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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Think DH is enmeshed with mother

41 replies

mountainwoman1 · 22/11/2019 13:38

I have name changed for this. This is very long so apologies but I don't know how to shorten.

I am married 13 years with DH 15 years with two DC. My marriage is in serious difficulty to the point I have told DH I can't continue as we are DH has agreed to go to Counselling and wants to save the marriage. I believe his relationship with his mother is dysfunctional and is having an affect on our marriage whilst he thinks they are close and that I am just jealous of their relationship. If I try to discuss his mother, he gets very defensive. When I first suggested joint counselling he agreed, as long as we don't bring his mother into it as it has nothing to do with her. I do not believe I am a priority nor indeed is our child. His mother and pleasing his mother appears to be his primary focus. I don't see how you can maintain a marriage when your primary focus is not your wife and child.

We do not live in the same Country as his mother so if she visits she is with us for a week or two. My DH also skypes/viber calls her so you can see/hear her during these calls. So although she is not in the Country she is essentially there. So her influence, despite distance, is very much felt. Relations have been poor for a longtime and he has visited her with our DC but now I feel that our DC should not be subjected to her behaviour and am prepared to walk away from the relationship if this is not dealt with. Has anyone ever had a husband who was enmeshed with their mother? Did it improve with Counselling.?

Some examples of reasons I think he is enmeshed are:

  1. He will never say no to her. She can visit whenever she pleases and I have been told this. He does not discuss with me dates that suit the family. It is simply whatever date suits her.
  2. We cannot go on holidays anywhere near his home country because she will come too. My DH refuses to say that she is not invited. If she decides to come he claims she will just turn up and he can't say no to this as she is his mother. We have gone on some holidays far away but he always skypes/vibe messages her on these holidays and she always criticises the place putting a damper on my DH mood.
  3. She refuses to eat out so when she visits us, she insists that I make food for her and we cannot do long day trips because we have to get back for the food I have cooked. Because I have to cook, I also can't go on the trips. My DH never insists that she eat out, insists that i should just cook because it is only for a while etc. he doesn't understand that it is the control/insistence that is the problem, not the actual cooking.
  4. He wanted to back out of a house purchase because she told him to.We had been searching for the perfect house for a year. When we finally found it and both loved it, he sent her a picture. She said no, pick something else. We fought for weeks over it and eventually we agreed to go ahead but he wanted to not proceed solely because she said "no, pick something else" although he claimed he himself had changed his mind. Which I don't believe.
  5. Any communication with his father and brother is only through her. He never telephones or speaks with his father/brother unless she is there/says they should speak.
  6. His brother lives with her (he is fifty), doesn't work, doesn't have even one friend, doesn't cook or do anything for himself. He has only worked for one year of his life which was in the company that she works for. That is it. My DH can see this is not right but thinks his relationship with her is different.
  7. Because his brother and father fight all the time, my MIL decided he should come live with us for a while, to give her a well deserved break from parenting, and we can get him a job. She booked flights for him and then, when they were booked, informed my DH that his brother was coming. I told DH he and his brother could live together but his brother was not living with us. In the end his mother did cancel the tickets but my DH never said anything other than we don't have room at the moment. He didn't say that she had no right to be booking flights and deciding her other son would live with us without discussion.
  8. She is extremely rude and disrespectful towards me and my DH does nothing about it except say that's just the way she is. He constantly puts pressure on me to just get on with it because she is old and frail (she is 62 and still working) and that I hardly ever see her anymore. The disrepect/comments/passive agressiveness is also through the skype/viber calls though. I never speak to her on these calls though.
  9. If DH ever disagrees with her she will either get extremely angry and shouts or she will sulk.
10.She is constantly talking about her health and how she doesn't have long to live and what will he do when she is gone etc. If he doesn't agree with her, she will claim a heart condition etc. 11. He talks at great length about what she did for him as a child. How she looked after him when he was sick or how she made him meals etc. All seems standard stuff to me but she talks about it and how great she was as a mother at every opportunity. 12. She starts massive arguments whenever she visits over the most minute stuff. The first time, it was because my DH asked me to look something up on google for him and his mother. This was after a very long day of work/childcare and I said "can you not look that up yourself? his mother became hysterical and threw herself on the bed crying that she couldn't believe I was so rude and spoke like that. That I had no respect for my DH and didn't deserve him. The second time it was because they came back after at day trip quite late with my DC who was in school the next day. They hadn't eaten out (she refuses to) so I made a quick snack for my DC whilst my DH popped out for something. I then brought my DC to bed and when DH came back I could hear her screaming and crying. When I went back into the room (after my DC was asleep) they were both eating a meal. I asked my DH if his mother was upset and he said "wouldn't you be". I then (regrettably) apologied for not making my MIL the same snack as DC (even though I intended to when DC was asleep). She started crying uncontrollably at the level of disrespect I had shown and my DH was very annoyed with me. After she left, I told DH that I didn't want her visiting again but she has since. 13. She is constantly making sly digs about me and my DH never defends me, just ignores her.

