At my absolute wits end constant suside threats,

[Karenisbaren]

Ok this is going to be very long so please bare with me.
My son started smoking weed at around aged 15, I did not know this at the time till he was brought home with the police one day and I was fuming.

At around 20 his behaviour became erratic, he had a massive meltdown one evening, threw the bedroom telly and threw something at his father head, we got him arrested and thought he would come home with his tail between his legs, we told him he had one more chance and that if he ever kicked off again he would be leaving and finding his own place.

2 days later he came downstairs in front of the children with a razerblade saying he was going to cut his throat, 100% at this point I realised it was drugs, long and short of it he got sectioned. He had to find his own place to live.

Over the next year he was sectioned several times, was very abusive towards us constantly threatening to commit susicde and generally being horrible,

Because of the things that have happened he is not allowed to see the children in out family that are under 18. He keeps asking, i have to keep saying no.

Our son has done some nasty things and I mean nasty, his abuse towards us and the constant suscide threats are absolutely killing me.

Yesterday I took him and his older brother out for the day, he was as high as anything, was again abusive it just ruined the trip, today feeling sorry for himself said he was going to these woods where people are notorious for hanging themselves and he has threatened to go there in the past and do it.

Now I cant take anymore I truly cant, my weight over the last few years has dropped, I am depressed, I cant remeber the last time I was happy. Do I just cut this son off? I cannot obide his behaviour anymore, I cant stand the lies, the manipulation, the head games, the susicde threats I just cannot do it.

This is a South African website, but worth visiting.

www.toughlove.org.za

"TOUGHLOVE® is a loving solution for families that are being torn apart by unacceptable behaviour, be it drugs, alcohol, substance, verbal or physical abuse."

Wow I'm glad your not my mother... 'do I just cut this son off'
I understand this is difficult but a mother helps helps and helps some more. You don't give up. His parents are the only people in this world that will (should) be by his side ALWAYS!

Have you read the whole thread, BellyButton - or are you a friend of BumbleBee? Parents can't always help, and the OP has tried and tried. Some people have been so unkind on this thread

Bellybutton
A parent can only help their adult child to a certain degree. The adult child also has to want to help themselves. This should not be to the detriment of the parent, who also has needs and cannot even begin to help in a constructive way if they don’t put their mental health first. This also must not be to the detriment of minor or other vulnerable household members. Part of this process may require hitting rock bottom.

I’ve witnessed how bad it can be with dh’s cousin. We tried to help for about 10 years before abandoning him because he didn’t want the help but to be a parasite. He has bankrupt his mother, whom he beats up and abuses. There are reasons behind his behaviour. But as an adult he has purposely chosen not to address them or engage with psychiatrists. He isn’t in the uk btw. I called and asked his GP if he could be sectioned but the laws in his country are different and it wasn’t an option.

I suspect you actually have two sons with special needs...one just hasn't been diagnosed yet.

People with neurological disorders such as ADHD, ADD and ASD often use drugs to self-medicate. I suggest reading up on these conditions to see if anything rings a bell.

It sounds like you are both in so much pain its a nightmare as a parent. It does sound like he has mental health issues perhaps they developed at that age or a combination with the weed. Does he have a diagnosis? What support does he have ? Treatment ? Does he have any good supportive friends? This is just my own experience but when younger I knew a few people who lived alone at a young age ( I was only young at the time ) but they both had some mental health difficulties, struggled alone, lack of money , probably at times made poor decisions , what I wanted to say was I think they were both lonely and a bit lost and that resulted in letting lots of people into their flats , partying alot, drinking , one ended up using harder drugs. My group would go around have drinks hang out ect but I know at least one of them had numerous groups of people who did this ( lots of friends some used drugs ) so the drinking with friends was done with numerous groups of people. I think sometimes in cases like these it's easy for the person with their own place at a young age who's lonely, depressed , struggling, to get mixed up with maybe not the best crowds and even be taken advantage of. One of my female friends moved out very young and she let lots of people into her house as she was lonely, she got stolen from alot , house got wrecked ect as most of the people were not her friends but just saw her home as somewhere to party. I dont think personally I could turn my back on my son, hes obviously had alot go on and has an illness but you obviously cant let him endanger your other children. How do you feel your relationship is ? Are they any better times? Do you spend any time with him? Are there any positive times left ? Have you managed to have any conversations about his wants, Hope's, needs ect ? Do you think he is open to getting help ?

Why is everyone’s answer on MN to suggest an underlying diagnosis of ASD or ADHD? You may as well add in depression, schizophrenia etc etc as people with those diagnosis also self medicate with drugs. However the vast majority don’t make multiple suicide threats and end up going to hospital to then be discharged promptly. They tend to be people with BPD. You do get rare cases of someone later being diagnosed with an underlying psychosis however these are rare. OP your DS is going to have to reach out and get the help he needs. If he has a psychiatric team I would suggest you speak to them and ask for advice, they won’t be able to discuss his case specifically due to confidentiality but they should be able to offer some advice. You may also wish to see if there are any parents and carer support groups in your local area.

