Re: When Does this stop being abusive?

[Optimistic123]

Ok so,
I've been with my partner for 25 years, over the last 13 or 14 years life become stressful when we our oldest son began to exhibit quite violent behaviour. He was diagnosed with ASD and began to get some (very little) help through CAMHS. His frustration would turn to anger and quite often violent tantrums.

His tantrums would result in him biting, kicking, punching his mother and myself, breaking things....-and also became self directed (banging his head on the floor, hitting himself). We had been to CAMHS for years and years and they offered the option of anti0-psychotic medication, which my partner refused (she works in mental health and sees the harm and side effects of these medications).

Our son is now 15 and he refuses to accept his diagnosis, lacks insight and refuses any kind of support, at school and CAMHS - and is mortified at the notion that anyone at school will find out he has a diagnosis for ASD.
He is constantly abusive to me - and his mother (although he hasn't been as extreme to her over the past few months). He will call me names, spit at me, punch me ....and often will sneak up behind me to punch me in the back of the head and then throw a glass of water at me before running off and calling me abusive names.

For years my partner tried to stop me from communicating with our son as she was worried that if i challenged his behaviour he would have a violent outburst . This resulted in me having to step on egg shells constantly and have to deal with the constant abuse.
I was told that the police were not to be called - and while CAMHS knew of the level of abuse there was nothing put in place by them to protect me.

While this was going on (for years) we moved house to an area where our son could get into a school that was more inclusive. (he didn;t have a statement as he was academically gifted and there was no recognition of that point of the emotional and social aspects of an SEN statement).

We moved into a rented house....which I paid the majority of bills for, and our own house was meant to be rented out.
My partner refused to rent our house (with the mortgage on) out to anyone in case they caused any damage....and eventually agreed for one friend to stay there. She refused point blank to rent out to more tenants..

So, for 3 years i had the equivalent of £1600 a month in bills to pay...bills, rent, mortgage, ( after 1 tenant small amount) while my partner paid around £400 a month - (including car and car ins, tax, etc).

I earned around £2300 a month and this eventually began ti break me as I was working full time, decorating our owned home with the intention of then selling it - and dealing with our abusive son - who was constantly berating, verbally abusing me and hitting me,.

During this period of time I was also bending over backwards to please my partner as she worked part time but in a stressful job, had a lot of confidence issues, depression....but was constantly sniping at me, always angry at me, not willing to show any emotion or intimacy towards me. (it was at the point where our son slept in our bed as he was too anxious to be on his own - with a new school where he had no friends from his old school)

The environment was toxic to say the least and often when there was an argument she would tell me the relationship was over, that I was a piece of fucking shit and on a number of occasions would pull at me, kick and hit me. Not on one occasion but a number.
When I mentioned that this was abuse she would laugh and ay that i was a man and that even saying that was abuse was being pathetic and being a wuss. Eventually she would then cry and say that I was the only person she even reacted to this way etc..

With all the stress I had a breakdown and began to gamble, when she found out she laughed at my face and called me pathetic telling me that I needed to rake responsibility for my life and not blame other people for my problems.

A this point my mother was diagnosed with cancer.....and it was also bringing up memories of the abusive childhood I had.
As a child I has an eating disorder and speech imprediment because my mother used to beat me, often pulling me by the hair and punching me in the face (to the point where I had school photographs with makeup covering the black eye or bruises she gave me).
My mother had post natal depression and was an alcoholic with a wayward husband.

Anyway, I eventually found out that my partner was having an affair and had been for 4.5 years. When I found out she went into a panic, eventually claimed that she had been groomed by this work colleague as he could see was lonely isolated and with a difficult homelife.

He came to my work to see me and was angry because he had been told constantly that she would leave me - that she needed more time, and had just gone full time and was saving money

We had a major series of reconnections - and agreed to try and make it work between us - then a period of hyserical bonding.

Now after 9 months it feels like its slipping back again....even today when I mentioned the fact that she wouldn't let me rent the house out to take pressure off me financially she argued that she can't be constantly reminded etc, that she's moved on so why haven't I

The ironic thing is that financially I would pay for most things, holidays, DIY, and then if I used some money from the joint account every penny eould be accounted for and I would be pressured as to why i has used £5 from joint money to go to the shop.

