can a misogynist really love a woman

[damnthatanxiety]

Is misogyny so deeply intrenched in a man that there is no hope of having a full and loving equal relationship with him? It seems that misogynists always let women down and never let their male buddies down. Do you think misogynists crave the approval of other men as well as hate, fear or look down upon women? Why then do they get into relationships/marriage. Why not just stay single and hang out with the boys?

Misogyny is deeply entrenched and reflected in all aspects of society. I can ask a similar question: Can somebody brought up under Apartheid on the side of privilege, ever truly respect and love someone they have been brought up to see as 'lesser' than?

The majority stick to the status quo as it works in their favour and keeps them in a position of power and privilege.

I would say that someone who sees you as less than human can never love you.

12345kbm I have known people born under Apartheid with privilege who do understand the wrongs. But they are probably in the minority and possibly had some kind of personal motivation to change. I supposed that is the answer. It depends on whether the person has a questioning soul and a true willingness to grow and become a better person. I guess that is quite rare...I just wonder how someone can not see that their behaviours and beliefs are born of a negative outlook and how they don't see how detrimental that is to THEIR OWN life. Feeling resentment towards all women and feeling like all women are somehow less than them...that is a really bad place to dwell. How do they not feel that? How do you go about internally angry and not feel the need to change? The want to change?

Maybe he could love her like he loves a thing or a possession ? But not true love .

A misogynist doesn’t actually like or respect women he most certainly couldn’t love a woman.

I think it's a non question. Misogyny = dislike and contempt for women. It precludes love.

Misogynists who form relationships with women want something other than equality and respect within the relationship. That doesn't mean that they don't want certain things from women.

You need to define "love".
You also need to define "misogynist".

I think romantic love = emotional attachment, including physical/biochemical elements, between adults, that includes a sexual aspect. It makes folk want to be in close physical proximity to each other, and it motivates folk to maintain that proximity.

I think a misogynist is someone who thinks women arent quite as human as men, that men deserve special treatment ahead of women and need to be prioritized in all ways ahead of women and children.

Almost all people can experience romantic love, including misogynists. It is a normal human experience, to love.

I think what we need to interrupt in our culture is the idea that "love" is somehow a protected, special thing that makes abuse acceptable.

A terrible person can love you, and be incredibly nasty to you, and you could feel love back to them. But the trick is to realize that love isnt that special. It develops pretty easily between people. We are built to love... and so, if someone you love hurts you, realise that walking away ain't that scary in reality.

My BIL is a misogynist. My SIL is extremely unhappy. He'd say he loves her. He doesn't.

A terrible person can love you, and be incredibly nasty to you, and you could feel love back to them. But the trick is to realize that love isnt that special. It develops pretty easily between people. We are built to love... and so, if someone you love hurts you, realise that walking away ain't that scary in reality.

This is so true. A good friend of mine is finding it hard to leave her abusive DH because he loves her. And I think there's no point telling her, or her convincing herself that he doesn't 'really' love her. He plainly does adore her. Why wouldn't he? She lovely! Love is quite easy and natural.

Realising that somebody loves you but they don't know how to treat you well and probably never will is a very hard thing to accept because we think we have to be grateful for love. But most women are lovable and can find someone else who will recognise that. Or they could live more happily alone.

Really good points.

Do you think misogynists can stop being misogynists?

I suppose a misogynist could have affectionate, loving feelings towards his female partner. But it's not love. He would have to respect her in order to truly love her.

"Why then do they get into relationships/marriage. Why not just stay single and hang out with the boys?"

This is obvious, surely? To have a woman to fuck, keep house for him, and maybe have some kids for him too so he can pass on his magnificent genes and his superior manly surname?

AnotherEmma
To have a woman to fuck, keep house for him, and maybe have some kids for him

Well as I keep hearing men moaning that their wives no longer want sex, I wonder how misogynists cope when their wives stop being interested in them in bed! I can't imagine sex with a selfish lover would be very satisfying!

