I want to do the right thing - but what is the right thing for dc? Stay or leave?

[chocyholic]

My first post here, so it might have been done to death, but I just don't know where to turn.
I don?t feel that I have anything to complain about at all really, now. DH doesn?t hit me or be unkind or anything.
He has been very unfair to DS. From when he was first born, DH seemed to take against him. Nothing he could do was right. There was never any physical violence, just verbal. DH would tell him to do something, and when he didn?t do it quick enough DH would lose his temper and scream in his face, then flounce off in a temper. Then I would have to put everything right, and comfort a screaming terrified toddler. And this continued until the last year or two, I don?t think it?s as bad now, although it still happens.
After always struggling with depression, four years ago DH was made redundant and had a breakdown. He completely stopped ?connecting? with friends, family everyone, especially us. He still worked throughout, which I am still amazed at, but at home was either ?switched off? or in rages about everything.

It was gradual, then, really. As he did less and less to connect with the household, I did more and more, and we became more separate in everything. Now I can?t think of anything to say to him. I feel like I don?t know him, and I don?t like him.
He seems to have suddenly woken up and realised that things are bad, and now he?s really making an effort. I?ve told him that I wanted him to take more responsibility for household things, and he has started doing most of the cooking and other jobs, if I tell him to. But that?s not really what I meant. I want him to decide things, pay bills, important stuff. I want him not to ask me what jobs need doing. He can see dirt as well as I can. I feel like his supervisor. Or his mum. And anyway, it?s all years too late for me.
Am I being unfair? He says I have really let him down because I won?t forgive him for the things he did when he was depressed. But it goes back much further than that.

The thing is, what now? I really want to leave, but the one thing I always promised myself is that I?d provide a stable home life for DD (17) and DS (12). And I?ve let everyone down by getting it wrong. And then deciding to leave for my own selfish reasons.
Sorry this has ended up so long. I just don?t know what to do. I want the best for the kids, but what is the best? He can?t understand why I?m being so nasty to him by ignoring him. He doesn?t see what he has done wrong at all. Whenever I've got upset about anything, he says I'm being oversensitive and makes me feel that it's all my fault. He is away this week, and the family is so much happier, we laugh and have a good time, which we don't if DH is here. But separating will upset the DC, won't it?
Oh dear....I'm just going round in circles.

Do you want to make it work - or have you already come to a decision?

Either way, counselling/Relate/Marriage Guidance might help.

Even if you decide that the rgiht decision is to split, then the counselling can help you come to terms with that.

It might be worth going with your dh, so that you can both understadn what has happened to your relationship and if it is worth working on it.

Hi there

If you dont want to be there then leave, the childrens life will be more unstable if their parents arent happy. Going by what you said he did to DS its not really a happy place anyway no child should ever be terrified of their parents.

My mum and dad split up when I was 12 and I can honestly say everyone is much happier for it.

as for you being unfair, you have put up with it for years and years by the sounds of things, that is by no means unfair.
But it is your decision. good luck and let us know how you get on.

J x

PS welcome to mumsnet

Depends what you mean by work, really. I can't see how it can ever be a loving intimate relationship again. We haven't had s*x for 4 years and we have both changed so much. He is really negative about everything and everyone, and will find a thousand reasons not to do something. He has alienated himself from all his friends and family, and mine, too.

I have got a lot more confidence, got a responsible job, and am an optimist.

If making it work means managing to share a house without actually killing each other, yes, it could be made to work, that's what we have been doing for the last 4 years.

so yes, I have made my decision that I would like to leave, that I don't want to live with him any more. Which would be fine if it was just me and him. But it's not just my decision to make, though, is it?

i think your answer is in the next to last line in your post. you are probably more at ease when he isn't there. and then the kids are more at ease. the tension is lifted when he isn't there.

yes. separating will upset your children.
but, it will affect them more and distort their view of marriage and relationships if you stay where you are clearly unhappy, uncherished and un-cared for.

he doesn't hit you, ok. but by some of the stuff you've said he has been clearly unkind to you.

you did not get it wrong. while in most relationships breakdowns both parties can be to blame (save for abusive ones of course), you cannot blame yourself.

how is it selfish that you want to leave?
is it SELFISH that you want to thrive, be happy, be content, be loved again eventually? to be yourself again? that is in NO way selfish. and please please please don't let him or anyone else tell you so.

i empathise more than i can say with your post as my own marriage has broken down but i ache and ache when i read what others are going thru...

your children are old enough to understand and know things aren't right. and you can explain to them about what ever decision you make (there is bound to be loads of support out there for dealing with these sorts of situations.)

if you want to save it, counselling may be one of your only hopes as it doesn't seem your husband wants to work on it on his own.

whatever happens, stay strong. keep MN'tting x

Welcome to MNet.

I am sorry that you are in this bad place. I really suggest you try as hard as you can for one last time to fix it before you give up. Try Relate, for both of you, its worth it. But ultimately you need to do what is best for you and your children. I believe in marriage but when children are being tormented or put under stress sometimes the risk is work taking so that they can be happier.

