Think DH is enmeshed with mother

[mountainwoman1]

I have name changed for this. This is very long so apologies but I don't know how to shorten.

I am married 13 years with DH 15 years with two DC. My marriage is in serious difficulty to the point I have told DH I can't continue as we are DH has agreed to go to Counselling and wants to save the marriage. I believe his relationship with his mother is dysfunctional and is having an affect on our marriage whilst he thinks they are close and that I am just jealous of their relationship. If I try to discuss his mother, he gets very defensive. When I first suggested joint counselling he agreed, as long as we don't bring his mother into it as it has nothing to do with her. I do not believe I am a priority nor indeed is our child. His mother and pleasing his mother appears to be his primary focus. I don't see how you can maintain a marriage when your primary focus is not your wife and child.

We do not live in the same Country as his mother so if she visits she is with us for a week or two. My DH also skypes/viber calls her so you can see/hear her during these calls. So although she is not in the Country she is essentially there. So her influence, despite distance, is very much felt. Relations have been poor for a longtime and he has visited her with our DC but now I feel that our DC should not be subjected to her behaviour and am prepared to walk away from the relationship if this is not dealt with. Has anyone ever had a husband who was enmeshed with their mother? Did it improve with Counselling.?

Some examples of reasons I think he is enmeshed are:

1. He will never say no to her. She can visit whenever she pleases and I have been told this. He does not discuss with me dates that suit the family. It is simply whatever date suits her.
2. We cannot go on holidays anywhere near his home country because she will come too. My DH refuses to say that she is not invited. If she decides to come he claims she will just turn up and he can't say no to this as she is his mother. We have gone on some holidays far away but he always skypes/vibe messages her on these holidays and she always criticises the place putting a damper on my DH mood.
3. She refuses to eat out so when she visits us, she insists that I make food for her and we cannot do long day trips because we have to get back for the food I have cooked. Because I have to cook, I also can't go on the trips. My DH never insists that she eat out, insists that i should just cook because it is only for a while etc. he doesn't understand that it is the control/insistence that is the problem, not the actual cooking.
4. He wanted to back out of a house purchase because she told him to.We had been searching for the perfect house for a year. When we finally found it and both loved it, he sent her a picture. She said no, pick something else. We fought for weeks over it and eventually we agreed to go ahead but he wanted to not proceed solely because she said "no, pick something else" although he claimed he himself had changed his mind. Which I don't believe.
5. Any communication with his father and brother is only through her. He never telephones or speaks with his father/brother unless she is there/says they should speak.
6. His brother lives with her (he is fifty), doesn't work, doesn't have even one friend, doesn't cook or do anything for himself. He has only worked for one year of his life which was in the company that she works for. That is it. My DH can see this is not right but thinks his relationship with her is different.
7. Because his brother and father fight all the time, my MIL decided he should come live with us for a while, to give her a well deserved break from parenting, and we can get him a job. She booked flights for him and then, when they were booked, informed my DH that his brother was coming. I told DH he and his brother could live together but his brother was not living with us. In the end his mother did cancel the tickets but my DH never said anything other than we don't have room at the moment. He didn't say that she had no right to be booking flights and deciding her other son would live with us without discussion.
8. She is extremely rude and disrespectful towards me and my DH does nothing about it except say that's just the way she is. He constantly puts pressure on me to just get on with it because she is old and frail (she is 62 and still working) and that I hardly ever see her anymore. The disrepect/comments/passive agressiveness is also through the skype/viber calls though. I never speak to her on these calls though.
9. If DH ever disagrees with her she will either get extremely angry and shouts or she will sulk.

