Am I an idiot? Infidelity due to mental illness?

[QueenBing]

I posted back in August (sorry, not sure how to link the thread, it was called Husband just told me he’s been having an affair). My husband drip fed he’d had an affair for 3 weeks, I forgave, after all we’d been together 13 years, married 11, 2 kids, a 3 week fling wasn’t going to ruin everything we had. However, something wasn’t sitting right so I went digging and then it came out a month later he’d seen a sex worker for oral sex, he’d seen a 50 year old for oral sex, he’d slept with his former head of department at school twice (I’ve since confronted her and she’s denied it and I’ve messaged her husband and he’s ignored me), he’s messaged a load of women on Kik and craigslist and some men as he’s even questioned his sexuality and all of this has been over a period of 18 months. The people he’s messaged he’s had no sexual contact with. The people he’s had sexual contact with he hasn’t used protection with so I marched us both to the clinic. Fortunately we are both ok.

When all of this other stuff came out, he ended up in a psychiatric hospital for a week following an overdose and he’s been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder with a subtype of impulsive behaviour and sex addiction. This stems from childhood and other behaviours too plus other mental health issues over a prolonged period that he’s never fully accepted help for as he’s never fully admitted he’s had a problem.

I’ve kicked him out and he’s living in his friend’s flat a couple of miles away. He visits the kids every day and we’re getting on great. He’s going to a sex addicts anonymous group once a week and he has a sponsor who he speaks to every day. He’s also seeing a private counsellor roughly every week, when she can fit him in, and he’s started a new job. He’s trying to put it right, he’s doing everything he can to relearn behaviours but can he truly change? Is it really possible?

I am full of resentment and anger at what he’s done but I suffer with a mental illness myself. I was diagnosed before we met and before this my behaviour was shameful. More men than hot dinners, drugs, drink, but with the right therapy and medication I completely changed and I’m a changed person now so I know I’ve changed and I’m stable. I just can’t help thinking that our family should have been enough for him to get help. Surely he should have known that his behaviour was disgusting and should have got help earlier. Are these labels he’s now got just a convenient excuse for what he’s done? Is he just a master manipulator? I’ve got so many questions I can’t answer. I’m having counselling myself and my counsellor has said to take things one day at a time. I’ve been signed off work since I found out the extra stuff but I’m going back tomorrow so the structure and routine will probably do me the world of good.

Sorry, I just needed to vent!

You aren't an idiot.

He did stupid, destructive, terrible things. He's put your through hell and I'm terribly sorry.

I agree with your counsellor, just go very slowly. Focus on you. Leave him to his own shit, give it a year or two and see how it feels after then.

My tuppence on the subject... You had your demons and you exorcised them before you had a family. Well done to you. This man is older, should be wiser, and had a family, and he's pissed it up the wall. He's not done nearly the good job you have. So leave him lots of rope, don't step in, don't save him, and don't trust him. Focus on you.

'I was diagnosed before we met and before this my behaviour was shameful. More men than hot dinners, drugs, drink, but with the right therapy and medication I completely changed and I’m a changed person now so I know I’ve changed and I’m stable.'

I suppose then you know that it's possible for people to change, but on the other hand you did all this before you had your current partner and children, whereas he was capable of doing this while he was married. His actual 'breakdown'/overdose was only once he was found out and was faced with the possible consequences of his actions.

Time will tell, I guess. It sounds like he has cleaned his act up a bit- you need to see him maintain that for a fair while before you consider being with him again, if you want that at all (and I definitely wouldn't blame you if you didn't.)

He has well and truly put me through hell. I guess what I’m needing to hear is if there’s any good in coming back from this. Is there any counselling good enough in the world that can heal us from this damage? And I suppose at the heart of it I’m wondering why weren’t we enough for him. And that hurts. He says it was down to his self loathing and he got into a cycle and didn’t know how to get out of it but that’s hard for me to grasp. Will I ever get over it? I just don’t know.

@Interestedwoman he seems to be cleaning up his act a fair bit but will it last? It’s the risk of being hurt again for me. My counsellor describes it as me taking a leap of faith and learning to trust him again. I can’t be constantly checking his phone bills and emails. He’s got rid of his social media and he’s deleted all numbers and contact details from his phone and emails from everyone other than close friends and work colleagues.