They have no idea that their attitude means they will never have really hot sex Fucking a compliant wife is never going to be mind-blowing, hot sex is it! They literally make it worse for themselves.

Agree with AnotherEmma.

I know a couple where the man is a horrific misogynist. His wife (my friend) is a fairly tough, resourceful feminist. She believes 100% that he loves her. Outwardly, she is the only person he appears to behave well towards.

But she knows and observes how he behaves towards and about other women. It's clear to me that she is extremely useful to him (beautiful children/keeps him right domestically/fawns over him and does a lot of PDA which boosts his image). Why it isn't clear to her, I can't tell. Or perhaps it is but she gets something out of being the one woman he's not actively vile or dismissive towards.

Its upbringing and reading too much incel shit online and watching too much porn. I don't think it's possible to fix a misogynist yourself if that's what you're considering op, I hope its not.

They have no idea that their attitude means they will never have really hot sex

IME most of them cheat.

nibdedibble
How do you know your friend believes he loves her? Have you discussed him with her? How does she justify his appalling behaviour around other women if she is a feminist? Is she in denial?

Does he actually treat her well and apparently lovingly or is that just her perception?

"I wonder how misogynists cope when their wives stop being interested in them in bed!"

They have affairs. Obviously! And/or leave their wives for a younger sexier model.

Nah, loads of people have strong feelings of love (attachment) for those that they don't respect.

Most abusive parents strongly love their children, but they don't respect them.

Until really recently in history, women weren't really seen as people and definitely weren't roundly respected. Does that mean that no man ever loved a woman until the 20th century or so?

It's dangerous to conflate love and respect. Because the concept of "love" and the feelings that most people perceive as making up the experience of "love" are so incredibly strong, that folk will imagine "respect" in order to tell themselves that the love they're experiencing is OK and they should stay in a bad, even violent relationship.

For example, they'll look at their misogynist partner and say "well he never speaks to other women, he really respects me and our relationship, so he must love me, so that's true love and I'll stay in the relationship" while completely missing the point that he may love her (i.e., want to be and stay close to her), while also being absolutely poisonous and having little to no respect for her as a human being.

You can love anyone. You can love your torturer. We just tend to call that Stockholm syndrome because we get uncomfortable with the truth of that idea.

The cold truth is that love is cheap and easy, it can exist along with loads of other awful behaviours, beliefs and feelings (including respect or lack thereof).

I can almost guarantee that there are people who can ONLY love (i.e., want to be close to) those who they have NO respect for. Who think that love can and may only exist where there is a power imbalance.

I just get a bit edgy when I see folk project very noble things (like the idea of respecting someone else) onto the concept of "love". Love isn't that great. It's not pure or good, it's a thing that happens in our brains to keep people together so that they were less likely to be eaten by predators or freeze to death in the stone age.... deifying "love" as this special pure thing, and tacking on things like "respect", is part of how women are conned into staying in shit relationships

posted too soon...

when you tell an abused woman "he doesn't love you, because he doesn't respect you", you're putting her in a shit position because she probably KNOWS he loves her - love is one thing that almost all human beings can feel, so strongly, and it's incredibly hard to walk away from. So to stay in the relationship, she will convince herself he also respects her, because someone told her that you can't have love without respect.

Whereas if we are just honest about it - "darling, he may love you, but that ain't that special. You need someone who loves you AND doesn't assault you" - she at least has space to start to learn that just because he and she feel love for each other, that doesn't mean the relationship is one that should continue.

rvby fantastic reply. Thank you

rvby you are so so right and so clear and knowledgable on this topic. Really, thank you.

Great post rvby
Lots of food for thought.

rvby
Absolutely spot on, you have completely convinced me - I was wrong and you right.

you are right

I imagine they can love a woman but just never respect her an equal. Wouldn't make for much of a relationship though.