Can't make DH understand the hurt re: his DPs

[alonelygoatherd]

I'm really struggling with my DH at the moment. We used to get on well with his DPs, although his DM has always been very controlling. It all came to a head one weekend away and resulted in a heated argument. MIL was tipsy and in a provoking mood and kept making sly, then gradually overt digs at me. It resulted in me telling her she was out of order and being blinkered, and then she called me various names and made lots of harsh comments that I'd rather not repeat in full. One of the lighter insults was that I was taking advantage of her DS by taking mat leave (DD was under 6m old and I was on good mat pay). My DH stepped in when his DF began to get physically intimidating.

I found it very difficult to forgive my DH for that night. I spent hours awake worrying, crying and holding our DD who had been sleeping in the next room but luckily didn't wake. It feels pathetic to admit, but I was on my period and was too scared to use the bathroom to change my sanitary wear in case they heard and started on me again as the bathroom was next to the bedroom they were using. He left me to go sit on the bed with his DPs who asked him such things as "are you okay" and "why do you love her". To this day he maintains there was nothing wrong in them asking this as they just wanted to know and the questions didn't cast any shade on me.

The next day I apologised for anything I said in the heat of the moment that was harsh, but his DPs wouldn't acknowledge. His DB starting texting saying their DM was complaining of chest pains after what had happened, etc. His DB totally cut me out of every aspect of his life.

Fast forward a few years and it is as if I don't exist. We have maintained sending Christmas/birthday cards to them but they ignore mine or don't send a Christmas card if it involves writing my name. When I was pregnant with our second child, I had to go in for an emergency c-section. They expected to be kept informed but passed on no well wishes to me and then sent a new baby card which obviously didn't mention my name. It's like I'm dead.

I said to DH that if he wants to maintain a relationship then that's up to him, but if they've never apologised to me or made any effort with me then I don't want to be involved. I've let him take our DD and DS to see them on a few occasions. It makes me sad to think of them together without me, as if I don't exist,but I don't want to be the lesser person. DH won't talk about them to me and when he does it's always with a sad face. Occasionally when we argue this gets brought up. Such as a birthday and no card, etc. I can't understand that he doesn't get angry on my behalf that they pretend I don't exist. I say to him that they have so little involvement with the DC, but he says that's his fault because he doesn't take them to see them too often and that they haven't apologised as he told them to leave it at the time of the event. I've explained that that really hurts because it implies that it's my fault as he stays with me and the DC, and surely they could make the effort to apologise or make some contact as they aren't children. Even he agrees that they were very much in the wrong that night, but it doesn't seem to bother him that they are happy to have a relationship with him and the DC which pretends I'm not here.

I feel so unimportant to him and feel that we will never move on because he just doesn't understand. I don't know how to explain how it all makes me feel. I can't even cry because I'm just so resigned about it. If I ever bring it up he just says "oh here we go, how do you bring it round to this" and calls me childish. He becomes very patronising and goads me until I say something stupid and then he tells me how immature I am. This is something he always does in disagreements, needles away until I say something I regret, then crows that I'm so childish and says it's not worth talking to me. He's also the master of the black mood which will put me on edge all day if things don't go the way he wants them to go.

I just don't know what to say to him. I just want to be treated like the woman he loves and has built a life with, rather than someone who he criticises if I don't do things the way he thinks I should do them. I think the disagreement with his DPs just highlights how he seems to not understand me or put me first.

Sorry for the length, I just needed to vent I think. I feel so trapped in this stupid cycle.

Firstly I think you do need to talk to him, whether he likes it or not, as his mother is obviously the type to make nasty remarks. What happens when she makes nasty remarks about you to your children?

You need to being this to his attention, do it in a professional businesslike way, so he will recognise it when it happens.

He is trying to shut you up because it’s the easiest route FOR HIM. His parents sound horrendous and he’d rather throw you under a bus than displease them.