'My counsellor describes it as me taking a leap of faith and learning to trust him again.'

It would be- don't take that leap until you're ready and the 'ground' on the other side of the leap (him) looks like something solid you can trust, and has stayed looking that way for...IDK I suppose you could decide how long you feel it needs to be. xxx

Borderline personality disorder is not a mental illness though, it's a personality disorder.

Mental illness - they are mentally ill
Personality disorder - they are just themself.

No free passes there.

BPD is not curable. full stop. It cannot be treated with drugs, therapy, whatever. It is him and how his brain is wired. Yes, he can learn behaviours to overcome the worst impulses, but he cannot change who he is. He would have to be so motivated to do this (constantly every day) and he is unlikely to never slip.

Let him go, OP. You deserve better than this.

The overdose was a form of manipulation. As are the current efforts to prove he has 'changed'. He cannot change.

I think you have to give it time as others have said. Focus about yourself and you’ll know how you feel in time. Good luck

@BendyLikeBeckham BPD definitely can be treated, but it is difficult and requires the sufferer to accept they need the treatment and to stick with it. Very frequently they don't.

OP you asked "is he a master manipulator?" - I would agree BPD sufferers in my experience can be very manipulative indeed.

It's a hard road. I have been there with my exdw and I wouldn't do it again. So yes, think long and hard, and protect yourself.

No I’d say the relations over. And as others have said he can’t change his personality. He isn’t mentally ill. He’s just got a brain that’s unfortunately wired wrong.

It seems extremely unlikely he can change permanently/consistently, but even if he did. .. with what he's done to you; no, I would never get back.together with him.

It's too much and it's too extreme.

Oh yes, that old chestnut.

My X also claimed depression for his affair. And he was depressed it is true.

It was tartly pointed out by the [male] therapist that mental health does not cause the loss of morals.

you did all this before you had your current partner and children, whereas he was capable of doing this while he was married. His actual 'breakdown'/overdose was only once he was found out and was faced with the possible consequences of his actions.

This as well.

Were you betraying a serious partner (and family) when you did the above, siunds like not m.

@alvinp and @BendyLikeBeckham (if you have had experience of it)

• could you say a bit more about BPD? How does it manifest? What does it look like? What is it like to live with?

@ScreamingLadySutch there are plenty of online resources you can find to tell you about it.

It is hell to live with and people who have it very very rarely get diagnosed because they don't think there is anything wrong with them, so why on earth would they see a psychologist or psychiatrist for a diagnosis or treatment? That leads to their partner questioning what it is wrong about themself that makes the BPD person behave and treat them like that. It is often only when they have ended the relationship that the penny drops (with therapy) to explain the behaviour patterns of the partner. BPD people are very often abusers, though they don't accept that. It presents with sociopathic tendencies. Many serious criminals have BPD. I believe that it can manifest itself from childhood trauma, and that can be used as an excuse for bad conduct through the rest of their lives, and so they don't have to take responsibility for their actions.

So is there no hope for BPD sufferers holding down a relationship? He’s on a waiting list for dialectical behavioural therapy specifically for BPD, his counsellor he sees at the moment is primarily for the sex addiction. The doctor he saw in hospital spoke highly of the DBT approach but I don’t know anyone who has had this therapy before. I need him to sort himself out because even if there’s no future for us, he needs to be a father to our children still.

I have BPD, as well as it being my personality, it can also a form of mental health when the depression takes over. Or when the food side takes controls. The anxiety. The addictions.

It can be managed, although not necessarily long term. And for full treatment, I am sure it would have been mentioned by now to me.

What's it like to live with? A roller coaster for everyone. I don't know how I am going to be when I wake, or what I will be like an hour later, never mind 10 hours later.

I can be extremely manipulative. It took me a long time to realise that's what I was doing. Have I stopped? You would think so.

I have had various addictions over the years. Can I say for certain that I will never be addicted again? Don't be daft, no addict can give you that guarantee realistically because no-one knows what will happen tomorrow.

I have gone years without wanting to fuck constantly. And then suddenly, boom, I'm back there again.