Maybe you need to sit down and speak to him away from home and put down all your thougths not as criticism but to show that you really want to sort things out. Give it a shot and then cut your losses and run if it doesn't work, good luck and be strong.

I used to be frightened of him, he used to say that he got a red haze, he called it, when he lost his temper, he couldnt control it. He used to fly off the handle at anything. No physical violence to me or DC, although he's tried to kill every pet I've ever had.I've got used to managing this, but it really frightened me. He says I'm over sensitive.
Until about 3 years ago, when he lost his temper at our then 6 month old puppy and started punching her with all his weight. He didn't stop until a neighbour pulled him off and threatened to report him to the rspca. I wasn't there, but DC were, and they were very distressed.

anyway, when i heard about it, i suddenly realised. He can;t have no control over it, he would get beaten up every time he went outside the door, and i've never known him get into a fight in 20 years. So he only loses it with puppies, cats, small boys and women who are afraid of him....
well, there was no going back from there, really. Any respect I'd ever had for him just died. And funny enough, that's exactly when his temper tantrums ended. When I was no longer afraid of him.

I feel really unfair bringing this up, he says I keep harping back to old things that don't happen now. But I can't forget it. I just don't like him as a person any more.

sorry to be harsh

but imo he is a coward, he will only be violent towards someone alot smaller than him??

Sounds like my ex, very controling and very violent attitude but was a total wimp when it came to anything, I got out and its the best move I ever made, it never affected my 5 yr old and we are much happier now.

You seem to me like you have made you decision to leave, your children are old enough to understand as the pp said.

My dad left when I was 12, it wasnt so bad, as fickle as it was we focused on the positives, 2 lots of christmas and birthday presents etc, my mum and dad made sure we knew they both loved us the same. We are all fine, still in touch with both mum and dad and they have both remarried now and are happy. We could sense they wasnt happy when they was together.

A stable environment does not necessarilly mean 2 parents, especially when they don't actually like each other. My mother hated my father, separated when I was 4, got back together again "for me" and divorced when I was 18. My mother has now had the happiest 20 years of her life and has re-married.

My childhood would have been immeasurably better had it not been blighted by their daily rows and the atmosphere which pervaded the house.

I would also say that my relationship with my father has improved.

Of course your siutation is not the same as mine, they are all different. The only point I am making is that a home may be more stable with one loving parent than 2 grouchy ones.

julezboo - I am actually afraid of going to relate and trying to give it one last go, in case he persuades me to stay - isn;t that silly? I;ve finally managed to get a job that;s well paying enough for me to leave, and the I've now got the support of some friends at work when I finally do leave. I;ve been wanting to leave for years, but always thought of reasons not to, DS going to secondary school, DD GCSEs etc.

He makes me lose all confidence in my own opinions and I end up thinking its all my fault after all. I remember things that I know have happened, but he says they didn't, or he doesnt remember it, so I'm always doubting myself. And he will say that the things i am upset about are not important and i am making a fuss about nothing. He thinks that he is a good father. Well, he has always provided for us, thats true, and we live in a nice house in a good area. But i think there;s more to it than that.

Sounds frighteningly like my ex (yay, it still feels great saying my ex!). So much of what you describe sounds like him; when our lab was a puppy, he had a thing about showing her who the 'alpha male' was in the house, and said she wouldn't learn her place until she was punched so hard it knocked her off her feet. And one day he did. He punched her in the head and sent her flying. She spent all day, and I mean ALL day, trembling in the corner of the room, and I had to sit with her the whole time to make sure she was ok. She never really recovered and even now won't go near men. She's very timid. He would bully my children (his step children) particularly my son who is now 10. His was all verbal and emotional too. he too blamed depression, but he refused to take the anti depressants prescribed for him. I had enough. I knew I couldn't live my life with him, and he wouldn't change. I knew I didn't want the children thinking it was normal to be in an abusive relationship. I filed for divorce a couple of months ago and he wouldn't leave; the emotional abuse continued so I took him to court 2 weeks ago and got an injunction. I can honestly say that life is 100% better. Yes, I worry about money, and yes it's lonely sometimes, but not nearly as lonely as my marriage was. We too hadn't had sex for nearly 4 years. I am 40 next year, and the thought of reaching that milestone in this relationship filled me with such panic that I knew it was over.

Chocyholic...it's all mind games, designed to make you doubt yourself. Be strong and believe in yourself and what you want for yourself and for your kids. If you decide to leave, then know it will be hard, but it will only be hard for a relatively short time, compared to a lifetime of misery.

sorry, I was replying to prettybird, not julezboo!

Chocyholic - please if you are so unhappy do whats right for you, Your DD's GSCE's are over? Your DS is going into year 8 come sept they will be fine I promise you!

I know what you mean about him persuading you to stay, my ex moved me away from my family, then barred my mum from coming to the house, looking back now he was a total shit and I dont know why I put up with it for so long!! I wont ever let anyone get me that low again. My confidence was shot to pieces I was a nervous wreck, everytime the door went i fell to pieces, no one should live like that.