If you are prepared to live with that, then stop mentioning them , warn him
About the parental alienation, talk to your kids about keeping secrets and how it’s bad to keep things from you, and never remind him about Christmas or birthdays or anything to do with them.

Are there other members of his family you see? If so, cultivate a great relationship with them (if you like them) so your children can see there is a bond between you and their father’s family.

I presume they are not invited to your house so miss out on children’s birthday parties etc.

You can not get them to apologise to you. You can change how you react. Business head on. Ignore them. When your children are older you can tell them that granny and granddad made a bad choice and you don’t see them. Live your life well and spend time with your own friends and family so your children can experience what it’s like to be normal and happy.

If you are not prepared to live being second best, start to think about what you would do if you left...

Great post from Palmers. I echo the part about not reminding him about birthdays, Christmas etc - don't you get drawn into sending the cards for them and so on. Plus don't ever ask about them - you said he doesn't talk about them to you, so mirror that yourself. Basically stop anything that even hints you feel guilty about all this. You shouldn't.

Why stay with a coward like him? What value does he bring to your life? He's chosen an easy life with mummy and daddy dearest vs you,his wGive yourself a beautiful Christmas gift and get a divorce

"His wife"

Thank you all. I do love him and when things are great, they are wonderful. It's just as if this thing is always in the background and undermines things. @PalmersGreen comment that he's taking the easy way out for him really resonates. He won't confront it with his parents and he won't discuss it with me, so he buries his head in the sand.
I do worry that they will make comments about me and that the DC will wonder why I'm not there and will blame me as they get older. I have friends who have said they wouldn't allow any contact, but I worry that would damage mine and DH's relationship further.
Unfortunately there is only DH's DB and his family who have cut me out too. I did message DSIL to say I would like to maintain our relationship (particularly for the kids) but she never replied.
Their family dynamic is strange as MIL is very manipulative but none of them see it and rush to her when she plays the victim card. For example, shortly after the argument she text DH to wish him a happy Valentine's day. I saw this as we share a laptop and the notification popped up on the account linked to his phone. When I said to him I thought it was inappropriate and stirring, he got very defensive and raised his voice, even getting angry with my DM who was in the house with us at the time. He said it was a tradition! It sounds so petty but it's small things like that that I can't even put it to words properly!

One more thing is that when I say he needs to step up he says he's sorry that he's weak with regards to it but then nothing changes so I just think... and?!?

She is most likely stirring it and your DH probably won’t recognise the mean girl tactics. It’s bloody unfair I know. The thing is, the more you try and point it out, the more he will blame you. If you say nothing however, are happy and carefree in life, he’ll see it’s his nasty mother who is mean, the opposite of you.

You say he doesn’t take the children a lot to see his parents. Don’t encourage him to do it more. Just don’t mention it. Children don’t need grandparents like that. If home life is nicer than visiting his parents, he’ll go even less. His choice but as he’s choosing the easiest route for him, that’s what he’ll do. He won’t want to go and listen to his drunk mother be abusive about people.

They are bitter and twisted. They are ignoring you. I would bet my mortgage you are mentioned pin some sarcastic way every time he sees them. If he stops hearing anything v about them from you, he will start hearing what she says loud and clear.

This is who he is and who his family are, they aren’t going to change anytime soon. If you really can’t accept it, move on.

You keep saying ‘he doesn’t understand’, I think he does and this is way of dealing with the situation. I can’t help but think that ‘he doesn’t understand’ is your excuse to stay in a relationship that doesn’t work for you on a fundamental level.

This going around in circles must be exhausting for you both. You are constantly looking for things to provoke a discussion that never results in progress. I’d think a mother sending their son a Valentines card odd but you declaring it inappropriate and requiring confirmation of your thoughts is controlling.

You’ve decided to stay in the relationship and have more children, handwringing is going to change him.

