Guilty about my mother

[MumProblem01]

Hello everyone,

I've name changed for this. And sorry this is very long, it all just fell out so I hope it makes some sense

My mum has always been clingy. When I was a child she wouldn't let me do anything or go anywhere that might cause her worry or upset. In my late teems she would drive around town if she thought I was out too late looking for me. She used to hit me as a child until I starting hitting back and caused a bruise on her arm, which she said she had difficulty explaining to her workmates. I told her she shouldn't hit me then. When I was about 10 I was at my grandparents next door and she didn't know where I was (for some reason) and when I got back home (not late!) she belted me with a really thin belt folded over and over so it was about 8 strands. That left scars on the back of my legs for years. Afterwards she cried and cried and apologised and I forgave her for that because it was a one off and she had had a brutal upbringing where being hit by her father was the norm.

I left home when I was 18 because she was just so suffocating and moved to a city about 50 miles away. During my twenties I'd occasionally be back home. To be honest, I didn't really grow up. I see that now.

I married in my thirties and moved a very long way away. My now ex husband couldn't be bothered going all that way so he suggested she move in with us and we then would buy a bigger house. So that happened. It was okay. I guess he could see things I couldn't because I was inured to them. I feel it was a really big mistake because it dragged me back into being a child.

Anyway. marriage ended and I was extremely stressed and knackered, and I allowed myself to be browbeaten by my mother into buying a house together which we own jointly. I didn't have the mental strength to keep objecting and it meant I had a decent home and didn't have to live in a studio flat which, financially, was my alternative.

Fast forward to now, and through the six years or so we have lived together it has been frustrating a lot of the time. I admit now I think I just regressed into being her child because after my divorce I had cancer and that has taken me a long time to get over. I have a year to go before I get the full all clear and they discharge me. All this time because she has her own health problems I've been her carer. I've worked part time, studied because I don't want to end up on the scrap heap, done volunteering to keep my hand in and been around for her, taken her out, to appointments etc etc.

In all the time she's been here she's made no effort to join anything or to make any friends. I've tried over the years to suggest things she might like to no avail. So when I'm not around she is on her own. She keeps saying I'm enough, but what she means is she wants me around all the time.

I've allowed that. I take ownership that I haven't been helpful in this because I've enabled the situation. She had a three month stint at the local hospital in an afternoon exercise class and every single week she moaned and grumbled about going and was in a bad temper every week when I picked her up. Her doctor kept telling her how important it was she kept mobile, so I kept taking her and she's barely done anything since.

Once when we were at the doctors the doctor said to her -about being mobile and what would happen if she fell, and she replied that I'd lift her up. To which the doctor replied - your daughter has her own health to consider. There was another incident where another medical person told me my mum had me well trained.

To be honest I think it's this interaction with other people that set me off on my current train of thought. My mother does have health problems, but I have to force her to make the effort to get her own lunch. She can easily make a sandwich, or heat soup, make herself a drink etc. It's just she wants me to do it. It causes a HUGE amount of friction when I don't do as she wants. Even more so now because I have been doing in the past. I've felt guilty I think. Guilty that I wasn't a good enough daughter, that other children would be doing this.

However, all our interactions for that three month period at the hospital have opened my eyes. They told my mum that she was extremely lucky to have me.

We've started arguing more and more since then. Then I decided I'd had enough and it was time to get my life back, so I work more. Now I'm met with "oh I hardly see you these days" or accusations that I haven't done something, or have done something else.

I shouted at her this morning and hated myself for it.

The thing is, I'm berating myself for letting this go on so long. I see that for whatever reason I've taken the easy way and just gone along with how she wants things. And I find it REALLY hard to consider that actually she's made herself lonely by her refusal to make a life for herself here. This isn't a new thing, she did exactly the same when she lived with me and my ex husband, she spend eight years just sitting at home having the occasional day out herself but not making any effort to make friends because I was all she wanted.

Yesterday (which has brought all this to a head) she was really poorly and the doctor came out to see her. I feel absolutely awful but I wondered if she would have to go to hospital, just for a day, just to give me a break, just so I could relax and not have her going on at me. My heart sank when he said she should be fine in a couple of days.

She spends all the time in the living room, so I never sit there. It's as if the room doesn't exist for me. If I sit in the kitchen, or am in the kitchen it's as if I have a magnet attached to me and she'll appear as if by magic asking me what I'm doing.

