Should I go and visit the new baby?

[titnomatani]

Going to try and keep this short:

I come from a very, very toxic family (abusive, hostile, selfish, gaslighting b*stards). In the past, I was naive and must've come across as easy pray because they all used me for years (either emotionally or financially) and I feel I've spent most of my life trying to please them but never really getting the recognition/acceptance I deserved. Years and years of therapy has taught me to (semi) let go and get on with my own life. Despite this, I still end up getting reeled into their dramas and ALWAYS come out the bad guy who can't do right.

Present situation is my only brother has had a baby- hurrah- except his wife isn't talking to any of the sisters (4 of us) because my brother has been stirring between everyone making himself the victim. His wife has openly and verbally abused us all but especially me (she returned an expensive gift I gave her at her wedding and donated all the rest of my presents to her to charity and then sent me a card telling me what she'd done and how she thought I was a b*tch). My other 3 sisters are going to go and visit the baby on the weekend (because no matter how bitchy they are to each other, they pull out all the stops on official occasions like these) and one of them has got in touch to see if I'd like to join them. They're also gifting the baby £100 each. I feel quite bitter about this because when my baby was born a year ago- he got stained/damaged hand me downs from his aunts and one new outfit each and my brother got him a baby grow and a pack of vests. Everything was gratefully received at my end but I can't help but feel different/an outsider again. Also, I'm currently expecting my second baby and feeling quite emotional and will probably end up in tears if I go and see everyone pretending they love each other and wondering why I'm the one they so openly mistreat without a care in the world.

Should I still go, fake a smile and see my nephew or should I stay where I am and make my excuses? I come from a culture where family is revered and you're meant to sacrifice yourself for them. I'm done with all that bullshit because my lot don't deserve my loyalty. My brother is a drama queen so if I'm the only one missing, he'll go to town on it (for context, he rang me when I'd had my baby and I had come out from theatre after an EMCS and blasted at me for having the baby earlier than he thought because he wasn't now able to come and see us as HE'D planned and blamed me that it was going to cause problems in his marriage- a total douchebag- my sisters are just as worse if not more). Also, I'm not working atm and although we're okay on just my husband's salary, I can't justify gifting £100 to anyone. I'm also reluctant to gift the baby outfits because of how his mum donated all my expensive gifts to her to charity- in hindsight at least they went to a good cause but I'm not in a position to spend money on things and then those things being given away IYSWIM.

Wwyd? Please help me make sense of this situation.

You do not have to go and I would not attend.

You would not have tolerated this sort of behaviour from a friend, family are really no different. These people will pass down their toxic crap re you and your family to their children too with the result being that you and your own family unit get scapegoated.

I would not send a card either given also how they have treated gifts sent by you on previous occasions. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles and yours here is the scapegoat for all their inherent ills.

No good would come out of or from making such a visit so I would not attend. Engaging at all with these people just brings you more pain and anguish. Drop the rope completely and do not engage with their game.

Deal with any and all fear, obligation and guilt re your family members through counselling.

titnomatani

re your comment:-
"I come from a culture where family is revered and you're meant to sacrifice yourself for them"

This to me is more like a false belief that your family instilled in you from an early age; you are the family scapegoat. Abusive family structures are active within all cultures and are no respecter either of creed.

What are your own parents like OP: they have also played a huge role in this whole dysfunctional dynamic too.

The only thing is surely your new nephew shouldn't lose out on a relationship with his aunt and uncle and cousins? I feel sad for children caught up in this. I have friends, and DH who missed out on entire familial relationships or at least relationships with family members that were not toxic, dysfunctional etc because of situations like this and it has deeply affected them for life and whilst DH for example himself rekindled relationships with those family members in adulthood, I think he was v gracious to do so when those people paid little to no interest in him as a child and adolescence living in an abusive home, in poverty etc. And I have at least one other friend in a similar position.

I think you have to accept( and pretty much are accepting) that whatever you do it will be thrown back in your face. They have treat you appallingly for years and nothing has ever changed so why continue to let them do that to you. Concentrate on your own little family now. I would just send a card nothing else.

The way your SIL has treated you!?
Hell no - I would not go.
Don't be 'hoovered' back in OP.
You owe them nothing at all.
Your life is calmer without them in it.
Don't go back to the drama!

that's what I'm conditioned to do and have done in the past out of being polite or the bigger person. I'm just not feeling it this time

I've been there. I finally cut the toxic ones out 6 years ago.
DON'T go if you don't feel like going - they will NOT appreciate it and will just project their own shite on to you again.
They will never treat you with the same respect and consideration - you've already seen that.
Giving this baby £100 each is just rubbing your nose in it and designed to make you feel like shit.

They don't seem to value or respect you and they don't have any problem treating your DC like shit either.
You do know that they will never allow you to have a proper relationship with your nephew?
I knew that about my siblings cos as soon as the dc were born i was kept at a distance.
They expected me to turn up with gifts for all occasions though - which i stopped doing.
I wasn't going to be guilted into spending my money on people i was not allowed to establish a relationship with.

I'm now extremely low contact with the family and no contact with some.
Life is so much more peaceful....and you know what, i don't miss them.
I was never a 'part' of their unit so there's nothing to keep me attached to the past.

dont go, you said yourself you dont want to!

if you want post something/ card? what they do with that.....fine! let them burn it if that makes em happy!!!

whatever you do its wrong anyway.

OP, if my sister in law had given my new gifts to charity accompanied by a card to me calling me a bitch it would spell the end. No contact. Bye bye. Keep yourself and your baby away from this drama.

Cultures where ‘family is revered’, especially if Asian, also believe in reciprocal gift giving. So if they gave you low value gifts or hand-me-downs you do exactly the same in return. But you don’t have to see them. I agree with others that you should just say you have D&V and don’t want to risk the baby’s health, order them a pack of babygro’s from the same shop they used, then leave all the Whatsapp groups and go NC.

