Am I an idiot? Infidelity due to mental illness?

[QueenBing]

I posted back in August (sorry, not sure how to link the thread, it was called Husband just told me he’s been having an affair). My husband drip fed he’d had an affair for 3 weeks, I forgave, after all we’d been together 13 years, married 11, 2 kids, a 3 week fling wasn’t going to ruin everything we had. However, something wasn’t sitting right so I went digging and then it came out a month later he’d seen a sex worker for oral sex, he’d seen a 50 year old for oral sex, he’d slept with his former head of department at school twice (I’ve since confronted her and she’s denied it and I’ve messaged her husband and he’s ignored me), he’s messaged a load of women on Kik and craigslist and some men as he’s even questioned his sexuality and all of this has been over a period of 18 months. The people he’s messaged he’s had no sexual contact with. The people he’s had sexual contact with he hasn’t used protection with so I marched us both to the clinic. Fortunately we are both ok.

When all of this other stuff came out, he ended up in a psychiatric hospital for a week following an overdose and he’s been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder with a subtype of impulsive behaviour and sex addiction. This stems from childhood and other behaviours too plus other mental health issues over a prolonged period that he’s never fully accepted help for as he’s never fully admitted he’s had a problem.

I’ve kicked him out and he’s living in his friend’s flat a couple of miles away. He visits the kids every day and we’re getting on great. He’s going to a sex addicts anonymous group once a week and he has a sponsor who he speaks to every day. He’s also seeing a private counsellor roughly every week, when she can fit him in, and he’s started a new job. He’s trying to put it right, he’s doing everything he can to relearn behaviours but can he truly change? Is it really possible?

I am full of resentment and anger at what he’s done but I suffer with a mental illness myself. I was diagnosed before we met and before this my behaviour was shameful. More men than hot dinners, drugs, drink, but with the right therapy and medication I completely changed and I’m a changed person now so I know I’ve changed and I’m stable. I just can’t help thinking that our family should have been enough for him to get help. Surely he should have known that his behaviour was disgusting and should have got help earlier. Are these labels he’s now got just a convenient excuse for what he’s done? Is he just a master manipulator? I’ve got so many questions I can’t answer. I’m having counselling myself and my counsellor has said to take things one day at a time. I’ve been signed off work since I found out the extra stuff but I’m going back tomorrow so the structure and routine will probably do me the world of good.

Sorry, I just needed to vent!

Bloody hell. I've been reading through your thread and it is difficult reading. I really wanted to reply but don't know if what I'm saying will be helpful or not. My Dad cheated on my Mum and was diagnosed with a mental illness at the point when he was found out by her. That period of our family life was absolutely horrific. For years I wished she had just ended the relationship as the pain of them patching up the loss of trust and essentially gloss over all that had happened was horrible to live with, but it was their lives and that was from my childlike perspective. Also, I don't obviously know how things would have looked had they separated. What I do know is that major emotional sacrifices were made in order for them to remain together and the legacy of that is still going strong years later.

I agree though, who is he in therapy for? Would he have addressed any of this stuff otherwise? You are not his therapist, you are not here to atone his wrongs, you can't save him. You saved yourself, you need to allow him a similar process. Otherwise the manipulation continues.

Thank you so much everyone. It’s just difficult to see the wood for the trees sometimes I suppose. I just wish I could wake up and all of this would go away but it’s not going to. I don’t deserve this, my kids don’t deserve this, I’ve worked hard for our family and our home and part of me is stubbornly wanting to keep it together but I know deep down I can’t. He’s openly said if I hadn’t uncovered everything I did, he wouldn’t have admitted he needed help. I suppose I was thinking because I manage my illness so well (i’m bipolar) and I can spot when I’m going up/down and I can get a grip before it gets out of control i was hoping he’d get to a point where he’d get the therapy and get to the same points where he’d recognise his triggers and not act out. Genuinely, I didn’t know the recovery from BPD was so difficult - from what I’m hearing here it sounds nigh on impossible. My friend at work has BPD but she has heightened anxiety and real anger issues which is difficult for her being a teacher, but she just about holds it together. She’s got a husband and 2 kids but obviously her behaviours are VERY different from my husband’s.

@Mumandsome78 thank you so much for sharing your story and I’d love to message you later on when I’ve got a bit more time to do it properly!

"The ONLY thing that matters is how he makes you feel, how this relationship is for you (and DC). Is his behaviour acceptable to you? Can you relive the pain and trauma of the past few months over and over in the future?"

THIS

What I would also say @QueenBing is that BPD is most usually expressed in its most acute form towards the ‘favourite person’ of the sufferer, so your colleague at work will not be so acute with casual acquaintances. So don’t go too much on her public behaviour. My ex is a nurse!!! Works in the caring professions! Obviously he has traits which manifest at work but it’s really mild and not noticeable to the untrained eye. That’s also a massive characteristic of the condition. And even harder for us as we end up thinking it’s us that is in the wrong!

