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Original poster

Are red flags fool proof?

70 replies

butterflyFed · 08/12/2019 14:01

I have been OLD intermittently for 2 years and met 10-15 people in person. Mostly 1-date nightmares. Now, I I have met a man who seems not only normal but great. We have chatted for 3 weeks and met once. I can't believe he is single!

I guess I am been extra cautious and there was one thing that made me start thinking.

  • He is from CountryX but has lived here for 3 years. His phone number is still from that country.

This made me think he may have two phones. Sometimes it takes hours to deliver WhatsApp messages, but this usually happens during work hours, weekends are ok, nights are ok.

  • He left mid date because he received a message saying his son couldn't sleep if he was not there.

I found his social media and he divorced about 4 years ago, ex still lives in CountryX, he lives here with son, all checks out. A woman about a year ago flirting in his wall but he was not entertaining. His friends encouraged him to take her out and he answered very politely they were not a good match.

The thing that started all this was a combination of him saying one day he will take me to visit lovely CountryX but failing to arrange a second date.

He said he would like a second date during our first, the next day how he had enjoyed and would like to meet again. A couple of days ago that he was going to dream of our second date...

We have been messaging everyday (15-20 messages through the day), he keeps repeating he is intimated by my intelligence, saying I am beautiful, joking about how many candidates I must have and how shocked he is I still talk to him. I have told him I think he is handsome and intelligent as well, and said I would like to meet again. When he said he would dream about our date, I replied "let's make it happen".

We talked yesterday but it was the first day he didn't say goodnight and today he read my message trying to initiate a conversation about a date by referring to the dream and has not replied.

I think he will write to me later (if he doesn't I will be shocked but will get the message).

I thought he liked me, but I am starting to doubt it and thinking he is committed or not interested. Then I wake myself up, saying he would not say all this if he didn't want a second date, and everything I have found about him matches what he told me.

Am I been silly? Should I ask for a date directly when he replies?

OP posts:
Original poster
butterflyFed · 08/12/2019 22:11

He replied that he has been looking forward to Monday (when I am free) but it did not depend only on him. He was very eager but it seems that he can't believe I am interested. Low self esteem after been cheated?

Have you read the dreamer and the fantasy relationship?
I will google it.

Constant messaging paints a picture in your head and its a fantasy image.
We don't message constantly. 2-3 messages during the day and a short chat on a topic after work (~10-15 whatsapp)

You've had one date in 3 weeks, and he left part way through that? You are too easily pleased and put up with too little effort
We talked for 2 weeks, then met 6 days ago and have arranged another date for tomorrow. We are both single parents, so this sounds normal to me. About leaving after 2h, I was a bit disappointed as I was having a good time, but his son is definitely his priority #1 and I am ok with that. Actually I think that's how his priorities should be and one of the reasons I have a good feeling about him.

you seem to assume everything he says must be true
My opinions are based on things he does and topics we have talked about. For instance, he has a good career but keeps studying. He volunteers with charities (I found online, he didn't say). Devoted to his son (he doesn't say this, it is again my opinion based on what he tells me about his son). The way someone talks and thinks says a lot about character and personality and my first impression is that he has good values.

lovebombing
I married and divorced a narcissist. I am familiar with lovebombing, future faking, idealize/discard cycle. This man is not lovebombing me. He has complimented me, that's true, but so have I, and it is nice. But not over the top.

My nex would drop our kids at his friends house to go on dates. At least I know this man puts his son' s wellbeing ahead of a date (even if that was me). And it would be wrong of me to critize that when I think it is what my kids deserved.

OP posts:
pictish · 08/12/2019 22:17

“ - He left mid date because he received a message saying his son couldn't sleep if he was not there.”

Doesn’t ring true to me.

“He keeps repeating he is intimated by my intelligence, saying I am beautiful, joking about how many candidates I must have and how shocked he is I still talk to him. I have told him I think he is handsome and intelligent as well, and said I would like to meet again. When he said he would dream about our date, I replied "let's make it happen".”

Really though...this is all very flattering isn’t it?

Hmm.

Kitty2020 · 08/12/2019 23:28

He replied that he has been looking forward to Monday (when I am free)

As in tomorrow? Have you a date scheduled then?

Jane1978xx · 08/12/2019 23:37

Sounds like a massive effort for nothing

FridayNightPJs · 08/12/2019 23:48

he said himself he must be ugly since he only got to chat to 3 people in 3 years

When I was online dating, if someone asked if I was talking to anyone else, I always said no. It was never true unless I volunteered the information.