It's so intense. She wants to know everything about what I'm doing, where I'm going, who I'm seeing. I don't tell her. She's always been like this.

With studying and work I'm currently doing something for about 60 hours a week. I'm absolutely determined to finish my studies and move on to a well paid career.

I'm struggling because 1. I'm knackered! and 2. I find it difficult to keep in my mind that this is my home as much as it is hers and that I'm not selfish when I want to spend time in it the way I want to, not the way she wants. I feel selfish and guilty about not taking her out more. I've been on holiday from one of my jobs for two weeks and every day she asks me if we're going out anywhere. I keep saying no and keep feeling guilty. I take her out every Sunday. It's my only day off and it is dedicated to her. She can no longer get out and about on her own because of her mobility issues, so I'm happy to do it and it's okay, it's just...enough. I can't dedicate any more time to taking her out. She would never ever go out with anyone else, nor would she ever take a taxi anywhere. It has to be me.

I don't really know why I've written all this. I suppose I need a hug or something, and maybe for someone to say that I'm not being selfish and I don't need to feel guilty.

Thanks for listening.

Oh my goodness, the abuse you suffered as a child is horrific, particularly when she belted you, leaving scars on the back of your legs.

Your Mother is an abuser, she has a weak body now and she can no longer control you, so she really won’t like that.

There is a book called Toxic Parents by Susan Forward that you should read. Your Mother sounds like an engulfer, she has made you her life in a very unhealthy way and she is used to getting her own way. I imagine the medical staff have seen her type before, they can tell she is a manipulator and that you have been abused into the role you are in.

I would imagine that your Mother played a large part in the ending of your marriage- few marriages could survive a MIL constantly at home, demanding all the attention of the wife/ husband.

Can you look at local community centres? Often there are groups for older people, they will collect them from their house and take them to a day centre.

Thank you so much for replying Outlander fan!

I hate reading what you've said, but I know there's truth in it and I need to face up to it.

My father was much more abusive, he used to hit and belt me regularly and tell me I was an awful person that no one liked and who would never come to anything, and I was neglected as a child by both of them. [I've had a LOT of psychotherapy in the last few years.] I didn't blame my mum because of her childhood. Her father used to whack her and then tell her to think "what that was for". So she is quiet and always wondering what she's done wrong. But I see that I have not been helpful to either of us in just drifting along. And feeling sorry for her because of what happened to her is not helpful in facing up to how she's been with me. My husband was also emotionally and psychologically abusive. I never knew any different for a very long time.

I feel foolish having let myself been taken in and carried along for so many years by both my parents and my ex spouse. I suppose thinking about my father and his abuse, I couldn't allow myself to think my mother also had unhealthy issues.

Recently the hospital have been suggesting activities for her. She point blank refuses to go. And she won't go. It was a battle of wills getting her to the exercise class. And I'm angry about her mobility because she's brought it on herself by her point blank refusal to exercise and keep mobile when she was fully able to. And now she wants me to take her about everywhere all the time.

I imagine the medical staff have seen her type before, they can tell she is a manipulator and that you have been abused into the role you are in.

I feel like crying with shame that they might think that. You're right though.

I need to print off any replies to my post and keep them to hand, and keep remembering and reading.

She has made me her life. And that is not my doing, nor my fault. And I can't continue to allow myself to be maneouvred by it.

Something else I've been angry about for years is that when I had cancer I was my mother's carer and remained so, and when there was a possibility that I might die, but then it transpired I wouldn't, the first thing she said was, in real panic, "What would I have done without you?" Not about me or how I felt about it.

Something else I've been angry about for years is that when I had cancer I was my mother's carer and remained so, and when there was a possibility that I might die, but then it transpired I wouldn't, the first thing she said was, in real panic, "What would I have done without you?" Not about me or how I felt about it.

It’s truly heartbreaking that when you are the most vulnerable you feel not valued by your own mother. Did you discuss this with her ?

You have had an awful abusive childhood, you have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about
you owe your mother nothing, absolutely nothing do not lift a finger to help her
it's damaging to you to help someone who has done you such great harm

your mother has crushed you and suffocated you all your life with no thought for your well-being just clinging onto you to save herself
Just run away just get the hell away from her, she's despicable

I didn't because I'd already had my father decide he couldn't cope with it so I didn't see him for months (he lives 5 miles away).