The main reason why this is affecting us is because my DH is starting to act manipulative himself and because he has normalised her behaviour he is repeating it. I feel like their is a third person in our marriage whilst he thinks he is just close to her. I have told DH that I don;t want to continue with the marriage and he has asked for time for him to go to Counselling etc. I enabled the behaviour for so long too so feel at fault. I do love my DH and outside of dealing with his DM and the fact that he now reminds me, at times, of her, we do get on great.

Sorry again for the extreme length. Has anyone been through this and got through it or did you divorce for this reason? TBH now that I have decided that I am prepared to walk away I feel relief that I will never have to see her again but I do love my DH so great sadness at the same time. I actually feel physically ill when I hear her voice.

OP posts:
Hadalifeonce · 23/11/2019 07:28

His mother has coercive control over him, until is able to recognise that for himself and get help to get out of it, it will never change.

I am sorry, but if this doesn't happen, you will be stuck in this 3 way relationship, and if you try to fight her, he will probably side with her and will emotionally move further away from you.

Hadalifeonce · 23/11/2019 07:29
  • until he is
Blushingm · 23/11/2019 11:12

My ex and his Dm was the same - we are now getting divorced. If she was happy that's all that mattered - she was his 1st priority. He told her EVERYTHING including intimate details of our sex life and thought it was ok for her to approach me about it

lexiepuppy · 23/11/2019 11:19

Buy the book: When he’s married to Mom, How to help mother enmeshed men. Kenneth M. Adams.

I was married to a Mem who could never see that there was 3 in our marriage.
He made important, big financial decisions with his mother and not me.
He never defended me and the children when she was spiteful to us.
She was a narcissist/ histrionic and my ex h was high in narcissistic traits.
When we had relate counselling he didn’t want to discuss his mother.
I said, it was like talking about the war but not being able to mention hitler!

He was abusive to me and the children, physically, emotionally, verbally.
Since divorcing him and trying to work out all that happened, I realise he took his anger and frustration out on me and the children after speaking to her. We were his punchbag, but he would never stand upto her.

I often wonder what our marriage would have been like if she wasn’t there. He gave her a key to our house and she would just show up and let herself in.

He always put her first, always.

The straw that broke the camels back was when my Fil died ( he was like a father to me), my ex h moved her into our house without discussion. She caused so many problems, she stayed for 6 months. The children hated her. She threatened to punch my son when he was 9 years old!

Your husband has got to want to change and do the counselling or your marriage will not work.
He also has to acknowledge that his mother is a problem...... something my ex husband could never do.

Infact he would rather blame me than his mother every time!

Good luckFlowers

lexiepuppy · 23/11/2019 11:28

When I divorced my ex husband I also divorced her. I have heard he is living and working or her at 47 years old. She has financial control of him.
She chose the woman he is with, because of her status and finances.

She always hated me and his previous girlfriends.

His mother dictated my Fils life, she financially controlled him. I tried desperately to stick up for my Fil as he was so ill.

My ex and his mother were both abusive narcissists and there is so much more to my story.

My daughter says I should write a book about it!

My advice is:
If he won’t acknowledge that his mother is a problem and get counselling from a counsellor who deals with enmeshment, then I would seriously start getting your ducks in a row and prepare to leave.
FlowersFlowersFlowers

mountainwoman1 · 23/11/2019 14:19

@lexiepuppy so sorry for what happened to you but at least you are free now. I believe my MIL is a narc but my DH does have empathy and is not abusive so I don't believe he is but he does copy her behaviours and can be manipulative.