It's recently I've begun to reflect on the emotional abuse I've suffered - from the childhood trauma of being an abuse victim to then being abused, physcically, emotionally and financially - by my partner.....and also having to just accept the emotional and physical abuse from my son. (this also reminds me of the abuse I faced from my older brother who would hit me daily until he moved out).

Why am I so weak that I have allowed myself to become a victim again....and reply my own childhood trauma again as an adult but this time with my mother's role taken by my parner and my violent brothers role as my son!!

What is wrong with me??

Is this an abusive relationship - how do i resolve this - or should I try and leave, although financially I'm just not sure how!!

Help me please x

I am sorry op, that all sounds dreadful. I must tell you that the survival of all of that and your reaching out for help both show you have great strength, even if it doesn't feel that way to you.

It does sound like you're being financially, physically and emotionally abused. Please call an organisation called Mankind for support and advice: 01823 334244

The website says the helpline is open 10-4 weekdays. Hopefully you can find some time alone during that window to call

You are being abused and to be honest if you didn’t have any help to recover from your childhood abuse, then falling into this is absolutely not any blame on you, but it is probably what allowed your partner to push your boundaries.

You can financially leave surely as you should just move back into the actual house you are paying for??

Also yes you need counselling and to leave her. I’m also a little skeptical about your son, how much of this is because she’s letting him not an actual “condition”.

Sounds like he needs bringing up sharp to be honest. Bet he manages to control it with everyone else at school right??

Yes he controls it at school fine, but we also have a younger son that he is verbally abusive to that I try to safeguard (he's on the waiting list with Camhs to get support for the stress that his older brother causes him)

We sold our old house - to move into the area closer to the school, after 3 years of renting...it was 6 months after moving into our new house (moved from a 35k mortgage to a £120k mortgage) that I found out about the affair.

I feel house trapped as house prices have moved up massively and the only option would be If I rent and then eventually we sell the house.

During arguments my partner has mentioned that she would make sure I paid the maximum through Child Maintenance - in some sense as a threat to stop me leaving.

One of her friends knew about her affair, covered her for years and seems to give her advice about maintenance payments etc.

I think part of her intention before I found out was that she would force me out of the house so her bf would then buy me out and move in......she panicked when I refused to leave and it was obvious she was leading her affair partner up the garden path for 5 years!

She sounds an utter nightmare, as hard as it may be if you can I’d take the financial hit of renting then try to force a sale on the house through the divorce process.

Op I am stunned by your courage. You're an amazing person.

This simply isnt your fault. I'm so sorry for what your mother started and you now have to live with. So so hard.

Your wife is an abuser. I urge you to get I'm touch with Mankind. The things shes said to you arent true- you are more courageous and strong than she will ever be.

Please please please get help and get away from this woman. You deserve peace and safety. This person is assaulting you, shes a criminal and an abuser x

Your life sounds like an utter night mare I feel so sorry and bad for you. Why would you give a women like that a second chance. Sorry. Relationships are about love, support and compromising. Nothing of that sort is happening and your dealing with abuse. This is so unfair. Everyone is living their own lives except from you.

I'd say I would try to heal myself before I think of others as no one is thinking about what your going through especially your wife.

I would leave and find peace dont kill yourself over people that wont kill for you

Love yourself. Remember your human too.

Your an amazing person and very strong. Please seek help and take care of yourself. Dont let anyone drag you down.

Please

Sorry I posted to soon.

Please see this for what it is. Your wife is abusive and cruel. You need to leave as soon as possible. Are you children witness to the violence and other abusive behaviour? It won't be easy to leave but you need to find a way. Please get help if you can. Although it is usually women who are the victims of domestic violence it's well accepted than men suffer too. Sadly, you aren't the first and you won't be the last.
Good luck.

Too*

Time to put yourself and your younger son first. You wife is really only looking out for herself and your older son. I think your best option is to start divorce proceedings so you can separate financially from your wife. Would it be possible for your younger son to live with you primarily and visit his mum and brother?

