Do you recognise this type of behaviour...?

[JamRok]

I've decided to call it covert goading...

I've come to realise that I've got people in my life that try to goad in a subtle and insidious way, then sit back and enjoy the results.

For example, I was out having dinner with some friends the other night, and this one individual appeared to target everything I was saying and disagreeing with everything I say, and presenting the complete opposite viewpoint (not matter how controversial). All done in a very subtle way. I also noticed that this was only targeted at me.

Now I thought we were having reasonable discussions and exchange of views, but it seemed this one individual just kept targeting what I was saying regardless (which was nothing controversial).

So my questions to you are:

• do you recognise this type of behaviour?
• and do you have any similar stories?

My reason for asking is I'm becoming more aware of the more covert toxic behaviours as well as the overt ones. The problem I find with the more covert toxic behaviours is they leave me feeling like it must be me with the problem when deep down I know it isn't.

Anyway would be keen to hear your thoughts and experiences.

DB. We barely speak now. But I wouldn’t call it covert goading (unless you know the views they are sharing with you aren’t their actual views). DB just looks at the world very differently from me and is a selfish twat, needless to say we don’t agree on very much. We meet about twice a year now and I psych myself up so I can just ignore his right wing misogynistic narcissistic views......he doesn’t actually want a healthy debate or argument, he just wants to shout me down.

Thanks Shoe...

Psyching yourself up to ignore certain comments - Yes I recognise that. I have to do that when I visit my Dad.

Depressing isn't it.

I always found this kind of behaviour from others baffling. I got lots of tips for handling it from a book called 'Don't Let Them Psych You Out'. It's quite easy not to play their game. I don't think it's necessarily personal, just that someone sees a chance to wind someone up and takes it.

Thanks Goodbye P

I agree people seem to do this kind of thing for sport / their own entertainment.

It felt personal in the example I gave because it only seemed targeted at me at the dinner table (group of us).

Will definitely have a look at the book you mention.

My mum does this to me (amongst other things). She takes such glee in the fact that I'm apparently so easy to wind up.
It's nasty and bizarre behaviour. I have been no contact for nearly 3 months and it has been bliss.

I know 2 people like this. I'm pretty sure they only do it to big themselves up. Both are male funnily enough.

Yes Smash - glee is the word! I've seen the look on people's faces when they know they've pressed a button and glee is definitely that look.

Such people need to find a useful purpose in life.

I do this to folk I absolutely cannot stand, have no respect for. I hate myself for doing it so I stop it. It is low. But sometimes I can't help it. I see it everywhere. Covert goading is a very good description.

Its passive aggressive. They dont like you and you pissed them off so they set out to be awkward.

Thanks for sharing Jam.

Yes that's my conclusion Mummybares, I don't think they like me very much. I don't know why, I think I'm an ok person.

But recognising this means I now need to avoid. No point spending time with people who don't like me, just so that they can target their toxic behaviours towards me.

My sil (dbros wife) would do this.

An example would be that we were all having dinner. She kept trying to start a debate about sahm vs wohm. She was a sahm I was a wohm.

She kept saying things like 'dhs friends wives are surprised I am not going back to work and make digs' i would just respond with 'oh right'.

Then she would start staying 'I don't judge them for going back when their babies were 6 months even though I dont think it's good for the baby' again, I would respond with neutral 'oh right'.

Then 'do you think it's bad for babies for mothers to go back?' She knew I went back when mine were 6 months. I was also aware of her views, she posted in facebook several weeks before that women whi want to have kids and go back to work should be infertile and not able to have kids.

To this I responded 'I don't judge. Everyone makes the decision thats right for their family work or stay at home. Its not of my business what others do. Right does anyone want a drink?' And get up and walk away.

One time she kept pushing and pushing. In the end I did say 'I dont really want to debate this with you. I dont think there is a right or wrong answer. I know your views and dont think it right to have this discussion when my mother has spent the afternoon cooking for us all to have a nice dinner together. Lets just avoid these difficult and emotive debates for her sake.' In front of all the others.