10.She is constantly talking about her health and how she doesn't have long to live and what will he do when she is gone etc. If he doesn't agree with her, she will claim a heart condition etc. 11. He talks at great length about what she did for him as a child. How she looked after him when he was sick or how she made him meals etc. All seems standard stuff to me but she talks about it and how great she was as a mother at every opportunity. 12. She starts massive arguments whenever she visits over the most minute stuff. The first time, it was because my DH asked me to look something up on google for him and his mother. This was after a very long day of work/childcare and I said "can you not look that up yourself? his mother became hysterical and threw herself on the bed crying that she couldn't believe I was so rude and spoke like that. That I had no respect for my DH and didn't deserve him. The second time it was because they came back after at day trip quite late with my DC who was in school the next day. They hadn't eaten out (she refuses to) so I made a quick snack for my DC whilst my DH popped out for something. I then brought my DC to bed and when DH came back I could hear her screaming and crying. When I went back into the room (after my DC was asleep) they were both eating a meal. I asked my DH if his mother was upset and he said "wouldn't you be". I then (regrettably) apologied for not making my MIL the same snack as DC (even though I intended to when DC was asleep). She started crying uncontrollably at the level of disrespect I had shown and my DH was very annoyed with me. After she left, I told DH that I didn't want her visiting again but she has since. 13. She is constantly making sly digs about me and my DH never defends me, just ignores her.

The main reason why this is affecting us is because my DH is starting to act manipulative himself and because he has normalised her behaviour he is repeating it. I feel like their is a third person in our marriage whilst he thinks he is just close to her. I have told DH that I don;t want to continue with the marriage and he has asked for time for him to go to Counselling etc. I enabled the behaviour for so long too so feel at fault. I do love my DH and outside of dealing with his DM and the fact that he now reminds me, at times, of her, we do get on great.

Sorry again for the extreme length. Has anyone been through this and got through it or did you divorce for this reason? TBH now that I have decided that I am prepared to walk away I feel relief that I will never have to see her again but I do love my DH so great sadness at the same time. I actually feel physically ill when I hear her voice.

Can you show him your post ? It might hello him to see everything in writing

Oh my word, I felt angry just reading what you wrote. You may be right in thinking that enmeshment is at play here, but that way of relating (co-dependency) is 'normal' for many people and is incredibly hard to see in ourselves (in my experience, unless you are able to be brutally honest). Ugh, I don't know what to say, I don't know if counselling will help, perhaps it will, but currently it appears that you are further down the pecking order on his agenda than his mum. And if that is how it has always been for him then a change will have to be massive but perhaps the jolt of the reality of the impact it is having on his marriage will do that for him.
Good luck to you, you deserve to be top woman in your own marriage, we all do.

I have no words of advice, not having gone through the same thing, but you have all my sympathy, this situation and your mother in law sound utterly horrendous.

How you've put up with it for so long, I don't know. I'd have built a patio by now, with a nice addition of mother in law added to its foundations.

Have you got any relatives? I would be staying with them whenever mil landed. And taking dc - they do not need to be witness to such absolute bonkersness (new word!).
Also I could not be sexually attracted to a man still attached to the umbilical cord...

Well for a start the next time she comes to stay I'd be going somewhere else and let him get on with it

Sounds bloody horrendous

Run away OP.
You've put up with this shite for far too long already.
He won't cut the apron strings and won't ever change.
So the only other option, for your own sanity and mental health, is to run walk away!
It's truly sad when this men can't see the damage their own mothers are doing to their lives. But they choose to bury their heads.
Would he prepared to do some reading?
If so, in the search bar on Amazon, type 'Toxic mothers' and 'narcissistic mothers' and get him reading quickly.

Also get him to google FOG - Fear Obligation Guilt!

His brother is 50 but the mother is 62...?

Pack his things and send him on a 1 way flight to his mum! Seriously OP! When he is with her 24/7 maybe he will see what he stands to lose or lost if you go your separate ways.

My sympathies OP .. virtual hug

@LilouBlue sorry, typo. Brother is in 40s not 50s

As another pp has said, the relationship your H and your MIL have is so established that it would take a gigantic change for him to pull himself away from it.

If you opt to enter into counselling with him, his mother has to be discussed- that has to be non-negotiable. If he insists that she can't be mentioned then I don't see much value in you starting the process unless you are only going to openly work out how you are going to manage your split from each other.

This is predominantly about you asserting your right to be treated properly by him and your mil. You ARE entitled to that. You ARE worthy of being listened to and your feelings ARE as important as everyone else's.

You've reached your limit and have found your boundaries. Make sure you continue to hold them front and centre. What happens after that - split or stay, only you can decide. Either way, change has to happen - don't sink back into your H's narrative that this is normal.

Your MIL had your BIL when she was 12? Your H has no respect for you. I'd stop doing anything when she stays, he can look after her.