You deserve so much better

I'm so incredibly sad to read this, OP. Your wife is certainly abusive. You've been treated horribly. You've got more strength than most to still be standing - absolutely none of this speaks to a deficiency in you.

In respect of your older son: as an autistic person, with close autistic family members and two autistic children of my own, I am very careful to frame and be empathetic to challenging behaviours as a communication of the - often very difficult - autistic experience. However, I am finding it extremely difficult to understand your son's terrifically cruel and callous behaviour from an autistic perspective. He is older, verbal, doesn't have any relevant learning disabilities, and controls his behaviour in other settings/with other people... I'm at a loss. While his frustration and discomfort might be explained by his experience as an autistic child; his gratuitous violence presently, can't be, can it? Does he demonstrate any empathy at all?

I agree with the pp who suggested moving out and trying to take your younger son with you. I don't have any financial advice, except that no amount of money is worth you or your younger child staying in this incredibly damaging, and possibly dangerous, situation.

Take the younget son your eldest has well documented safety concerns you are clearly within your rights to safeguard him and yourself, is she on the mortgage at all?

You don’t have to put up with this, your wife sounds horrendous.

I suggest getting legal advice.

If you could move out with your youngest son I think that would be the best option. Yes, you might have to rent for a while but it really isn’t the end of the world.

The stark fact that your wife has no respect for you whatsoever leaps out of your post, and living with someone who exhibits such hostility and contempt towards you is guaranteed to break your spirit as well as your heart.

Hysterical bonding never lasts; it is time limited and when it's over reality hits and it's back to the usual grind. I suspect your wife has resumed her affair, or has her eye on another sucker man who she can use to divert her from pondering her obvious personality defects and abusive nature.

Am I right in assuming that you still have mortgaged house but are living in rented property? Does the house have a tenant? If so, give the tenant notice to quit and make it clear to your wife that your current financial situation is not sustainable and the house must be sold.

After the tenant has gone, pack up your own and younger son's belongings and move in. Do not give your wife any prior notice of your intention - take a day off work while she's working to move your things, collect your younger son from school on that day, and present them both with a fait accompli.

Much as your younger son may wish to live with his mother, I suspect that there will be a proviso in that he will express himself as immensely relieved to be away from his older brother and will happily settle with you while seeing his mother as and when he wishes.

If you are living in separate households it should be relatively easy to keep the brothers apart and relieve the stress that your younger son is currently undergoing.

If my assumption about the mortgaged house is incorrect and it has, in fact, been sold, I would suggest you rent a two-bed apartment for yourself and your younger son asap and put the above into action.

If one of your two children is living with you the question of maintenance for either should not apply and it's highly unlikely that your wife will be able to succeed in any claim for spousal support as she is working.

By way of a sweetener, you could see fit to offer your wife a nominal sum in recognition of your older son's greater needs.

However, I would suggest you seek advice and clarification from a solicitor who specialises in family law . As you need a lawyer with considerable experience of domestic disputes including abuse, seek recommendations from friends/relatives/colleagues.

You CAN end this nightmare lifestyle and create a much better way of life for yourself and your younger son. Keep your eyes on the prize that is a relaxed and tension-free home. DO NOT LOOK BACK, metaphorically speaking, or be persuaded by any promise from your wife to change her ways etc as abusers never change.

That’s so awful op, you poor thing :(

It sounds horrendous.
I'd look for a rental and take my younger son with me and move out. He needs to have some peace and try to help improve his mental health, poor kid.
The older one is getting help at school and from your post it seems his mother puts him first anyway.
For yours and your Ds2 sake, move out and let her get on with it.
If she can't afford the house on her wage and child maintenence for one child, then it'll have to be sold and proceeds split.
Go and talk it all through with a solicitor.

I am sorry you are going through this. You sound so strong. I agree with other posters that you should move out with your younger son.

This is very clearly abuse. Leave as soon as you can, please.

Thank you everyone for all your feedback, advice and support, I'm sorry I didn't follow the thread up at the time. I was, to be honest, a bit embarrassed at having exposed so much of my self, my vulnerabilities and my domestic situation.

Since September a lot has happened, it's not a long period of time but it feels like an aeon for me.