What an awful situation for you op, you cannot control your son's choices, and I think the psychiatrist was absolutely right saying off you pop then when he threatened suicide as he is using it as a control over you.
You do have to put yourself first, I think very simplistically that the more his 'bad' behaviour gets attention and reaction then the more he will continue with it. Until he shows any sign of wanting to change then your hands are tied. Sometimes people have to be allowed to hit rock bottom before they actively want to change, the choice is his, but it must be devastating as a parent.

Hi OP I would follow that InterestedWoman above said. Also five family deaths in five years plus a sibling who required a LOT of attention are difficult things for children and young adults to process on an emotional level, even if they can rationalise them (my sibling needed more than me, of course). To get more of an understanding of this I would suggest looking into Adverse Childhood Experiences otherwise known as ACEs.

I only suggest that to help understand that the sort of things that negatively affect children later on can be wider than what we know as abuse and can be uncontrollable life circumstances. The study that came to this conclusion was run by a doctor and had over 17,000 participants. It's got real basis and in Scotland the government is taking it on board.

You will see from the questionnaire linked below, that protecting your other children from this DSs behaviour is very positive for them. Your instincts are great.

I also think you need to set boundaries with DS and get help for yourself. You must be thoroughly exhausted, especially as it sounds like even without him, you need to give a lot of yourself at home. So my suggestion is a mixture of what's been said above. You need to reduce contact with him to the minimum - very very low contact. Don't give him money. But also do it lovingly. There's a difference between "You're an emotional bastard bigger off" and "I know you've had a really hard time, I realise I wasn't there as much as you needed when you were younger and I'm sorry. I love you, always have and always will. We are where we are and you are now an adult. Your behaviour is impossible to be around because of the drugs. You need to go and get yourself sorted out before you can come back into this house/spend time with us/whatever". And I personally would follow that with a letter at some point (when or IF it felt right) saying how much you love him, always have and will with NO blame. A love letter to your eldest. He'll likely kick off at all this and you will need to stand firm. He has a reason to be emotionally disturbed outside the drug taking, but he does not have the right to essentially steal your life, or his siblings'.

You have been doing your best in really hard and very persistent circumstances. There's nothing more you could have done. He is not in this situation because of you, life just has shitty circumstances sometimes. I can't imagine how hard it would have to be to need to put your child at low or no contact but I don't think there's any other option here. You need a break and you still need to be a parent to other children. And you still need some energy for yourself too.

because this is a really hard place to be.

http://traumadissociation.com/ace

Your son sounds like he has Borderline Personality Disorder. Suicide threats, manipulation, slave to Emotions, superficial self harm, getting sectioned with no diagnosis

Many doctors will not label BPDs because of stigma surrounding borderlines, but use other terms like PTSD which is more socially acceptable for your son to say he has

Has nobody mentioned that your son likely has BPD?

In any case he is more a danger to emotionally harm others than himself. I would worry about your other kids & ensuring they are protected from him

Weed alone doesn’t do this. Someone needs to have an underlying psychotic feature & BPD’s are so delusional it is said to border on psychosis at times.

Please stop pandering to him & his issues. Borderlines need tough love & not mollycoddling. Cut him off, show him you will not put up with his abuse. They only learn to fall in line with tough love, boundaries & rules.

People who are suicidal don’t use it as a threat & they don’t make superficial wounds. This is why the doctor told him to “get on with it” if he was intent on suiciding. They know full well it’s a manipulation tactic.

Hospitals are notorious for despising their waste of time borderlines are on the health system. Some poor person with Schmitzophrenia who needs to be sectioned has missed out while your son suckles on the taxpayer’s they wasting our resources because they are “emotionally scarred”

I have no time for borderlines after being exposed to several. everybody has trauma & grief to deal with. It is simply not OK to make to your problems everyone else’s priority.

Usually with borderlines their emotional needs were not met in childhood. They are stuck with the emotional need of a toddler. Unfortunately once you are an adult they need to learn a tough lesson that the world does not revolve around them.

It’s a cluster B personality disorder. Which means basically it’s his character that is flawed, he likely doesn’t have any mental health issue that is a brain problem. This is why medication doesn’t help them.

Look into dialectic behaviour therapy (DBT) and make a time to talk to his mental health team & ask them to be upfront with you about his BPD diagnosis - it will be in his medical notes for sure

The armchair psychiatrists are out in force today!

The OP not allowing her son back in the house is NOT turning her back on him. She can still help him at arms length, but she has other kids to take care of as well. Should their childhoods be ruined as well by a drug-taking aggressive manipulative brother? In a few years, the OP could have another situation like this!!

Dont let him in the house. Tell him its all predicated on the weed. If he stops smoking, finds himself a treatment place, then he can discuss coming home. But not until then.