The more I'm thinking and expressing about all this, I think I realise that after having a very angry and unpredictable father as a child that I had to cling on to my mother as she was all I had. (I'm an only child.) So I forgave her what she did because she was nowhere near as bad (in my eyes) as he was.

Also, there is no point whatsoever in questioning my mother (however adult or gently it is approached), she will only sidestep the issue, say she didn't mean that, and I end up feeling guilty for bringing it up or for thinking such things about her.

OP, when I read a post like yours, you know what I wish for you?

I wish for you to completely break free from thus toxic person who has spent her life stopping you having a life.

I wish for you to sell the house and move abroad, or far away, and start a new life. Visit your mum a few times a year. If she’s mean, stop the visits.

I would totally applaud you for finally putting yourself first now and finally living your own life!

I see my mum 5 or 6 times a year. I love her, there is no history of abuse, it’s just that we have our own lives. The visits are lovely and in between we talk on the phone.

But I would not give up my own life to live with a parent. In your shoes I would have chosen a bedsit (200 miles away )

Time to start looking after yourself, you have been through a lot

That reply was for @JealousOrFair

I think you're totally right about having to cling to your mother because your father was even worse, now you can see see-through the fog (fear obligation guilt) this is your chance to escape and start properly living.
I would like to recommend the stately homes threads on here, you will find them if you search also the out of the fog website
outofthefog.website/

Your mother sees you as an object that belongs to her, a kind of personal service robot that exists to do her bidding
Run run run as far away as you can!

Work on Accepting that she won't have a social life, she won't have friends, she won't get fit, she won't look after herself. It is how it is.
But you don't have to accept the role she has given you.
I really think that you should move out. Can you imagine the pleasure of walking into your own private, decorated as you like, comfortable home after a tiring day. I think this would be the biggest help with your mental well being. I'm not saying abandon her as I don't think your FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) would allow that but it is NOT the norm to live with a parent at your age, many, many, many people live alone. She can too. Life is what you make it, I have older family members who won't do what the doctor advises, you just have to let it go.... it's their choice.
I don't know what your financial set up is but a cleaner, carers, gardener can all be paid for to let her live alone and provide some companionship. Imv that is the way to go.

I felt very sad reading your post. You have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about. Your mum should feel guilty for how she and your father treated you during your childhood - and how she's become totally dependent on you, now denying you the chance to live your own life. It's frustrating that you and your ex-h allowed her to move in with you after you'd escaped from your toxic home life. If only she'd never wormed her way in to your home she would have had to learn how to cope on her own. I really don't know what the answer is but I agree that you need to detach yourself from her and start living your life. I know it'll be so difficult. I wish I had better advice to offer 💐

www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?board=37.0
Have a read of this section, people with personality disorders can get much worse as they get older

There’s so much in your OP but the part where your ex suggested she live with you just stopped me in my tracks.

You’re quite clear in your mind what you want, now you need support to put it into action. I’d look into moving her into sheltered housing, be very firm, don’t be distracted. Even if you lived in a shoebox it would be your own.

It’s exhausting but you must start setting boundaries for what’s acceptable. She can’t hit you now, but she’s still abusing you. When she does things you don’t want her to tell her.

Try going over to the Stately Homes thread, have a read. Look st the Out of The Fog website, you’ll find it helpful I think.

Hello everyone

Thank you so much. I've felt such loyalty to my mum that I've never spoken about her like this to anyone, anywhere. Even when I had psychotherapy I didn't discuss it because I felt that she brought me up on her own and she had an abusive father herself. She didn't deserve to be talked about. My father wasn't nice to her and he took her hundreds of miles away from her family and where she knew people. And she should have gone back, with me, the moment they split up (when I was very young) and not proceeded to then live through me. We both would have had a much healthier time of it. But she didn't and it is what it is.

I'm not going to sell the house, leave her to her own devices. She's in her late 80s and soon she will either have to move into a home (which she is adamant she will never do, and I felt previously that I had to facilitate that, but her mobility and other health issues are such that it will happen sooner rather than later), have to attend centre when I'm not around, or she will come to the end of her life.

