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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

to think we need to take control of mom's life?

42 replies

SmudgeButt · 19/10/2019 17:17

My mom is exceedingly old, starting to lose the plot, struggles to get upstairs to her bedroom, is beginning to lose track of personal hygiene and when to eat. She lives on her own, several miles from town where there are no buses and no taxis. Despite being a hazard on the road she still drives.

I have brothers that live much closer to her than I do (she's not in the UK and I am) and they think until mom decides on her own that she needs a carer or needs to move into town and possibly into a care home then we should just leave her to it. And that nothing should be done about her driving hoping that when she is retested next summer that she'll lose her license.

I am not in a position to go and assist with anything but think that we need to consider activating her power of attorney and take control of her life. The difficulty is it's not going to be me that has to do this.

Short of waiting for her to have a dreadful car accident or a fatal tumble down the stairs can you think of anything else I can do or say to my brothers to make them see some sort of sense? Their current line is that "we can't force her, that would be bullying" so they are stopping phoning her to make her know better what it's like to be lonely. And the one who lives closest and has been at her house at least once a day for the last five years has told her he'll only be coming over once a week in the future and maybe not even that. Personally I think this is even worse bullying than "forcing" her into a care home

OP posts:
Original poster
SmudgeButt · 19/10/2019 17:18

fyi - she also refuses to move her bedroom downstairs or have any changes made to the house to make an accessible wetroom or anything similar.

OP posts:
chuttypicks · 19/10/2019 17:51

You should contact whatever local authorities would deal with this and inform them of this. Your DM might kill someone on the roads one day. Do you really want that on your conscience??

deste · 19/10/2019 17:52

What if she kills someone with her car because that is a possiblity. If you spoke to her GP about her still driving they may take her licence from her now.

Original poster
SmudgeButt · 19/10/2019 18:17

Obviously I'm very concerned about her hitting someone or worse killing them with her car. She def shouldn't be driving.

But if my brother isn't going to see her and there are no buses or taxis she is completely isolated, unable to see anyone, unable to shop and completely on her own with no interaction. That's not as dreadful but still pretty horrible.

So there has to be some way to convince my brothers to convince her she needs to make a big change in her life.

OP posts:
RolytheRhino · 19/10/2019 18:19

I'd start with convincing your brother not to drop his visits. That makes no logical sense.

Passthecherrycoke · 19/10/2019 18:22

To be honest, as you’re not there and aren’t going to take any caring responsibility I think you have to be guided by your brothers who are/will

Also nothing you have said here sounds like POA needs envoking- what do you think you need it for?
Just because people are old and infirm doesn’t mean they should lose their freedom

Singlenotsingle · 19/10/2019 18:41

Doesn't sound as though the brothers can be arsed. They don't care, do they?

chuttypicks · 19/10/2019 18:58

Maybe you need to visit your DM with your DBs and explain exactly what the issues with her driving are and explain that things will be changing with immediate effect. Someone needs to man up in this situation and if your brothers won't do it then you're just going to have to aren't you? You may not be there permanently to do the work but surely you could go for a week or two to organise what needs to be done vis-à-vis your Mum and brothers and any carers etc, and to get rid of the car.

Interestedwoman · 19/10/2019 19:04

It's going to worry you more as you can do less about it of course, not being local (which isn't to say your worries are unfounded.)

If you're sure not driving is for the best (it sounds like it) you can ring the equivalent of the DVLA in that country and let them know, then they might bring her retest forward or something.

Your brothers should be visiting more, not less, maybe. :/

filka · 19/10/2019 19:45

It's good that there is a POA in place, but I don't think you can activate it until she is no longer able to make rational decisions for herself. Just being frail isn't enough. In the UK it has to be activated through the Court of Protection.

That means being a little bit more specific about your comment "she's starting to lose the plot". Do you mean dementia?

As a PP has mentioned, her GP may be willing to recommend that she stops driving. There could be a combination of measurable issues including failing eyesight, slow reaction time, medication that causes drowsiness. See www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/older-drivers-deciding-when-stop-driving (amongst many others), also note that your insurance may not cover you if it is found that your health impairs your ability to drive.

user1471504234 · 19/10/2019 20:26

First of all, do you already have power of attorney? When you say you need to activate it I guess you already have it set up? Cos if you don’t it will be almost impossible if you say she is ‘losing the plot’

Secondly, please understand that this is also hard for your brothers too. It’s not nice being the sibling dealing with it every day, while another sibling is trying to issue orders from afar.

Kiwiinkits · 19/10/2019 20:32

You can’t force people to do what they want to do. One of life’s annoying realties.

