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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why do good men go bad?

29 replies

BolloxtoGender · 26/10/2019 23:18

‘I don’t think you can ever see what a decent guy pre kids will be like after kids.‘

Just saw this on another post and other posters agrees, as if it is normal or happens a lot.

Why is that ? How does the switch just flip? Is it subconscious? Is it something they suppress until that point? I didn’t think it was common or a Thing, but clearly it is. Trying to understand why.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 26/10/2019 23:21

Under stressful situations, people’s natural tendencies that they can usually keep in check come out.

Children often bring tiredness, financial strain and worry. The worst of people can come to the surface.

MrGsFancyNewVagina · 26/10/2019 23:23

In some cases the man’s personality has always been suppressed, but once the woman is pregnant, the man’s abuse will start. They know there’s less chance of the woman leaving once she’s had a child.

Asschercut · 26/10/2019 23:43

I don't know why, jealousy, lack of attention, not being number one? It is common, I was married for 5 years and after IVF and a positive pregnancy test, his personality changed 100% over night. For a long time I could not understand how I could have predicted this. Now, after years of therapy I do have some hindsight. He is a narcissist, I was bowled over by the Prince Charming act, easy to perform this when there is no pressure and your wife is 100% devoted to attending your every need. A baby totally changes that and now I would see the charm for what it was, just a front. I got the best thing from it, the most wonderful daughter. after learning how to 'grey rock' him, he is irrelevant. I went on to chose better. 😊

firstoffence · 27/10/2019 00:00

Both men and women change as they age and as life events happen. This applies to the death of a parent, having children realising you are not living your dream life etc

BolloxtoGender · 27/10/2019 10:41

Yes all makes sense, but it does seem to be the man who flips afters after children, a specific thing, rather than character development over the long term.

I guess what i’m Getting to is would a woman have married him if she d known or suspected what he’d be like after children? And how can you tell?

OP posts:
IdiotInDisguise · 27/10/2019 10:49

it does seem to be the man who flips afters after children, a specific thing, rather than character development over the long term.

I suppose it is because we women are hormonally programmed to stick to the side of the child regardless of whatever happens.

Men can take longer to develop such strong bond

funnylittlefloozie · 27/10/2019 10:50

My exH was always a dickhead, but our relationship was a combination of me shutting my eyes to it, and always pandering to him. Once DD was born, and she needed attention, he couldnt cope with the fact that he was no longer the most important person in the house, and that DD's needs had to come first. He had a number of affairs, online and IRL (i only found out later) and our relationship dwindled to nothing.

orangeteal · 27/10/2019 10:51

I'm not sure I believe all these men "change" I think a lot of them were quite shit to start with but pre kids some women have more tolerant of it and let themselves be blind to it, or worse, think a child will change them for the good.

orangeteal · 27/10/2019 10:52

*tolerance

milliefiori · 27/10/2019 10:52

Many, many men are fine in a relationship because they are the woman's No1 priority. As soon as children arrive, they are demoted and inflated egos can't bear that so they look for another woman to pay them undivided attention and start a hate campaign against the partner who has dared to prioritse the child. This is why so many marriages break up when DC2 is a toddler. DC1 is a statsu symbol of male fertility. DC2 is just yet another imposter stealing the woman's attention away from its rightful place: the man.

Aquamarine1029 · 27/10/2019 10:55

Good men don't go bad. Bad men were always bad, and the red flags were waving from the start but their partner chose to ignore them.

IdiotInDisguise · 27/10/2019 10:56

... women change too, you go from being the lovely caring “girlfriend” /companion/team mate to the overtired wreck of a woman who has no time or energy to be supporting a husband or getting pretty for him between 3 hourly feeds and no sleep.

Stephen Biddulph defines that time as “the long night of the penis” where men had to take a step back to allow for the woman to concentrate mostly on the needs of the child rather than the husband’s for a year or so. Sadly, it is not unusual for the relationship to change or fully cool down after a year of “ignoring” each other.

Apparently, if you survive this period, you are out of the woods.

IdiotInDisguise · 27/10/2019 10:58

... sadly some relationships get so damaged at that time, they end up spiralling down and ending.