The risks of return are high. Yes I have things in place to hopefully prevent me, but those methods don't always work. And this can then lead very quickly to destructive behaviour. It cannot always be avoided. The voices cannot always be avoided. The urge to feel something cannot always be avoided.

I cannot hold down a relationship. Even if he were ok with my infidelity, it also changes him and anyone else around. Usually as a result of the destructive behaviour, and by this I mean anything that harms the body. Or gives you an added excitement and the risks become greater, meeting guys around the Thames at night for a quickie was a favourite of mine, well still could be.

No your not an idiot. My diagnosis was by accident. I knew I wasn't like others, have known from an early age. I had developed strategies over the years well before I had a diagnosis. I never mentioned it to the gp because why should I? I know it's not right but it's me and I don't want to fit into societal 'norms'. We can be incredibly selfish and needy as well. On days that I felt great, I didn't see the need to change because to me everything was good, it was other people that had the problem. Why should I change for them?

When the any trust issues take over, we won't necessarily talk about ourselves and so often seem secretive, there's also a huge element of not wanting to talk about things because they are hard. Or I would tell myself I was ok to fuck some other guy because I had gotten it into my head he had done it before me. Which leads to the paranoia. Great fun when you really believe something is real. Or the opposite you're not entirely sure and question you sanity at 4am.

Even without depression impacting your sleep, the bdp can. I get hyper , can stay awake for 52 hours straight. I am out of control then, and often not sure what it real or isn't. Sleep for 2 hours, and repeat. This can last for a few weeks or a few months. My dc's would wake up in the morning and find downstairs changed where I have decided at 2 am to change the furniture and or paint. Or sleep can go the other way and I am constantly tired and can easily sleep 18 hours a day.

I could go on and on.

If there is a permanent cure to the above and more, please let me know. Because all I can do at the moment is try and stay in control which even with meds and strategies it isn't easy. And when everything balances out, it could all quickly become out of control. I wish I was more in control. I wish I could hold onto employment for several years. I wish I could keep a relationship. But I cannot, and as I get older the guilt from this can be extremely overpowering. The guilt from what I have done so far. Then everything spirals and I am back to square one.

So please link me to medical sites that state it is fully curable, and there is no mention of a risk of relapse once under control.

And this post is a great example of how we can easily make things about us, if we want to. Because I don't care about you (not saying this is the case now op. Sorry for hijacking a bit). So if I don't care about you, how can I expect anyone to care about me?

You aren't stupid op, you have been manipulated, lied to and betrayed by someone you had every reason to trust. But you would be absolutely mad to ever give this man another chance.

@ffswhatnext what an insightful and very brave post. I hope you manage to maintain control and take some pride and courage for every day that you manage to. I think you are so far above many BPD people because you recognise it, are seeking support, and you want to be a better person for those around you. Kudos.

@BendyLikeBeckham,

Thank you. However, that's only because that's how I felt at the time I posted.
Later I can quickly turn into fuck you I don't care and it would have reflected that. The dark side that I am sure others who know someone with bdp have experienced first hand.
Plus I have lived with this for around 30 years and had to do something otherwise honestly I would have died a long time ago. So it's not really about others but at the moment my existence.

At the moment I am not under support because I stopped engaging because of the I don't care attitude and there was an element that I am 'fixed' and don't need them. Same with when I suddenly stop the meds.

This could be my delusions at play, but I think out of the personality disorders this is one of the really bad ones. For starters it so misunderstood, and for me personally, it's like living with a lot of the crap bits of all the disorders. Not that there really are any fun bits in the disorders. Well, there isn't for you, but there's loads of fun in it for me. And not that some are worse than others.

@QueenBing don't think that what he did was aimed at you personally. Controlling the urges even with therapy can be incredibly hard. It's really hard to fully explain how we justify it, although his reasons will be his own. And even if you tells you, it may not be the truth. Just what he thinks you want to hear. Yea we do that, not because of you, because its easier for us. There is nothing more you could have done.

And yes sociopaths. I lie, a lot of time I don't care, it's just at moments of clarity I do, empathy can be incredibly hard but then I can also fake it and inside I am laughing. I can and do attack people verbally and if asked something I don't sugarcoat to protect feelings (I am working on this). Oh, I love revenge, I love to watch people suffer. I say absolutely shocking things just to get a reaction because it gives me amusement.