My relationship with my eldest son has improved a lot, i suggested an exercise regime to him as a way to keep healthy and gain focus, which he's taken on board. He goes to the gym every second day and this has calmed him massively.

I think his pent up frustrations and anxieties that would explode when he arrived home from school have now found an outlet. He's much happier now and actually spends time with all of us as a family, I'm at the stage where I'm able to have conversations with him or he'll ask me for advice!

Part of this was my own confidence and taking parenting away from a one sided approach which had occurred before.

I reflected on everyone's advice, with a lot of people suggesting that I leave with my youngest son in order to safeguard him. My youngest is very close to his mother, to both of us and he would never leave him mother, regardless of how difficult times have been with his older brother - so I didn't really feel able to take that option.

Since starting the gym our eldest is initiating conversations with his younger brother rather than constantly criticising him. We even played Monopoly together over christmas and sat together on New Year's Eve to count down to 2020!! This would have been unthinkable in the not so distant past!!

I've also got support in place for our youngest through our local CAMHS team.

It's practically a year to the day when I confronted my partner about her affair. 2nd January 2019.

A lot has happened since then, the first few weeks were very difficult as I tried to keep my family together and she was confused about what she wanted.

We went through an intense period of hysterical bonding - which ended around May - and then my own feelings of anger, jealousy betrayal, confusion, all took over. My partner said that she had felt groomed into the affair - as if she was manipulated into the situation and didn't know how to get out of it. I was never convinced by this as one of her friends and work colleagues acted as cover for her by pretending she was staying at hers when she stayed overnight with her affair partner.

The minimalisation went on with details of how there was no real sex life as he had no libido due to anti depressants he was taking because he was depressed that she wouldn't leave me so they could be a proper couple. Her impression of her affair was that it was mainly emotional for her and then she felt trapped as she feared that he would try and destroy her life if she left him.

I've been guilty of accusations, outbursts and lack of trust about so many of her 'friendships' and the true nature of her affair, that it caused a lot of stress between us.

My own childhood trauma and probably ptsd surfaced through this situation and I don't know if I transferred all of this into my situation and distorted perspective or if my feelings of being victimised and abused were real. Everything was so subtle that it all become a reality - and when I confronted my partner with what I was experiencing she was upset and in shock.

We're still together and get on and work together as a partnership, ie. as parents. There is no laughter or real sense of passion, we don't share the same friends, we don't share the same sense of humour or interests, - my partner doesn't want to mix with my friends and is always critical of them. - so socially we have very separate lives.

After the hysterical bonding stage any sense of passion or attraction between us seems to have been lost. My partner has told me that she would like more intimacy between us (there was a lot for a few months during the hysterical bonding stage) but I don't feel passionate about her anymore. Part of this may be due to my being diagnosed with depression and taking anti depressants but I don't think it is.

I find other women attractive but have no interest in flirting.

One of my female friends that I get on well with and feel comfortable and myself around, recently, while drunk, expressed her feelings towards me and made a pass at me. She had been joking around all night about me leaving my partner for her, (she's aware of everything I've been through recently)

I enjoy her company and friendship and am attracted to her but politely joked off her flirtations - but then succumbed to kissing just as my taxi arrived. I had no intention of taking it further - although I'm attracted to her and can't really explain why I responded that way. (well I can)

My friend never mentioned the kiss or anything to do with that night , we've exchanged one facebook message and then she's become a bit detached. Maybe embarrassed about expressing her feelings, or embarrassed that we kissed...drunk and didn't really mean it and worried I might have taken her on her word and that maybe I'd want to develop things further! Who knows.

So it's a year to the day when I found out that my partner was having an affair with someone for 4.5 years. That (according to her - and she just acquiesed...he was planning a future together with her).

When we agreed to try again with our relationship - we gave it a year. The year is up - so decisions have to be made.

It's been traumatic at times - I've expressed the trauma of being abused emotionally, financially and physically (at times) over the last couple of years as she took out her frustrations on me. In my desperate attempts to keep my family together and placate my partner, an abusive situation become normalised.

That's not the case anymore as I've got my confidence back, thanks to you guys and your support!! So thanks everyone....the future is uncertain and there are choices to be made - and hopefully I'll make the right ones.