Nah. Screw them. Just send a brief message to all of them including your brother and the wife saying “thanks for the invitation to come visit but sadly I can’t this time. This pregnancy has exhausted me and I’m laid up with a bad cold at the moment. I wouldn’t want to pass on any germs! I’ll come visit when I’m germ free. All the best and hope you all have a lovely day”
You need to start going grey rock. Passive resistance. Always super cheerful and aggressively polite and over the top “oh no, I’m so sorry to hear that” type messages. Never defend yourself against any bitchiness or provocation. They are hystrionic personalities which can only be sorted by grey rock and deflection. If you are on social media shut it down. Do not instigate any contact at all ever. You become a passive rock that cannot be poked or prodded. Then quietly in the background you get on with your own life. Go get counselling on how to set boundaries with these people. Do not contact them when the baby is born. No group announcements and no visits. Start investing in friendships and your partners family. Do not include them or involve them or inform them or anything. At all. Ever. You cannot solve this or fix them or logic with them. They have a personality disorder that only willingness and years of intensive therapy can fix. You know that which is why you are posting on here. Before you respond to any future messages from them, post it on here and we will help you compose a response. Do not ever respond immediately. Always wait at least a day. Remember, you are no longer contactable or provokable. You are bland and of no interest to them. Boring boring boring. While being anything but in the background.

I’m sure you have a heavy cold the day of the visit & can’t go. Send a card with your sisters & don’t worry about it. Don’t feed the flames - polite & cordial but don’t give them any ammo.

My family is toxic through and through. They expect a big reaction from the shit that they have done but I always treat them with indifference. They don’t get the reaction they want & end up confused.

Thank you all. I didn't go. I've been the one that delivers when required for far too long and have decided my ego and sense of importance is going to match my siblings from now on when it comes to 'family' events. Definitely going grey rock for the rest of the time.

Why would you give your nephew expensive gifts you can't really afford when last time the mother delighted in telling you she'd got rid of them? Don't be a doormat, even for family. Give your nephew a pack of vests or whatever it was they got your baby, if you must - but I'd be distancing myself from such toxic people, family or not.

You say to your sisters

SIL has told me that she doesn't like me and she invariably returns or gives away anything I give her. It's clear that she doesn't want me to visit or to give her anything. Obviously this is sad (because we'd all like to be able to enjoy family life) but there's nothing I can do to change it so I will respect her wishes.

Good for you - save your 'self' and energy for yourself and your dc and best wishes with your pregnancy

@MeadowHay

The only thing is surely your new nephew shouldn't lose out on a relationship with his aunt and uncle and cousins?

This is what's been eating away at me. I have 6 nephews (new baby would make that 7) and 2 nieces on my side. Whenever they've fallen out with me, those children have had no contact with me. In fact, one nephew refuses to speak to me because he genuinely thinks I'm mean, etc. But I can't responsibility for that anymore. They are their children and they're allowed to raise them the way they want. I don't want DC to be next in line to be made to feel the way I do.

I'm so glad you didn't go. Your family is so toxic by the sounds of it. It's not down to you to have a relationship with the children of these people.
If you choose to go NC, you are not adding to the drama. Nobody should have to send time with people that are so spiteful.

I am on the same journey as you titnomatani I know all of the answers in theory:

Keep yourself out of punching distance
Drop the rope
Go grey rock LC or NC etc.
Resist being “hoovered” back in
Dedicate your finite mental space, your emotional energy and your time to the people that matter - don’t let it be drained by these toxic people so that you are depleted for the ones your love.

BUT It is v v hard to FOG - fear, obligation, guilt - disorientates, confuses and traps us.

Our gut is screaming at us - we need to listen to it and respect it. It is exhausting.

My therapist has said that me going back each time is like a battered wife - knowing it’s wrong but each time hoping it will change.

I am looking at NC now as LC hasn’t worked for me. My Mum had the same scenario with her sisters. She did LC and each and every time was bullied and humiliated - even during her terminal illness, on her death bed and even to us at her funeral. I look at what she did and know that LC wasn’t worth it.......it just means you get punched twice a year rather than every week - but those punches are huge.

I am being hounded as we speak by a sister who I am trying to grey rock and move away from. But I hope she will give up soon.

Also I am v friendly with many of my cousins as adults despite the Mums not getting on. They didn’t want to toxicity to drop through either.

Not “....to FOG...” - “...but FOG...”

“...as FOG” - even !

Go and see the baby. Make a donation to a charity in their name and let them know that's what you have done because you know SIL prefers that gifts gonto charity

"His wife has openly and verbally abused us all but especially me (she returned an expensive gift I gave her at her wedding and donated all the rest of my presents to her to charity and then sent me a card telling me what she'd done and how she thought I was a b*tch)."

"he rang me when I'd had my baby and I had come out from theatre after an EMCS and blasted at me for having the baby earlier than he thought because he wasn't now able to come and see us as HE'D planned and blamed me that it was going to cause problems in his marriage- a total douchebag"

Hell would freeze over before I'd make an effort for either of them ever again.

You send them a new baby card. No gift or money. You don't visit them. No fucking way.

Also - check out the Stately Homes thread and read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward.

Just send a card, thats what I did when DB had his child, don't regret it and my life is fuller now I have very, very low contact with him and nc with any other family.

Fuck them! You have a family - your, your children and your husband. For years I was the emotional punch bag of my family and then realisation dawned that I dint need them. They did nothing for me emotionally or physically. Ask yourself a question, if these people weren’t blood relatives would you want to be there friends. If the answer is no, then why bother. Life is too short to be constantly hurt.