They are bitter and twisted. They are ignoring you. I would bet my mortgage you are mentioned pin some sarcastic way every time he sees them. If he stops hearing anything v about them from you, he will start hearing what she says loud and clear.

This.

I think in time you'll become more confident in yourself as you see the above play out.

Please don't become smug at this point snd say I told you they were 'unreasonable '

Just smile to yourself. Breathe a sigh of relief and enjoy the rest of your life.

I think he does get it but can’t deal with it. I imagine what he hears when you open a conversation like this is you cannot leave the past in the past and expect him to sort the situation out when he doesn’t know how to.

My dh is totally like this. He hides. It took him 20 years to admit there is something different about his father (he has a lot of autistic traits). Until the point when I could properly explain the behaviour as potentially undiagnosed autism he treated me as though I was horrible for even suggesting his father was different. It is my family, who is horrid to me and he also couldn’t handle it. For a long time he saw me as the problem because I was goaded until I exploded. He now sees the truth.

I don’t know why you apologised. It doesn’t sound as if the situation was of your making. I would also be very careful of your dh taking the children. My mother, sil and brother started to treat dd as they treat me when she was about 6 and it escalated to an intolerable point at 7. I handled the situation very well with dhs support. Your husband otoh doesn’t have the ability to protect your children from his family because he is choosing not to see how they are.

It sounds like he’s worried that if he confronts them he will then lose them and I’m wondering if you expect him to have no contact with them?
I don’t think the way he has done things is right and obviously that night he acted that badly but based on how they have acted I imagine he could confront them and nothing would change. He probably knows that and knows there’s a real risk he could be cut off.
I don’t think you can underestimate the fear of that and the family tie even when it’s dysfunctional or even toxic.
It’s horrible for you but I also think he’s stuck between a rock and a hard place. In his place I wonder if I’d do the same thing as I couldn’t cope with losing my family. I know it’s easy to say but I think you need to find a way to accept the way things are and move past it

Handwringing isn’t going to change him.

The comprise is you not seeing his parents and him not expecting you to. Trying to re-litigate the past at every opportunity is only going to breed more and more resentment and that will prove fatal to your marriage.

I’m not saying you have no right to feel hurt and less important but it is a consequence of choosing to stay in a relationship with him.

Don’t waste your breath talking to a man who has let this go on for years.

Plan, then leave. You’ve given these people enough.

Thank you all for the different perspectives. I think you're right in that he does understand but just wants to take the easy route, which disappoints me. I'd been hoping he would sit them down and say that he didn't like the way they were treating me, etc. But after a few years I need to accept that he won't. He's a good man in many ways but I need to accept that in this way he's not as I'd want him to be. Thank you again.

If I ever bring it up he just says "oh here we go, how do you bring it round to this" and calls me childish. He becomes very patronising and goads me until I say something stupid and then he tells me how immature I am. This is something he always does in disagreements, needles away until I say something I regret, then crows that I'm so childish and says it's not worth talking to me. He's also the master of the black mood which will put me on edge all day if things don't go the way he wants them to go.

Well the apple didn't fall far from the tree did it.

"Thank you all for the different perspectives. I think you're right in that he does understand but just wants to take the easy route, which disappoints me. I'd been hoping he would sit them down and say that he didn't like the way they were treating me, etc."

Your first sentence is partially correct but his inertia and FOG play roles here. He has and will continue to throw you and your kids under the bus because he still seeks their approval, approval they will never give him. Your second sentence above has not and will not likely ever happen. He is sorry to some extent that he is weak but he is and remains far more afraid of his parents than he ever is and or would be of you as his wife. His way of dealing with them is the above i.e. not at all dealing with them. Dysfunctional families can and do use control and the threat of disinheritance to further control and exert an iron grip.

He has had a lifetime of his parents abusive conditioning and this along with fear, obligation and guilt (known as FOG and he has that in spades re them particularly with regards to his abusive mother) will keep him trapped. What he fails to realise sadly too is that his own inertia too when it comes to his parents hurts him as well as you people. It may always be the case.

