felt he was wasting our money, obviously, but in particular, making the fact that I worked full time all for naught, as he was wasting the extra money, which I did feel was due to my hard work. I did resent having to work full time as opposed to what we had been doing, which was both of us part time and each watched the children while the other worked. So, when I needed to go full time due to his mental health situation (quit one job suddenly, let go of next job), it was no longer fair in my eyes, as things at home still fell mostly to me. He did the outdoor work that the neighbors could see (he's very concerned with appearances), I did the indoor stuff that he would complain about if I hadn't done it all ("this house looks like a pigsty" being said to me More than once, which I received as a dig on me....working full time and he part time; if he could see it was a pig-sty why couldn't he pitch in instead of napping?). Yes, so, disrespect, financial waste, and then him accusing me of only caring about the money. Because at some point, I wondered if his mental health would ever be at a point when he could either pick up the slack at home or get full time work so I could cut mine a bit. The man took so many naps and was depressed and yet cold turkey stopped seeing his mental health providers And taking his medications. Hospitalized twice. Tried over and over again to encourage him to seek help. I was also greatly concerned that our retirement money would be gambled away, and that he, when we were both retired, would want to spend all his leisure time gambling, and we would lead separate lives anyway, except we might be destitute. I don't think this is an unreasonable fear, given his track record.

So, awaiting the attorneys to hammer out an acceptable settlement agreement. He thinks I owe him spousal maintenance, but guess what? After all the years of him working part time only, he suddenly, when confronted with the fact that the law would impute full time hours to him whether he worked them or not, managed to increase his hours to full time.

Like magic.

And restarted his mental health therapy.

Like magic.

But I hear from the kids that when they're with him, he still smokes in front of them (another cause of my leaving him; refusal and contempt of my requests that he not smoke in the house, in front of the children, in the car with us), and that he disappears on them, they aren't sure where he went. I suspect he still goes gambling. But not my problem anymore. The kids are older now so him leaving them outside of work hours is not a crime.

So, assuming you, OP, are not a gambler or wasting money otherwise, addicted to shopping, etc, it seems perplexing that he would be so financially controlling only. Is everything else in your marriage AOK or is he also controlling in other ways?

Are you happy? Is he happy?

Mine always claimed to be happy with me, until I told him he had broken the last straw, and we were done. Then suddenly all his gripes about me came out. Yet over and over "Am I really that bad?"

Just wish I had left years before, but I always had hope he would become an adult and take responsibility for his own well-being. Once I saw it would never happen, I had the strength to end it.

Good luck with your situation. But do not give up what you are legally entitled to. I consider myself very lucky to have landed in a career that can fully support me and our kids. I will happily pay the child support I will be charged with, but would be very unhappy if I end up having to also pay towards a gambling spouse's maintenance.

Do not do this. You are hoping to “cure him”, and you can’t. 💐

He is the one with the issue. Not you. I wonder if he uses the money stick to beat you with because he knows it is effective. I would shout Fuck Off you Miserly Cunt in his face every time he started on it.

@pallisers at 1534 yesterday nailed it

• the problem isn't the money - it is how he feels about the money. If you did this you will just refocus his resentment to something else. So he now owns all the property and back accounts and can't complain about that. He will start complaining instead about how you are going on holidays you don't contribute to or eating food you couldn't afford on your own etc.

He has a deepseated issue and isn't normal about money and his wife. Why would you doing this magically solve this? Maybe therapy could help him but this approach won't. You are basically like a woman whose husband wants to control who she sees. Agreeing not to see anyone he doesn't want her to isn't really a good solution to that problem is it?*

This is not a partnership and it's not respecting you