You seem to have a good support system set up, do you have to find somewhere to live? It will be hard at first but you will feel more happier in the long run

thank you everyone. Its a good job everyones out today, I;m sitting at the computer in floods of tears with the relief of letting it out. I;ve had to be strong and keep it all going for so long.

Julezboo - yes, I will have to move, I can't afford to keep this house on. I;m a bit worried about that, as I can only afford an ex council house in a roughish area. Not worried for me or DD - DD is very confident and sensible, and she will enjoy living in a town, but DS has been bullied in his previous school(due, I think, to the bullying by DH at home), and I;m worried he;ll be picked on there, as we live in a posy posh village now.

Oh (((((chocy)))))) Let them all come out, theres nothing wrong with tears

I wish you the very best, I do hope your DS wont be bullied xxx

thanks, everyone. Do i start a new thread if I want to offload again or give updates? Or do I continue this one? New to MN

Oh god sounds like my ex too. The undermining, the anger, telling me we couldn't split up because he would not be able to find anywhere to live Plus him witholding sex and affection for a long time.

And on more than a few occasions I jumped in between him and DS1 now 10 because I thought H was overstepping the mark in manhandling him. DS1 is a very angry short tempered child and I can't work out whether its inherited or learnt behaviour from what he has seen

Anyway last year we split, divorced in Feb and I am 100% happier despite the upheaval and uncertainty. No more lonely than when married. People say I look like my old self.

Ex has new partner (poor her I am sure she is a lovely woman) and I am seeing someone too.

Life's too short imo and I am trying hard not to regret the years I did spend with him trying to fix someone/thing that could not or would not be fixed!!

which ever you want I will check this thread anyway x good luck x

I don't know what the right thing to do is and I don't usually advocate leaving, but I just wanted to you to know that it won't necessarily make the DC unhappy if you get divorced.

My mum told me she was going to get a divorce from my dad when I was 16. I was initially upset at the shock (probably of the actual "divorce" word). I was there when she told my brother (14 at the time). She said "How do you feel about us getting divorced". He replied quite seriously "It would be good". Basically after my dad left, we had a good time without him. He treated my brothers very badly and they didn't like living with him for this reason. The house was free of a tyrant.

Obviously there are plenty of other difficulties involved in divorce, but your DC may not suffer as much as you think if DH has been treating you all like shit. Your DC are old enough to understand that it is not their fault. That's just my experience though!

I feel for you, chocyholic, and I would agree that it is much worse for kids to continue living in an unhappy home than it would be for them to suffer the temporary trauma of a breakup. From what you say, this relationship was finished a long time ago, and when parents are cold towards each other, kids sense it quickly, and it affects them a lot. It can't be called a stable environment, even if there's no violence, and the sooner you bring it to an end, the better. The one thing I'm worried about is custody. What's the score there?

Crokky
I think you;re right, DS will be better off without him. I;m not so sure about DD. She has always just disappeared into her room at the first sign of trouble, so I don;t know how she;ll react at all. A worrying thing, though, she has started to pick on her brother recently, like DH, and accuse him of being spoilt. DS only behaves badly when DH is around, as he feels badly treated. But I have always tried to keep everything going, so I don;t think DD is aware of the bullying. DD doesn;t ever take DHs side, but has started to be unpleasant to DS. I feel like the family is split in two.

Although the last couple of months hasn;t been as bad, DH has mostly kept his temper under control, although he says it is awful for him, that I am watching and waiting for him to get it wrong. I;m sure he;s right, I am. It;s the fact that we are completely separate - he says he feels like the invisible man, that me & DC have a completely separate existence that he has no part in. He just eats and sleeps here. I agreed, and said, whose fault is that? He doesn;t join in with the family at all, and has alienated everyone now.

I;ve just noticed something weird - the puppy that he thumped, now 4, well she has always (since then) been a really bad dog, runs away, doesn;t like petting, manic barking, etc. Well DH has been away for 4 days, and she is an angel!

RNF - DH definitely won;t want custody of DS. DD is 17, so I think it;s really up to her. I;m very worried about that. DH will have to move to the nearest city, which is where DDs college is. She might live choose with him to be nearer college. That was one of my other reasons not to leave! But I don;t think I can do this any more, so I;m just going to have to tell her how much I love her, tell her that I want her to live with me, but I suppose it;s her decision, at the end of the day. It will kill me if she chooses him, though, then my family is really split up. And I;ve really failed everyone .

chocy it is not you thats failed anyone, if anyone has its their father, he has been an arse from what your saying. There is no excuse for that. Please dont take the blame for all this.

The problem is, what if he is right? what if I am making a big thing out of nothing and I regret it? What if I realise too late that he really is the great father that he says he is? What if I move the DC to the town, have no money, DS is bullied and I'm no happier, what then? What if I lose DD? I have kept on trying to make everything OK because of the thought of everything I;ll lose. I just doubt myself all the time. Sorry, I just feel really down and powerless and it just feels too big a decision for me to make on my own.

I never used to be this wet, I;m sure.