It's great that you are making tremendous strides forward in your own, and your sons, lives. However, please don't get involved with anybody else (even kissing) whilst you are still with your partner. Work out what it is you want now. If you do not want to continue in this relationship then you must be strong and end this relationship and live separately before even thinking about another relationship. With all that you have been through a period of being by yourself may help you to regroup and to come to terms with all the trauma that you have experienced.

Thanks Heyday and apologies for the late response. A lot has changed since my optimistic last post. One of my closest friends split with his partner and told me that his relationship had been very abusive, physically and emotionally. He hasn’t told me about the bad things that were taking place although I got sense it was tense between them. It ended when she attacked him, damaged his clothes and tried to hurt him physically by throwing things at him. He left and told her it was over, the reasons why and for her not to contact him again. He was very traumatised by everything he’s gone through so I’ve been spending fine with him to help build his confidence, self esteem...and just be there as a supportive pal..he’s one of my make friends that I can talk openly with.

Anyway, I asked him to come round on Sunday to help put up the bathroom blinds and hang some picture frames. I have a double hernia and herniated disc in my lower spine that impinges in my central spinal nerve and causes extreme and chronic pain (everything around it is a different post!).

After my friend had left, my partner basically exploded in a rage at me, that how dare I bring my friends around to the space that she feels comfortable in. That she doesn’t know what I’ve told them and that I’ve probably demonised her and made her out to to be an abusive exploitative piece of work. That she was extremely uncomfortable in her own home and then starting to lay into me that I care more about my friends than her and our children, that I’d already seen him just a few days before (he’s just got out of an abusive relationship and Is in a very difficult place, he’s already starting counselling to get himself through it.. so I told her that he needs support after what he’s gone through)

I mentioned to my partner about her friend being around our current and previous houses....being friendly with me and our children...and yet her friend allowed her to use her as an alibi during her affair, that at least once a month she would say she was going walking and staying at her friends house...so she would go early morning Saturday and come back late Sunday afternoon. That she was actually seeing her affair partner,,staying at his or going away for the night with him. That her friend was complicit and that now I know this, how does she understand how I feel about her friend being in our house.

I also told her that when one of her work colleagues stayed over at our house with another work colleague when they went to another colleagues party she was extremely rude and unfriendly to me. I imagined it was due to some toxic narratives that had been spun about me. My partner was furious that I called her friend rude and obnoxious towards me, she claimed that her friend was one of the nicest people you can meet and I’m massively offended by my view of her friend!!

It got worse, she accused me of having done nothing to try to work on our relationship. That she has done everything possible to reconnect, to make amends for the past...but that I’m so arrogant, self focused, selfish and am here but not here, that I live as if I’m independent, that I’m a part time parent and if our children lived with me they would be taken into care as I can’t even look after myself so shouldn’t be a carer for our children!

I explained to her that we had our hysterical bonding stage, then in May she broke her nose when she took the car for an MOT and closed the door on herself when she was getting something from the passenger seat. I was in Ireland for a few days over that weekend for a work event and stayed with my Dad for one night as I don’t get to see him often and he’s very lonely since my Mum died 2 years ago. She kicked off when I got back, pushing her face into mine pointing out her nose and shouting at me that it was my fault. That if I’d have been here I would have been taking the car for the MOT not her, that I will pay for cosmetic surgery to fix it.

After that, for me. It all went downhill, I wasn’t drawn towards being intimate towards her, or being close to her. That experience pushed me away.

So during our argument recently she accused me of making her celibate since July, that I’ve made her lonely and undesired, that she thought about her ex affair partner, what he’s up to now and how he’s doing but she didn’t contact him as she didn’t want to go back there.

That she was frustrated at my self obsession, at my I’ll health and my me me me’ attitude.

I had/have severe depression that took hold around October and I found it hard to function or have motivation or any desire. This was compounded by a double hernia that I was waiting for an operation on...gallstones... and also recently receiving long overdue scan results for my extreme back pain...which revealed that I have a herniated disc in my L4/5 disc that’s impinging on my central spinal nerve.