All you have so far is what he has told you.

I could tell you I was a tall, willowy blonde with green eyes. Except that's not true because I'm a petite, curvy redhead. Except that you don't know if that's true either.

Honestly, we do so much work with children on online safety and the fact you can't automatically believe people are who and what we say they are, but adults are just as gullible.

You have the impression he has a "golden heart" and is "one of the good ones" precisely because that is the impression he wants you to have.

Just because he has told you this stuff doesn't mean any of it is true!

75Renarde · 08/12/2019 23:49

Yup, he is love bombing you. (Bigging you up, dreaming about you). Dont forget not all love bombs are created equal...

Hes now blowing hot and cold. You are now trying to analyse his words, meanings etc. That's not healthy.

The other worrying thing is that you've got out of a relationship with a narc that means it's likely you will attract more.

Block and NC immediately.

75Renarde · 08/12/2019 23:51

@FridayNightPJs

You have the impression he has a "golden heart" and is "one of the good ones" precisely because that is the impression he wants you to have.

This is so so true and I wish people would realise it!

This is the major pitfall with OLD. People can be anything that's why its narc heaven! So dangerous!

TimeForNewStart · 09/12/2019 00:19

he said himself he must be ugly since he only got to chat to 3 people in 3 years

Bullshit

CatAndHisKit · 09/12/2019 00:21

OP, I can't believe how negative many posters are after your last update!

They aer meeting up tomorrow or Tues. Everything checks out.

He's not 'tedious' if OP doesn't find him tedious!

Give him a chance, OP.

TimeForNewStart · 09/12/2019 01:20

But if the guy is bigging her up beyond what is reasonable, saying he is ‘intimidated by her intelligence’, and calling himself ugly, there would be something wrong with the OP if she didn’t find him tedious!!!

AlwaysCheddar · 09/12/2019 05:49

He will be asking for money soon.....

Notcoolmum · 09/12/2019 06:07

Agree with previous posters who have urged to judge on his actions and not his words.
He left part way through a date.
He lives alone with his son who is young enough to need his dad in order to sleep.
He has brought his son to live in a different country from his mum?

Aside from the love bombing I'd be very cautious over his situation. Why do him and a young son live in a different country from the mother?

Eslteacher06 · 09/12/2019 07:21

You've asked our advice and we've told you not to bother. Yet you seem to not accept it. You've put in a lot of effort for not much. But it's your life! I'm glad I'm not putting up with that rubbish! Good luck!

Sushiroller · 09/12/2019 08:23

Another one who thinks he sounds like a time waster.

All the Ooooh I'm so Intimidated stuff IS BS. Even if he is thinking it- who says that kind of thing out loud???

MarianaMoatedGrange · 09/12/2019 08:33

Golden heart? Oh come on!!! you're idealising this man based purely on what he tells you.

A date today? Try to view him more objectively on this date.

fastliving · 09/12/2019 09:36

He sounds like the best of an uninteresting bunch....that doesn't mean he's a catch.
Sounds like he's not that into you if he hasn't suggested meeting up again?

Todayisontheup · 09/12/2019 10:15

Hi @butterflyFed,

Be careful he could be a scammer!

I met a guy earlier on this year with a foreign mobile. Subsequently found he had a UK one. I think your guy is either married or in a relationship and is lining you up to exploit financially.

Piecing it together, I was speaking with guy A and met guy A, but then noticed changes in message language slightly. I think he is part of a gang. Soon after I got the I can't pay my rent message!

Whoever it was got aggressive when I didn't respond to their plight.

Be very careful.

Original poster
butterflyFed · 09/12/2019 13:57

@Todayisontheupoday I am very sorry you had that experience.

I am a single mom, he knows I don't live in abundance, so he could find better targets if he wanted money.

Why do him and a young son live in a different country from the mother?
They all used to live here. They moved back to CountryX for a family matter with plans to return here in a year. Just before returning he finds out about affair, XW is pregnant by OM, they divorce. I don't want to give much details, but after 1 year of joint custody, school intervened and recommended sole custody for father. XW consented to the move of the child a year after, and she gets to see the child during holidays.

@5175Renarde thank you, your comments are food for thought.
The other worrying thing is that you've got out of a relationship with a narc that means it's likely you will attract more
I agree with this, as we tend to repeat patterns. But I have and continue to educate myself reading about relationships and psychology in the last 4 years.