CarolDanvers · 27/10/2019 11:03

I think the fact that it's socially acceptable for men to abandon their kids and leave them to be raised by their mother plays a big part. Men are often conditioned to see themselves as doing the woman a big fat favour if they stick around to help raise the child. Some don't bother but others do and resent it and act accordingly. Then add in that all their resources must go into supporting the mother and their child and that's a whole big ball of anger and resentment especially if the woman isn't "grateful" enough. Not to mention the fact that domestic work and childcare is often very dull so why should charismatic handsome young bucks like themselves have to be involved in that?!

I think most men don't want to get married either but society expects it so they do it but forever subconsciously believe themselves to be trapped and their potential curtailed by a women and children they believe they never really wanted but were pressured into having.

All rather pathetic really Hmm

RLEOM · 27/10/2019 12:35

Some people are good at lying, my ex being one of them. "I don't lie," "I'd never cheat," "I'd never be an absent dad like mine," "She's just a friend and always will be."

He was a compulsive liar, cheated at the start of the relationship and within weeks of us having a newborn with the person who was just a friend, and now he's an absent dad who has used all of his holiday on his friend-now-girlfriend and he even didn't turn up when our baby was rushed to hospital when she couldn't breathe, even though he's only a 30 minute drive away.

People will pretend to be what you want them to be, what they hope they can be, just to keep you sweet. Obviously not everyone is like that but falling for lies, believing that because he had an absent dad who cheated on his mum and broke his family and seeing how passionate he was about it, really made me believe he'd want to do better. He didn't, he just repeated history, hurting people who loved him the most.

My friend had a similar problem. She was with a man who was adopted, vowed to never abandon his child... they split up, he moved abroad and never bothered contacting his child again. No letters, no emails, calls or visits, yet would tell everyone abroad how much he loved his son. The funeral was certainly awkward! All his friends telling my friends son how much his dad adored him...

Sorry, this post has opened up my own can of worms!

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 27/10/2019 13:00

Good men don't go bad. Bad men were always bad, and the red flags were waving from the start but their partner chose to ignore them.

And I think a lot of women feel driven to "rescue" men they perceive as troubled when in fact the man is selfish and very immature. I did that in my youth, though I didn't marry one.

DH was a good man and I loved him even more when I saw what a devoted DF he was to our DC and how loving he was to me as an exhausted new mum. I already knew he was a good DF as he had a DD when we met.

Good men don't just turn. It's that the stress of parenthood reveals their true nature.

BertrandRussell · 27/10/2019 13:03

They don’t. People do my change much. There are always clues.

Ostanovka · 27/10/2019 13:04

milliefiori put it really well.

BlameItOnTheVodka · 27/10/2019 13:19

@RLEOM wow do we have the same ex looool but seriously i completely understand as what you've said basically mirrors my ex

Angrybird123 · 27/10/2019 16:51

I dont think there are always clues or red flags.. To say that turns the blame back on the woman for choosing wrong. Some have been with their husbands for decades, in a standard, rubbing along together marriage, then a MLC hits and boom. How often on here do you read that 'hes like a stranger'.? Its the complete 180 personality change that blindsides the abandoned spouse.

Pastryapronsucks · 28/10/2019 10:48

I had a 5 year old when I met my partner, he was a great step dad, we were a great team. After 13 years we had our first child together, again magical and wonderful. When I got pregnant with 3rd and final child (after 16 years of good relationship) I was poorly and found it hard, I guess working fu time and having a toddler did not help.

When youngest was born he was an unsettled baby, he would not sleep or be put down. I was BF and he refused to take a bottle so all on me.

It affected our relationship, in particular sex, I just lost my mojo completely. We regularly talked about it and how it made us feel, but the upshot was, he couldn't cope with not feeling 'wanted and special', because only sex does that🤨.

He ended up having a ONS and then an attempted ONS. He then couldn't cope with the guilt if being a bad partner and told me blowing our lives apart.

We are still together, he had tried very hard to make amends, but the relationdrelationshiphip will never be the same.