Sorry I havent read through all the posts but the last one, I am going to read through them now, however as for us having to tell our son he could not come back home, can you imagine your children having to witness their older brother coming downstairs with a razor saying he was going to slit his throat? or throwing things around the house? or cutting himself in front of the other children? I had a phonecall from socail services and I gave them my word that he would not see the children under 18, I have a duty to protect them so I am sorry if you think he should have stayed at home, I dont.

prawnsword I do not beleive he has Bpd I beleive he is on the spectrum and adhd, the first hospital confirmed he was aspergers and when he went onto the next hospital I spoke to the pychaitrist and said as much but they just would not listen.

I think it’s a bit simplistic, and a bit ignorant tbh to say that all people labelled as BPD are cluster B leeches on resources. BPD is diagnosed often because the medical model doesn’t have the analysis to cope with people who have complex needs. It’s said that a significant number of people who are labelled as BPD actually have CPTSD. It can also be due to a lot of other things, undiagnosed ASD/ADHD could definitely be possible. Basically any number of things could be going on with a person who has been labelled BPD which might not be anything of the sort.

I disagree that weed will not cause mental illness. It might not trigger mental illness in someone who has no other underlying predisposition, but it can have a devastating affect on people who might otherwise be quite mentally healthy, or at least only have mild symptoms that would usually be manageable and fly well under the radar, and especially if someone starts smoking it when their brain is still developing. I had a bit of depression beforehand. I had been through some very difficult things including a difficult adolescence and an abusive marriage, and as soon as I started my problems went from occasionally being disruptive to full on meltdown unmanageable. I actually have a diagnosis of Bipolar, although I’m not sure whether I really do or whether the dope kicked off the symptoms, including psychosis. I think it might have been underlying, as I’ve had episodes before, but nothing on the magnitude of what happened when I started smoking pot.

I think it’s dangerous to propagate the lie that weed is harmless, because anyone who works in MH or addiction services will tell you a very different story. It’s not like the puff we used to smoke back in the day, the stuff you buy now is so so much stronger. Where as I could get high back in the day and then go on stage and play guitar without a problem, a spliff nowadays would have me staring into the middle distance for two hours grinding my own brain and hardly able to speak.

Unfortunately people who have complex trauma, undiagnosed ASD/ADHD and any number of issues self medicate, and as I’ve said in my PP, once weed makes you ill, it won’t let you get better. The only way to even start is to get completely off and stay completely off. It’s more addictive than you think for some people, and it always drags you back down again. I’ve been through it myself, and I’ve seen many others go through the same, and the only way to get stable enough to work on any underlying issues is to completely stop. It is an addiction though, so easier said than done, and like any addiction it’s far easier just to carry on using as an excuse to avoid working on the other stuff.

Like I said on the previous page, I think the OP will need to let her DS get on with it. She’ll go round and round in circles as long as he’s still using, and while he might be ok for weeks, even months at a time, it’ll always drag him back down. The only way to get anywhere near dealing with whatever is going on with him, if there is anything going on, is for him to be clean, and believe me, it’s easier to keep using if there are no consequences. It’s like any other addiction in that you have to make the decision to stop yourself, and in order to do that sometimes you have to lose things. I gave up on my own for my own reasons, but it was the thought of losing things, people, that made me do it.

OP this thread is difficult reading, and some of the posts are really unhelpful, but I think you know deep down what you need to do. At the end of the day you can’t control what your DS does, and if he does go away and kill himself then I’m afraid there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it. The fact that he makes threats and theatre about it suggests that he probably won’t try it for real, but as his psychiatrist has already told you, he might just do it by accident. From my own experience I’d say that I was much less likely to do anything drastic when left to my own devices, because basically all I wanted to do was wallow, so in that respect it might well be better just to let him get on with it.It will never be because you’ve told him to that he finally gives up the weed I’m afraid and until he gets there himself you’ll keep going around in the same old circles. I have an alcoholic XH, and the best thing for me and DS has been to just let him get on with it. I tried to intervene several times both when I was with him and after I left and it made no difference whatsoever. The only thing that has made him dry out, for the moment at least, is damaging himself almost to the point of death. I’m sorry to say that you will have to do the same as I did, because it’s a bloody hard wall to keep banging your head against. Your DS is an adult now, so he is free to make his own decisions, even if they are incredibly bad ones, and as you can’t control what another adult does, you’ll have to control what you do instead.

Interestedwoman You are right, he has been buying adhd meds black market as they help him, he does not have a mental health team at the moment as he kept missing appointments and they struck him off, however he is on the waiting list to be seen.

He has been drinking heavily and smoking weed, I have been trying to support him as best as I can, however I cannot get anything done.

BellyButton85 Unfortunately my son has done some not very nice things I think your statement is very naive.

Whatisthisfuckery thank you and everyone else that had some vaulable input.