My DH is starting counselling next week. I asked what he proposes to discuss and he mentioned stuff about not making me feel special but made no reference to his mother. I told him we are not his priority and he says we are but I just reiterated that his actions say otherwise. I will see how it goes. If he doesn't wish to discuss her it is an absolute waste of time and I will walk. I amnot waiting for it to escalate which I believe it will. My only consolidation, if you could call it that, is that she controls his poor brother so much that is difficult to deny there is a problem with her behaviour. Hope you and your family are doing well

OP posts:
lexiepuppy · 23/11/2019 14:54

@mountainwoman1
Thanks for your kind words!
Please don’t put up with him putting his mother first for 18 years like I did.
It was soul destroying! I wish I had gone on MN years ago, as I have only been on it a couple of months. I now realise just how much I put up with from both ex h and ex mil.

The mother of an enmeshed man is usually personality disordered in some way.

I am free of them both now and they are both someone else’s problem!

I have the support of my Flowersex mils best friend of 50 years helping me, she could not believe how myself and the children were so badly treated after my Fil died, as he had taken a lot of the abuse from her.

If they don’t get proper counselling and acknowledge their mother’s destructive ways, I don’t honestly think you can have a relationship/marriage with a Mem, unless you are prepared to be a doormat. IMO.Flowers

wafflyversatile · 23/11/2019 15:10

Well you've been in this for a long time and he says he is willing to go to counselling so if you want to see if your marriage can improve I would give therapy a chance.

Ask him not to tell his mother hes going to counselling
I would start with couples counselling.
As he says he doesn't want to talk about his mum speak to the counsellor separately and explain this, what you see the issue as, what you hope to get out of it etc. Counsellors will often do a combination of joint and separate sessions.
Maybe a counsellor will help him think about her in different ways and come to different conclusions than the ones he has now. Maybe not.

Good luck!

Stooshie8 · 23/11/2019 15:40

Could you afford to go and speak to a solicitor to see what would happen if you split. The money/ house/ DC/ would you work full time/prt time etc.
If you can get it clear in your head what the 'worst' scenario is (ie divorce) and how things would go and what you would do.
Then you are in a position to tackle DH seriously. Otherwise it is just you making demands (in his eyes) and him pretending to change, or arguing that you are unreasonable. Or changing his behaviour then changing back after a couple of months.
If you can say that you are being forced to leave him as you can't put up with this half marriage it gives him the final warning that if he doesn't change his marriage is over. If he doesn't change you should get him to move out.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/11/2019 16:33

Has anyone ever had a husband who was enmeshed with their mother? Did it improve with Counselling?

Yes I have, and no it didn't - the key point being that it had all gone too far for him to want to change (or even acknowledge what the problem really was)

Sadly your DH sounds the same, so while it could be worth a few weeks of counselling I really wouldn't waste much time in making your decision

Thesispieces · 23/11/2019 16:44

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

lexiepuppy · 23/11/2019 22:53

I massively urge anyone in an enmeshed relationship to read the book :When he’s married to Mom. By Kenneth M Adams.

I read an article that said Mem are so consumed by guilt for their mother’s that they will always put them first.

Counsellors will have to know about enmeshment to help. The relate counsellor I saw with Ex, hadn’t got a clue!

Bluemascara4 · 23/11/2019 23:07

I feel your pain OP and I've actually cited my MiL in my reasons for divorce .

STBX calls her 'little mummy" and tells me I should never upset her despite her hurling abuse at me

lexiepuppy · 24/11/2019 09:29

@bluemascara4
I should have cited my Mil in my divorce papers. She has dictated all what has gone into the financial settlement and what she wants.

She is a devious, spiteful, materialistic narcissist and he is welcome to her!

Well done for becoming free!

madcatladyforever · 24/11/2019 09:34

What cultural background is she from?
My mum is white and married a man from India when I was quite young and it sounds very like his family setup. My mum had to fit in or ship out because nothing will ever change.

mountainwoman1 · 24/11/2019 11:31

@madcatladyforever not Indian. my MIL and DH explain things by culture but that's just as excuse. They are European if it's put up or leave then I will leave

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