I was, daily, for the last two years, dealing with chronic pain, the stress of a lot of issues with hospital delays (5 months for the consultant to ask my GP for ultrasound scan results and a misdiagnosis...took 10 phone calls to his secretary and 2 gp letters to get him to sort it) at my first meeting with that consultant he spent most of the arguing on the phone with his wife...didn’t examine me properly, ignored my back pain and shooting pains in my leg, wrote to the gp (after 5 months) confirmed that I gave gallstones but no hernia or other concerns.

The next meeting he examined me and confirmed a double hernia and sent my for x rays. The next meeting I had was a different consultant who actually listened to me and sent me for an mri scan. It took 4 months to get the results back (again, phone calls and gp letters) this confirmed that I had a herniated disc.

All of this chronic pain and stress with the consultants lack of concern caused me a lot of stress to the point where my gp diagnosed depression and put me on Sertraline and gabapentin. By this point my blood pressure was 165/106 and cholesterol 8.1. Plus I have bradycardia, so all of these just exhausted me and made my partner angry that I was so self focused!

So, Sunday,,she said that it’s over. She chose me when she could have chosen her affair partner...I reminded her that she chose me because I refused to leave the house when I found out about her affair, that she had been gaslighting me for a long time, trying to force me out, that it didn’t work and she realised she would have to move out... that her plans of moving me out and introducing her affair partner to our children, bit by bit, didn’t work and so she stayed and tried to make it work for her own reasons.

She told me that I can’t get over the past, that I can’t move on and if I can’t move past it then there’s no point. I reminded her that for 3 years I was celibate, that she kept me at arms length, emotionally distant and claimed it was work stress and depression... our eldest son with ASD had a lot of trouble sleeping so he ends up sleeping in our bed while I slept in his bed. Everytime I tried to resolve this I was knocked back.

So for 3 years I slept in a seperate bed, there was no emotional engagement or intimacy and I was constantly chastised and criticised for the most minute thing. I dealt with it hoping that things would change, completely unaware that she would, for that whole period, have her boyfriend pick her up or drop her off on our small street, probably right outside our house.

So I told her, while she was screaming at me, that yes, it is over, I can’t get over that or many other things, that my health issues impact on me immensely, that I’m in extreme pain and depressed and that I don’t see any kind of connection between us so yes this is over.

Later she came back to me and started shouted but I just calmly told her that there is no reason to shout as it’s over. That she aggressively told me it’s finished and I agreed, she started crying saying that she never meant that she was just frustrated...so I told her that I meant it and we need to think about logistics snd not argue.

Since then she’s been very communicative, been much more attentive and is clearly not thinking that I meant it’s over.

I told her that with my illness and depression and everything that’s happened, I really need to get better and learn to love myself and be in a relationship with myself before being able to be in any kind of relationship.

On Tuesday I was due to have my double hernia operation, it was cancelled last minute as someone noticed in my notes that I have bradycardia and a loop implant recorder. The surgeon and anaesthetist freaked out....everyone did as my consultant did not communicate this to anyone. Didn’t communicate with my GP or cardiologist or make it clear (as he did to me) that I needed an experienced anaesthetist who could connect my heart to an external pacemaker and give me the correct anaesthetic (your pulse drops during surgery).

The consultant failed to communicate this to anyone (he’s on long term sick). So if that wasn’t spotted last minute, I was told that I would have died probably less than ten minutes after the general anaesthetic was given.

This traumatised me, I went to my GP who immediately gave me a sick note for depressive disorder and told me to reduce my stress immediately as I’m hypertensive with very high cholesterol so at severe risk of a fatal heart attack.

Part of me feels that my partners issues would have been solved if the op hadn’t been cancelled. For me I’m in a toxic space but need to keep stress free and get better for my children and myself. They’re my focus and motivation.

So, after my last post, I’m less optimistic now!

This thread is heartbreaking, Optimistic. What is positive is that you have regained confidence and are seeing things clearly but it must have been terrible at its worst.

You really must take care of your health now, that is of primary importance because if you were seriously ill you'd be no use to your children and unable to make decisions regarding your relationship with your wife. High blood pressure and cholesterol can be brought under control with care so look meticulously at your diet and make some changes.