@QueenBing
o you feel like there’s anything you want from a long term partner to make it a successful relationship?
Simply put. No

Would that even be possible?
A compatible person doesn't exist. No-one is going to accept the lies, the manipulation, the verbal abuse, gaslighting, the cheating, the addictions, erratic behaviours, irrational thoughts, self-harm, etc.
Could you honestly live with that? No.

Is there anything you feel that’s deep rooted in you that you feel you need “fixing”?
I don't want fixing. I like me. Others well tough shit, they can deal with or fuck off.

There is no reason. He does him, I do me because its what we want. Obviously there are times when everything is fine, and by this, I mean manageable, because there will always be something not fine. And during these moments we want what others have. In my case, I sought people out and had children. It wasn't the relationship I wanted, I wanted children. The exes were simply a way to get there. Yes my children have multiple dads.

Remember we are manipulative. I play with your emotions because I can and I enjoy it. Occasionally I would throw a partner a bone, and let them think I was bothered. Was I fuck. Think about that for a moment,
I enjoy abusing you.

If I 'see' quickly enough I am doing something I can implement a number of things to avoid. But only because I want to.

In a relationship, I will promise the world if things start to go wrong. It's not for you, it because at that moment you give me something. And actually it's up to me when we split.

Therapy, once it's served the purpose of what I want, then bye-bye. In the past, this has been for a relationship because I hadn't decided it was time for things to end.
This year it was was a specific thing that happened this year, and once they did what they could for that, I stopped. Mh are never happy, but that's not my problem.

Do you really want this for yourself? Of course, I am not saying everyone with bdp is the same, we aren't. We are all unique. Only you know how things are.
You have two options
1 - Stay with him. And know things will never change. It's not you its him.

1. Accept this is who he is, and leave him.

Regardless of which way you go. Nothing you did or didn't do could have changed a thing.

I know me posting this will be difficult because I have openly admitted I lie and manipulate. You will be questioning what I am writing. Of course. I could have left those two out and you would be none the wiser.
I mentioned them to give you, and others a clear insight into how bad things can be, and there's a whole lot of behaviour I have left out. Consider what I am saying and really listen to what the others are saying.

Putting aside the pd for a moment - If he can be selfish and think only about himself, then what's stopping you?
If he didn't have this would you be there?
Forget he has this. We can be in control and I think that's where the belief of a cure comes from. But the control doesn't last because its exhausting lying to yourself.

With bpd you can only ever change or manage what your responses are to life events when your emotions are triggered. What you can’t do is foresee how your head only sees one side that it lies to you. Bod is the wurst to find unconditional love. Your always testing people pushing abusing asking for proof they care

@QueenBing
THat's the thing. You colleague is holding it together for those hours because she can. It's exhausting though.
I've had jobs over the years and people have picked up on things. There's only so much I can hide.
Within months, comments are made saying I am mad. No-one can put their finger on exactly what it is. And of course, I love watching them squirm trying to explain themselves.

But once alone, even in the staff toilets for a couple of minutes. I am me and the mask you see is gone. People see the me I want them to see.

Firstly, I am so sorry. I have BPD and I know how damaging it can be to the people who you are closest to. It has ruined relationships for me. I cheated on my partner of 4 years twice. I overdosed after my first relationship ended when I was 15 to get him to stay with me. This was a repeating pattern for years. I have seen multiple people at once and have hurt people and manipulated people and have lied. I have also been in loving relationships and have treated people like they were only one in the world. Cheating is not always present with BPD but it is certainly a way to act out the darkest symptoms of the disorder.

However, mental illness is an explanation and NEVER an excuse. BPD is SO complicated, I cannot do it justice in a reply.

I have been in therapy for over 10 years and I have a long way to go, but I am a different person to who I was when I was at my worse and acting out similar to your husband. It takes years though. I am in no way excusing his behaviour, but with understanding comes compassion. He may never change and I just consider myself lucky to have started the process early. But he may and he deserves the chance to change and implement what he has learnt in therapy into his daily life. You really can relearn behaviours if you put the effort in and want to get better.

By no means stay with him if you don't want to and do not let him back into your life until you are ready - which may be never. But if you want to and can, work with him and take one day at a time. Time will tell if you want him in your life and if has changed and if you can forgive him. If you do and can thats okay and if not, thats also fine and more than understandable.

Look after yourself, talk to people and research what its all about if you need support and if you want to. Don't feel like you have to get involved though.

Sending you loads of hugs.

@PeriChicken340 If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of therapy have you had? He’s been recommended DBT and today the GP has put him back on sertraline which I know isn’t to medicate the BPD specifically but he’s experiencing low mood with it. I’m taking each day as it comes and I’m trying to support as much as I can for our children as much as anything else. I can’t have them growing up with this fuck up for a father. He has got to get his act together, there is no other option if he wants any kind of relationship with our children. I can’t allow them to be hurt by him so he has got to get help, he has got to change and he has got to relearn his behaviours. He says he wants to, his words count for nothing with me, I need to see his actions, but I’m coming to terms with the fact that this will take a very long time.