Just seen your update re ages, sorry

Is your MIL from the Indian subcontinent by any chance? I come from that region and some of her behaviours are surprisingly familiar! Not that it excuses it, but sets a cultural context

I know someone like this (we are of Indian background), but the marriage is only 4 years old. However the dynamics are so similar. All I can say is Run OP but be one step ahead (get legal advice) as people like this are very manipulative and will try to paint you as an unfit mother/wife.

She sounds seriously deranged. Screaming, crying, throwing herself onto the bed. How you don’t burst out laughing at her is beyond me.

First thing your h needs to do is stop telling mummy everything. That way you can holiday without mrs amateur dramatics popping up.
Secondly, he needs to learn to say no, sorry that’s not possible. If she says why he replies that’s not possible sorry and end the conversation.

Why have you stayed so long?
I don't think there's any point in counselling because your DH doesn't see anything wrong with his (unhealthy) relationship with his mother and just wants you to go along with whatever s/he dictates.

I think you need to accept that he's not going to change and be the husband you want him to be and start taking steps to leave this marriage. I think it's not unlike women who stay with men who are physically abusive or alcoholics. You desperately hope he will have a lightbulb moment and change, but you need to get to a point where you accept this is the way he will always be. (And possible worsen when she dies.)

Make an appt. with a solicitor to discuss your rights and get an action plan together so that you can leave. I think you might benefit from some form of counselling yourself to help you process your feelings.

It will be tough in the short term but you will come out the other side and be so much happier without this burden weighing you down.
Hugs to you OP.

@Madamswearsalot My DH has said he will go to Counselling but i cannot say whether he will discuss his mother in great detail. he may just discuss himself. I have told him there is zero point going to joint counselling when we are at such odds but if after his own counselling we are more joined in thinking then it may work. Other than his mother, we actually get on very well. We have similar interests and enjoy each others company but he is, as he ages, becoming more like her. I think he sees everyone dance to her tune and think if he plays some of her tricks he will get the same dance.

@happychange @BreadSauceHmm my DH is not of Indian heritage but when I see issues such as this discussed on forums in general it does seem to be a factor in Indian culture. I have friends who are Indian and they are very united and their parents don't interfere. My DH and MIL actually would say it was culture difference and I accepted that for a long time but over time I have watched other families in their culture and the MIL doesn't dictate everything. The only other family I see it with is the MIL's brother who is also very controlling and controls his sons through money so I think it is more a personality/their family thing than culture. DH was talking with MIL and her brother on skype and they were all laughing. I asked what was funny and he said that MIL brother was talking about money he was giving his son 1 for a car and his business and MIL was laughing that he won't give son 2 any money because he has loads of student debt and he knows if he paid off the debt he would go travelling and he doesn't want him to go travelling and they all had a laugh about how the brother gives son 1 money so he is indebted to him and refuses to give son 2 money because he is freespirited and he wants to keep him near through student debt.

@FrostythefeckinSnowman I believe this is the line I will end up going down but want to give DH an opportunity to go to Counselling to see if he does have the lightbulb moment. He probably won't, realistically but I want to give it a chance.

I’m not one for usually saying this, OP, I don’t think this can be fixed.
I would be seeking legal advice.
Sorry.

Nope, /none/ of this is your fault, you /didnt/ normalise it, you tried to speak out to your husband about it and he spoke you back down. It's /his/ fault and I would definitely walk away with the kids until he does something reasonable about it and sticks to the changes.

OP that's ridiculous. I think you need to give him an ultimatum.

This is ridiculous! There are no lightbulbs on the horizon, this is who he is and more importantly, who he wants to be. The dynamic is far too entrenched for joint counselling to fix.
M

Your DH needs to get his shit together. The relationship with his mother is clearly not healthy as it is to the detriment to his relationship with you.

You should be his #1. Simple as imo.

I felt quite stressed reading that OP. What a nightmare.

You need to get thee well away from Norman Bates and his mother.

If she’s only 62, this problem possibly won’t go away for a very long time, unless he makes changes. I’m not sure their relationship can be changed. It sounds so intense.

That is an impressive list.
You are a saint for putting up with it.
I would also struggle not to laugh at someone throwing a hissy fit like that.
I think you are going to have to do couples counseling so he can see where the problem lies

It may also help you separate and co parent together.