What I am going to do - and thank you everyone for helping me see things a lot more clearly - is to withdraw, and when I feel guilty about withdrawing to remember your kind and helpful responses. And if she has needs then I'll refer her to the appropriate people who can then help her in a professional capacity. There is patient transport to the hospital if she has an appointment on a day that I'm not available, and I'll arrange that rather than either rescheduling my own plans or arranging a different day. This is going to take enormous resolve on my part!

My studies come to an end soon, and I'm going to work on my feelings of guilt and responsibility. However, I've already increased the time I'm working and will increase it further next year and that's how it will be. If she's lonely, I'll start resuggesting she attend a day centre or an afternoon activity at the hospital (she won't, I guarantee it).

I'll also be doing a huge amount of thinking about relationships. I knew deep down I was in a situation where I wasn't (allowed to be) a fully functioning adult woman. I was just....a bit lost in the fog.

I'm so glad I decided to post today. It was scary.

You’re not alone.

Don’t forget we’re ultimately responsible for our own behaviour. Your mother may have had awful life circumstances but that’s not your fault or your responsibility. She’s choosing to be the way she is.

I'm relieved that you sound so switched on, you deserve some happiness in your life, please let us know how you get on, you can always come back for support, anytime

Work on Accepting that she won't have a social life, she won't have friends, she won't get fit, she won't look after herself. It is how it is.
But you don't have to accept the role she has given you.

I'm going to do exactly that, and I'm starting not accepting that role.

As she's become more frail she has more needs that she wants me to fulfil. But it's not happening. And that's where my immense guilt comes from right now. She's done nothing to help herself, and I keep thinking but...but... Yet in her position I'd be doing my bloody best to keep active, to keep my mind busy, to keep seeing people. I'd go mad otherwise. I'm angry with her for not helping herself and for expecting me to do more for her instead!

@SallyD I don't know what I was thinking about when she moved in with me and my ex! I'd been ill and was worn down and had no energy to go and see her and my ex presented it as being company for me and she could help me about the house and such like, but really he just didn't want to ever travel 500 miles just to see one of my parents. No idea why he thought it was a good idea, tbh!

The fight I had when I was selling the marital home, dealing with my ex and other stuff, and trying to tell her I just wanted my own place and that she would be fine, it exhausted me. The whole splitting up and getting divorced was exhausting, and since my ex had taken me hundreds of miles from anyone I knew, I was on my own, so capitulated in the end out of sheer exhaustion.

Thank you all so much.

She doesn't do anything to help herself because she regards you as an extension of herself, for her you are a tool that she can use to get what she wants, like you're one of those 'grabbers' that old people use when they can't bend over anymore, for her you are just a more sophisticated version of that
she has stolen so much of your energy and your life force, think about what you could have been and done if you hadn't had add her tied to you like a millstone

I think the reason she clings to you is that she understands that you are a very strong fighter of a person, she just wants to harness all your energy and your strength and put it to use for her benefit

I would go back to counselling and talk about everything . Just opening up to someone can be liberating and you will possibly get good advice on how to deal with the guilt brought on by having a frail and unhappy DM.

Yes Fatshedra if she could go back to the same one she’d get the warmest welcome, as they’ll have been longing for her to talk about the DM.

By the way everyone, my mum is late 80s and my dad in his 90s. They were older parents when they had me, which is obviously now a big advantage... (ahem).

I won't sell my home. I'm absolutely adamant about that. I have a really (potentially) lovely little house in a lovely area with lovely neighbours and I'm not giving it up. I would really feel that she'd won the whole bloody half-century long fight if I did that. Next year, I will be earning a lot more than I do/can right now. I will start doing things to the house that I want. She can't physically stop anything, although the no, no, no, no, no will be out in force! I will be out a lot more than I am currently. I'm happy to do a little for her, yet I won't be consumed by her like I have been. A peaceful homelife will come some enough, and I'm going to make bloody sure that when it comes my home is just exactly how I want it to be. And she can lump it or leave it.

I'm going to start having a particular group of friends round, and I shall ask her to go upstairs when they're here. [Out of the way].

It's definitely going to get better, thanks to your support.

I'm relieved that you sound so switched on

I feel that this has been brewing for a long time, and that everyone here has confirmed my deepest feelings about it all. I just haven't vocalised it before, so have been stuck for a long while.

I will come back. Maybe soon, maybe not quite so soon. But now I know I've no cause for guilt, I feel a million times better, and in a much better and clearer position to get on with MY life, not my mother's.

Thanks everyone.

Look up enmeshment.