And the ability to hide our feelings and emotions plays a huge role in how we treat others. I can even say really nice things, but in my head, you don't want to know what I am thinking. And normally you would be totally unaware this is what I do, as I wouldn't tell you any of this if I knew you. Unless it somehow benefited me. Even contradictions pop along quickly depending on my frame of mind at the time, also because I over analyse everything. I must have about 100 arguments a day with myself trying to see all the different sides to try and decide what I am going to stick to and what can be used by me for the most gain.

Honestly, I could never see myself living with someone like me. Those that do, wow. You are amazing.

@ffswhatnext do you feel like there’s anything you want from a long term partner to make it a successful relationship? Would that even be possible? Is there anything you feel that’s deep rooted in you that you feel you need “fixing”? My husband reckons is a lack of love from his childhood and abandonment issues combined with abuse that’s left him with this self loathing and constant questioning as to why he was never good enough for his parents and extended family to love him. I do totally see that as his mother had significant mental health issues (she died 9 years ago) and she was in and out of psychiatric hospital all of his life. His dad is an alcoholic who left when he was 7 and was physically, verbally and emotionally abusive to the mother so he grew up in an unstable home. He also suffered sexual abuse when he was very young at the hands of some teenage boys and he’s only now getting help for all of this.

@QueenBing Please stop looking for excuses for his behaviour. None of his history or 'reasons' or diagnoses matter.

The ONLY thing that matters is how he makes you feel, how this relationship is for you (and DC). Is his behaviour acceptable to you? Can you relive the pain and trauma of the past few months over and over in the future? He will not change, he will do this again, you cannot trust his assurances because as much as he may mean them at the time, they will go out of the window when he is compelled to behave like that again.

Ask yourself, can you REALLY live this way for the rest of your life?

And to add, I guarantee that if you tell him it's over, then he will stop all treatment immediately. He is only doing this to achieve his objective (keep you) because you serve his needs. He feels no remorse save for having been found out. This is All About Him and it always will be.

Agree with @BendyLikeBeckham. It's all for show. Drop him. He won't change because he can't/doesn't want to.

Dear OP and also @ffswhatnext, I’m so sorry for the pain you both carry around.

I’m writing because I’m currently divorcing my husband who has BPD. His behavior almost drove me to suicide (not uncommon, sadly) and of course affected my children. For which I feel unending guilt. In some ways he was the love of my life, but also that is part of the BPD experience. I want to say that I spent months agonising and grieving over my decision, I consulted psychological and psychiatric professionals as a last ditch attempt to see if they believed it was ever possible to get him to at least some kind of functional, some of the time. They told me that it was highly unlikely he’d stick with any therapy given his behavior and that also the therapy rarely works adequately. What I can say is that less than a year after him leaving me and my kids are doing great, I feel so much better, calmer, in control of our lives, a peaceful home and a mind full of ideas and hope for the future. I’ve started dating again and am very able to spot any potential red flags early on. I’ve met so many kind men, where it hasn’t worked out, but still I’ve experienced what a non borderline man is like and it gives me hope for the future. He of course occasionally gets in touch although I had to block him from every channel at first, and every time he does it deletes momentarily my stability and I’ve learned he’s taken virtually no life lesson away from losing me. All the words come out but the actions show that he’s still as he was and would seek to blame everything that happened on just about anything else. Within seconds of speaking to him his controlling nature comes out and he is secretive and conceals stuff, lies compulsively and plays games relentlessly. Still. Even though he’s clearly involved with other women, but at the same time telling me he’s broken by our split.

So just to tell you: one, fight for your happiness right now, let him deal with his situation and consider not being a part of his future because from what I’ve witnessed sadly recovery to a level compatible with family life is sadly very rare and doesn’t come quick if it ever does. You deserve not to live in fear of being betrayed and have your health put at risk, your kids deserve better, and you can live a life that’s not about being a lifelong carer for your husband. Because that’s ultimately what it will be. If you want to PM me to talk more pls do. I’d love to be able to be there for someone who’s been through what I’ve experienced. There’s also a fantastic community called BPDlovedones on reddit. For the loved ones of those who have borderline personality. It helped me immensely in the agonizing early days of separating.