So in my opinion having children can affected even good guys, insecurity and fragile egos are not far below the surface, particularly when times get tough. I think women feel the same way but are just more resilient.

Lillygolightly · 28/10/2019 12:11

I think there are sometimes cues that we miss because before children a relationship is more easily equal. Both work, you cook, I’ll wash up, you do the laundry and I’ll iron etc. It’s also easier to be much more forgiving at any inequality at this stage because it’s so much easier to rationalise or even out in other ways.

You can be the very imagine of female empowerment with a great job, financial independence and a great partner who pulls his weight with the chores.

Then bam you have a baby and all of a sudden your on maternity leave with this tiny baby to look after, your leaking, tired, hormonal and all the rest of it, all of which your partner can be sympathetic about but never experience or truly appreciate for himself. All of sudden the weight your partner used to pull around the house goes out the window because you don’t go to work and he does, your at home surely you have the time? Then there is baby who more often than not just wants mummy for BF or comfort, and dad/partner doesn’t have the patience to learn to settle baby and before you know it that becomes 100 percent your responsibility too. Maybe dad/partner feels pushed out, you don’t have the time or affection for him you used to (well because your looking after a house, a baby, trying to look after yourself, your knackered and he doesn’t help like you expected) you resent that he gets the freedom of going out to work, and his life hasn’t hardly changed. He resents that you get to stay at home, and thinks that his life has changed massively, his partner is tied all the time, isn’t up for sex, and this whole baby thing isn’t what he imagined either.

It’s so easy to end up hating each other during this period no matter how great your relationship was before. I don’t think there is much you can do to prepare your relationship for a baby, aside from talk through the responsibilities and practicalities of having one. Even then you’ve no idea what kind of baby your going to get, one that’s fuss free and sleeps through the night, or one with colic that doesn’t sleep for longer than 20 mins at a time. Regardless of what was discussed or agreed on before can go out the window in the name of basic survival and sharing the of night feeds/nappies/settling is soon forgotten because you end up taking the path of least resistance and your just trying to get through.

It’s very true that having a baby is tantamount to setting off a bomb in your life/relationship. As women are hormones push us to care, love and bond with our offspring, men while they do love and care for their offspring don’t feel the same drive that we as women do making it much harder for them to self sacrifice they way a woman/mother does. I think this along with drastic changing of roles is why so many couples split during this period of early parenthood. It’s hard, society and expectations have changed and in years gone by a man would have be shamed for leaving his family and divorce was very much frowned upon. Nowadays no one really bats an eyelid at a man leaving and moving on to pastures new. It’s much easier to leave and start again when things get tough. I’m not saying it’s good or bad, but it’s a fact.

In short, you can pick the nicest most reliable guy, who treats you like you deserve to be treated. None of it guarantees he will be a great father, or indeed that he will stick around, or that you will even want him too.

If only we all had crystal balls eh!

Zaphodsotherhead · 28/10/2019 12:20

I don't think the kids' dad 'changed' so much as behaviours I could put up with or deal with before I had them, became insupportable when there were children in the mix.

When he used to sulk and ignore me if I 'transgressed' (for which read, talked back to him, cotradicted him or told him off for being a prat), it was fine when it was just the two of us.. I could ignore the behaviour, carry on being bright and breezy and he could see it didn't affect me, so he stopped. But when he started doing it to our eldest, who was nearly seven and starting to get to the arsey, 'backchatting' stage...well, that was it.

crankyassnoperope · 28/10/2019 14:07

Good men don't go bad. Bad men were always bad, and the red flags were waving from the start but their partner chose to ignore them.

Sorry, that's bull. Total bull. Are you like this every time you meet a woman who's been fucked over, like, "daaaarling, you must have ignored so many red flags, I would never have been such a fool - I have self respect dontcha know". You're in for a mighty big fall sweetheart, you really are. Life changes people, some of life's changes you can be alert to, some you can see coming, but some are just chance - and they change people in ways

crankyassnoperope · 28/10/2019 14:08

...whoops... changes people in ways that are completely unpredictable. Big life events - birth, infertility, grief (particularly grief) - are bigger than one woman's red flag spotting instincts. Wake up.