You've asked our advice and we've told you not to bother. Yet you seem to not accept it.
@Eslteacher06 I read all advice and take it into consideration, but I make my own choices. Not only there are differy opinions, but I have more information to assess if the advice applies or not. For instance, I know he is not married/living with a woman.

OP posts:
Wondersense · 09/12/2019 14:10

Why would your intelligence intimidate him? Does he usually date dumbos? A balanced self-esteem us important. Without it you might constantly have to boost it or he might get easily jealous in the future of other men around you.

Original poster
butterflyFed · 09/12/2019 14:48

@Wondersense You would be surprised what OLD brings around here (have you seen Americans and geography? That sort of thing).

I don't know why he used that word, he also said admiration. As I said, he is an engineer but he is knowledge thirsty and he is working hard to learn a different field, the field I happen to work in. So I guess that the conversation can be mentally stimulating. I am also book smart and have a couple of uncommon skills (think of national champion of a sport and a mental discipline).

Well, date is arranged and I don't know where we are going Grin he is picking me up from work and this time I will ask what is his curfew lol when I said he left mid date I was probably projecting my feelings and a wrong impression. We had not set a finish time, so we had coffee and chatted for 2 hours and we're going to start playing Scrabble when I went to the bathroom and he received the message. It is not like he stood me up or left after 15 min.

I will try to get to know him a bit better today and see how it goes.

By the way, one of the most off-putting things about the last guy I dated off OLD was that he could drive 1h to see me but he didn't to see his kids. So I stand by what I said, that although disappointed to have to end the date after "only" 2h, I actually like that he puts his son first.

OP posts:
pictish · 09/12/2019 17:06

“I have the impression that he has a golden heart and he is one of the good ones.”

Why? You have chatted for three weeks and met once. A golden heart...what is that, if not a fantasy? You are applying a fantasy to a stranger.

You sound willingly gullible I’m afraid to say...not wishing to be rude. I wish there was something I could say to help.

pictish · 09/12/2019 17:07

Just apply some caution will you? For your own sake.

FineWordsForAPorcupine · 09/12/2019 18:28

Just before returning he finds out about affair, XW is pregnant by OM, they divorce. I don't want to give much details, but after 1 year of joint custody, school intervened and recommended sole custody for father. XW consented to the move of the child a year after, and she gets to see the child during holidays

When I was OLDing, I filed everything anyone told me about themselves into a box marked "not yet proven either way". So I didn't assume everything was a lie, but I certainly didn't assume it was the truth either.

Original poster
butterflyFed · 09/12/2019 19:20

I didn't assume everything was a lie, but I certainly didn't assume it was the truth either.

@FineWordsForAPorcupine this is the most sensible advice, specially for OLD where there is no context or background.

You sound willingly gullible I’m afraid to say
@Pictish not willingly but I may (or not) have a tendency to trust before it is earned. I think learning this is part of maturing and I am on it. Sadly I could not learn the basics about emotions and adult relationships from my parents and I am still trying to figure out these things by myself as an adult.

OP posts:
FineWordsForAPorcupine · 09/12/2019 20:11

I am still trying to figure out these things by myself as an adult

I think you're doing a good job - you are asking for opinions and clearly listening to yourself when you feel suspicious

One thing that is a bit of a red flag to me is this bit :

Just before returning he finds out about affair, XW is pregnant by OM, they divorce. I don't want to give much details, but after 1 year of joint custody, school intervened and recommended sole custody for father. XW consented to the move of the child a year after, and she gets to see the child during holidays

This could be 100% true, or it could be his perception, or an exaggeration, or an outright lie. There's no way of telling until you have known him for longer and a) got outside verification and b) had opportunity to gauge his trustworthiness in other aspects.

But what it is for 100% definite is a lot of information to tell a stranger. You hadn't even met, and he was telling you about his faithless ex wife?

My guess? It sounds...unlikely. Its all calculated to make him look like a good guy (she cheated! She had a baby with another man! He is left holding the baby, with a mean woman who lost custody!) Again, I'm not saying it definitely isn't true, but it is very one sided.

Ditto him having to leave the date because his son "couldn't sleep without him". That very well may be true. But it would also be a brilliant lie to tell if he (for example) had to get back home to his wife /girlfriend. It actually made you think even more highly of him - "he puts his kid first".

If you find yourself wondering "but why would he lie about something ?" then your answer is found in how it made you feel when you heard it.