She then stopped. I dont really see her. Anymore. Its been years. She wants to be able to tell people what she thinks of them but thinks presenting it as a debate will allow her to do that.

Op in your situation I would have probably drawn attention to her behaviour by saying something like 'wow we dont agree on anything do we?' While smiling or 'ita amazing how people can be in the same social circle and disagree with every point if view they have', again while smiling.

Or if I was feeling that way out ibwould say 'do you genuinely disagree with everything I say or are you just feeling that way out'

It really depends on who I am with, the situation and how I am feeling.

Personally I think these type of people see someone showing some confidence (like you have shown by giving your opinion) and dont like it. So they try and chip away at it.

Yes avoid them, its about them not you. A normal peeson just talks to you raise it up so you can at least have a chance to set them straight, apologise, explain or change what upsets them.. who would want someone like that as a friend anyway, so teenagery.

Just make sure you dont end up isolating yourself drom the rest of the group so organise and initiate meet ups as if you avoid events when you know they will be there, the others you like and get on with might think you have changed towards them or too busy for them.

Along similar lines, have you any experiences of people who you feel dislike you but still invite you to social gatherings anyway? ...Presumably for the very reason to target you?

I believe I have. Would be interested to hear any other experiences.

I'm sure you are a lovely person. It is not ok to treat anyone (unless they're a complete wanker) in this horrible way. You deserve better friends

Jam all my childhood. I've never included folk I don't like in my plans but I was certainly used like that by childhood friends.

I would love to understand that mentality too. Deeply hurtful.

Yes I absolutely need to avoid these people.

But I'm also interested in ways to handle / respond without getting wound up.

Yup, I have to go-parent with one of these. He’s also very unreasonable. If you react at all, call him out on his behaviour, hold up a mirror to him, he goes crying to his solicitor and the police. It’s disgusting behaviour, which really wears you down.

Exactly Jam. I also want to understand the mentality as I think it will help me handle these situations better.

They just want to be right and for the world to agree that they are better than everyone else. I also grew up with one of these people. It stems from low self esteem, I think. Best avoided if at all possible.

My sister does it to me everytime we are together

Not exactly the same but similar. I have a "friend" from a hobby who is toxic. They are very experienced at the hobby and teach, but I always came away from interactions with them that seemed supportive and pleasant, feeling a bit yuck. She will act like she's trying to help people improve by pointing out a flaw, and pretend she's helping and being really positive about it, but what she's actually doing is boosting her ego by reassuring herself that she's better than everyone. I realised that when a couple of us were watching X and saying how wonderful they were getting, she had to say "oh he'll be better when he just learns to Y". It took me over 5 years and some eventual courageous conversations to realise that every single interaction I had with her contained a little barb for me or somebody else, that she did it to everybody, and whatever praise she showered on somebody came with a) "points for improvement" no matter if it wasn't an appropriate time or was clearly going to be received awkwardly or badly, and b) pointing out how flawed that person was to somebody else behind their back. It didn't seem that anybody had ever pulled her up on it and those with the power to book her to teach thought was wonderful. I stopped going to the club she mainly goes to (that I otherwise adore) and brace myself when she works at the other club that I also work at, trying to avoid and limit interactions and she still manages it, even in one 10 second interaction - I just don't pretend to pander to her any more than basic politeness any more. She's realised it I'm sure, which will be why she gets it done in the 10 seconds

I saw her while walking my new dog last week, exchanged pleasantries, and she said to my dog "I don't like dogs" about 3 times and made no effort to fuss her or acknowledge she was new. This, the lady who stealth boasts prides herself on her canine charity work and has recently adopted 2 of her own

These people are very good at it and it seems impossible to call them out on it because they'd argue they were joking or being helpful or having polite adult debate. Limiting exposure to them and biting your tongue hard not to say anything when you have to see them are the only two strategies I know that semi-work.

She sounds just like my mother, coffee. I'm recently coming to terms with the realisation that mother is a narcissist. I have stupidly tried to win her love by lapping up her criticisms, observations and advice about other people (everyone). It's ruined so many of my relationships

I had someone do this to me because I irritated them. We were from very different backgrounds and I learned subsequently they felt insecure generally.