Essentially op youve been told that they are lions - and lions are not gazelles. Therapy cannot turn them into gazelles. It may teach them how to better imitate gazelles but only when they feel like it. And likely, not to anyones advantage but their own. Infact, it could be counter productive for everyone else as now the lion is also gaining cammoflage.

I have BPD traits or BPD. I like to think I'm not particularly a liar or manipulative. People with it are all very different though, of course.

'With bpd you can only ever change or manage what your responses are to life events when your emotions are triggered. What you can’t do is foresee how your head only sees one side that it lies to you.'

You can. One of the goals of therapy is to try and see a situation more objectively. 'What is the evidence for this?' 'What is the evidence for the opposite?'

BPD is the only personality disorder where there's some evidence that it can be 'cured', to the extent that the sufferer no longer meets the criteria.

I suppose not only does a person have BPD but they also have their own personality/way of approaching life and treatment. I have bipolar too, and as with the BPD, I always get virtually all the help I can because I acknowledge I need the help, and want to be well. Not everyone is like that to the same extent. I wouldn't have much tolerance for someone who didn't make an effort to seek help.

Best wishes and look after yourself xxx

'The doctor he saw in hospital spoke highly of the DBT approach but I don’t know anyone who has had this therapy before.'

DBT is the therapy with the most evidence for Borderline. I didn't personally get on with the part of it I tried (mainly mindfulness) but another part is about improving relationships with others, and I'm interested to try more of that.

Personally I got better results from EMDR than the mindfulness part of DBT. Borderline always results from trauma. EMDR targets and reduces the effects of the trauma. Would recommend he tries it.

My friend has been referred forDBT numerous times. She usually decides after a couple of appointments that she’s cured and walks out, or makes unimaginable excuses not to attend. She doesn’t really want to get better. She’s been arrested a few times and her ex has a protection order in place. Her dd moved out at 15 as she couldn’t live with the rollercoaster any more. She’s low to no contact now and my friend doesn’t have her address (they speak by phone or text periodically.)
On one occasion, her therapist told me that she was extremely dangerous (as ffs says, she can be telling you one thing and be very plausible, but her thoughts and intent may be very different) and that I should call the police immediately if she turned up on my doorstep.
I’m not afraid of her. But my children know not to be alone with her or to accept a ride from her. I won’t ride with her. I have absolutely no doubt that at any point she could decide that she wanted to get back at everyone for perceived wrongs and take me or one of my kids out with her.
Whenever she is back in town my stress levels rise a thousand percent.

I found DBT extremely irritating most weeks. The group ones the worse as you have to listen to other whinging about irrelevant stuff. There was stuff that was glanced over because they weren't as important. I used to hit the pub afterwards to cope.

Improving relationships was considering the other person more in a nutshell. As well as looking at why we take risks with people.
There was also an element of others wanting me to change so that I conform more to 'societal norms'. To think more about how things are phrased, in an if you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything way.

The benefit I got was that I started to understand me, and once I understood more I was able to pinpoint when it started back in my teens. It was also when I realised I manipulate, I didn't see it for what it was. When scenarios were given, it was clear I was and always have been.
Lying, well everyone does it to some degree.

Tabitha, mine have been told the same in regards to protecting their own safety from me. They've always done so anyway. Sometimes I cannot hide those thoughts, I give a look. It really gives people the shits. It was after a look, that it was suggested by my shrink. He and a psych nurse really thought in that split second I would leap over the table and attack them. And in that split second, I could have easily done so.
I don't know what blocked me. I never do. At times that darkness scares the shit out of me, not just pleasure.

I like the gazelle analogy.

' I have absolutely no doubt that at any point she could decide that she wanted to get back at everyone for perceived wrongs and take me or one of my kids out with her.'

To be fair, this doesn't apply to all/most people with Borderline, though. Some of them are like that, but 'just' self-harm is more common.

'I found DBT extremely irritating most weeks...I used to hit the pub afterwards to cope.'

LOL! Glad you got something out of it in the end.

@PeriChicken340 Your desire to be given a second chance is influencing your advice. It does not mean the OP's DH should. You say "he deserves the chance". No, he does not deserve anything and the OP does not owe him this. He has hurt and betrayed her badly and repeatedly. That is enough for her to take protective steps and end the relationship. Because there is a 99% probability he will do it again, and that his therapy is just him learning to mask his real self and "manage" relationships. He will still lie and manipulate to provide for his needs, because that is how he is wired. The OP is just a means to an end. He does not truly love her in an unconditional unselfish way where he wants her to be happy and will do all he can to make that happen. He wants to make himself happy, and he is happier with her than without her, so he will take steps to keep her because it serves his needs.

So much more hurt is in the future for you OP if you stay with him. Not just for you but for your DC. Don't make the mistake of thinking a 2 parent nuclear family is best, when 1 of those parents is like your DH. You want to keep your family together? YOU and your DC are your family. Just you and them, managing fine with no stress or angst, no tiptoing around his feelings, no putting up with his mood swings, no accommodating his needs all the time, no wondering who he is shagging this time, no constant analysing of the relationship/his therapy.

Please set yourself free. You cannot fix him. You cannot fix your relationship. Neither can he.