It is not your fault nor your DHs that they are like this. Such people like his parents do not apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

He may still choose to have a relationship with them but that does not mean that you have to follow and nor for that matter should your children. Your H cannot protect them from his parents malign influences in any case so you need to do so. Your children will receive a bunch of mixed messages here from his parents and likely make unchallenged comments on you and your absence. If they cannot and will not respect you as their mother, why should your children be subjected to them further. Would you have tolerated this from a friend, no you would not have done. You need to maintain firm and consistently applied boundaries.

Do read "Toxic Inlaws" by Susan Forward to further understand the dynamics. Read more too about fear, obligation and guilt. You likely come from a nice and importantly, an emotionally healthy family. Your DH has clearly not. It may be an idea for you to read and or post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages too.

And what Palmers and mummyoflittledragon wrote earlier.

Great input from PalmersGreen.

I wonder whether couples counselling would help you discuss this? If you have broached a discussion several times and always end up in the same miserable dead end which is unsatisfactory to both of you it can help to have a non judgmental facilitator.

It’s possible that a counsellor could help him understand the position he is in, brought up and influenced by toxic parents. He sounds trapped but not knowing how to escape or make it right.

Would he consider counselling? To help you address this difficult situation together?

Imo pretend they don't exist. Never mention them at all. After all why would you allow them head space or allow them to get into your marriage in a negative way? Let dh have his relationship with them. Maybe without feeling you are pressuring him he will see them for the toxic dps they are.
If your dc ever let on you were mentioned in a bad way you can stop them going.

He sounds like the kind of man who will never put you first, and has probably learned the game playing behaviour from his parents. Don't expect him to change, he knows their behaviour is horrible but doesn't care much.

Hi all,

Thank you for replying previously. I've taken all you said on board and it's been really helpful.

I found out last night that DH has been messaging his parents all along and sending pictures of the DCs and updates on stuff. I feel absolutely gutted that he's been doing this all behind my back while saying (without me asking) 'oh I never message them anymore...' He's very apologetic and says he's sorry that he lied and has sent so much. It's been pretty much daily or every other day.

I'm so hurt that it's all been behind my back. He must have been sending me pictures of the DCs during special moments and then sending them to them before turning back as if he's still in the moment with me. He even talked about them having a sleepover there, although he says he just didn't know how to say no to them.

The sad thing is I'm not overly surprised. I just feel quite empty at the moment and I'm not sure why really. The tone of the messages is very much business as usual in their relationship and as if they have the right to ask all these details, like it's a healthy relationship.

He says he has nightmares about not seeing them and them dying, etc. I don't know what to think. I just wish he hadn't lied and carried on with this alongside my relationship with him while trying to convince me he wasn't really in contact. Does it sound really OTT to say I feel like he's betrayed my trust? I'm really open with him and have no secrets. He's my best friend and I tell him everything. I feel like a mug.

@PalmersGreen your input would be much appreciated

I can understand why he still wants a relationship with them but not at the cost of lying to you - his parents aren't going to change and by him enabling it it's making your relationship dodgy,.

It’s difficult isn’t it. I can see why he’d want to maintain a relationship with his parents and he’s every right to send photos and so on of his children, visit with them if he wants but it’s totally wrong to do it behind your back and lie about it.

It’s a huge trust issue. If you separate, your your children will have a closer relationship with their GP’s because you will have no say on visits, etc during your DH`s time with the children.

I do understand how he still wants a relationship and feel sorry for him in this position. Then at the same time I think, but I didn't cause it. The more distance from the original argument we get, the more I just worry about what kind of influence they would have. I just don't trust them! One of this things his mother said during the argument was to mock the anniversary of my DF's death. I can't ever forgive that and what kind of person would do that? My DF was a very kind man which makes it even worse that she could say that.