Kiwiinkits · 19/10/2019 20:33

what they DON’T want to do

saraclara · 19/10/2019 20:38

Why are they trying to get her to understand what it is to be lonely? What are they trying to get from that?

I'm the absent daughter while my brother fields all my mum's problems as he lives five minutes away from her. I tread extremely carefully. he's had decades of stress and hard work, while I swanned up to visit for her for a couple of hours once every three months or so. I honestly have no right to tell him what he should be doing. I'd be livid in his place. Fortunately we rarely disagree on anything to do with her.

But yep, I'd have to ask them what they want to achieve by rejecting her, and ask them to imagine what it will do to her.

user1471453601 · 19/10/2019 20:41

As an elderly person, and fairly frail, I find the title of your thread.disrespectful. You may feel your mother should no longer drive, that makes sense. And of course you should do something about that one thing.

But "to take control of" another person's life is in my view way over the top. She may not be safe anymore to drive, but to suggest that you should control another person's life If they still have some form of agency? Way over the top

Swishyswash · 19/10/2019 20:48

You can anonymously report someone to the DVLA.
There's a form on their web site.

saraclara · 19/10/2019 20:54

The mother isn't in the UK @Swishyswash

helpfulperson · 19/10/2019 20:55

To be honest unless you're going to do the hands on work you have to be lead by your brothers. By all means report your concerns to the local equivalent of the dvla but no you can't take control of her life.

fluffygal · 19/10/2019 20:58

I am an adult social worker- even if someone lacks capacity, you can't force them to have carers. And every decision that's made should be in the person's best interests, and the least restrictive- therefore care home without trying everything else possible first is a no no. Nothing you have said makes me think she needs urgent help- people are allowed to make unwise decisions.
With regards to driving, all I can suggest is you speak to their GP,

saraclara · 19/10/2019 21:11

I think it's fair to ask her if she wants the financial element of the POA enacting (assuming it works like the UK one). If she's not able to pay her bills etc, then the POA makes it a lot easier for one of you to do that for her. That doesn't really have a downside, and might relieve some stress for her.

Does she have a room downstairs that can be converted into a bedroom?

Countryescape · 20/10/2019 08:48

@fluufygal your attitude I feel is very irresponsible. I’m quite shocked actually. This woman is neglecting her own hygiene, isn’t eating properly and is likely a danger on the roads and all I hear from you is “oh well what can you do” Confused

lljkk · 20/10/2019 08:52

Trying to force her against her will be a nightmare, OP. You can't do it (emotionally or physically or legally).

Who does have influence on your mom, who can influence her that it's better to jump before she's pushed?

baileys6904 · 20/10/2019 08:58

@countryescape that's not what shes saying at all.

Everyone has a right to live the life yhey want to live. It's only when behaviour becomes dangerous that anyone can step in, whether with power of attorney or social services. That's a court's ruling
The only thing that puts anyone at danger at the moment is the car, hence why she should speak to the doctor. However there are plenty of people with dementia still living independently, still driving etc.
I would be tempted to speak to the OPs mum about care, both for companionship and also eating/ bathing.

I also think OPs fears are more due to not being int he same country. Maybe it's worth a visit OP, so you can see for yourself and make arrangements from that

vdbfamily · 20/10/2019 09:02

fluffygal is not being irresponsible, she is staying what UK law is. It may be different if this person is not in the UK, but in this country there are lots of protections in placed to prevent someone muscling in and making decisions on our behalf as we get older. OP, has someone in your family found out what local support is available and how much it costs. It sounds to me as if she is finding things more difficult but still managing at present. All the while a person is able to make an informed choice, they are allowed to make bad decisions and choices. They would have to be fairly impaired cognitively to be considered lacking capacity. I think your brother's should continue to visit in the way they always have done but not take on extra and each time she asks someone to do extra, they can have a conversation along the lines of, maybe you need some regular help with that now mum. Could one of your brother's offer to take her shopping weekly so she has no need of her car. I find that if someone only uses their car to shop, if you point out how much it is costing then to run, they will often be happy to consider not having one and using a taxi instead/ getting a lift.

vdbfamily · 20/10/2019 09:06

sorry...just read no taxis. Sometimes shopping is the only time an elderly person leaves the house so to make it into a weekly adventure with maybe a stop for a coffee and chat may be a better way forward than stopping visiting which will achieve nothing. Does she need extra rails on the stairs to make her safer? Maybe suggest she has a community Occupational therapist assess her. Not knowing wh were she lives makes it hard to advise but many places have got meal deliveries too