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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Think I am being done over...

44 replies

Whathewhatnow · 05/09/2019 16:39

Please can I have a sense check from people removed from my situation? I've name-changed but I am a long-time poster.

It’s the age-old thorny issue of splits of assets on separation ….Ex is proposing something that I feel is unfair. We are in the SE and for various reasons need to stay in the same area – the numbers below are big, but they are relative to where we live.

To outline the situation:

Together for 14 years. I instigated split. Two children who we are agreed we will share residency of exactly equally.
House in the SE that we cannot afford to keep, which we both agree should be sold to enable us to buy our own places – neither can afford to buy out the other’s equity, and neither wants one of us to rent a place, deferring the sale until later.
House has considerable equity if it sells for around its current value – around £500,000 of equity before fees.

Both employed full time now, although for around 2/3 of our relationship I’ve either been on a career break/ working part-time/ on maternity leave to enable me to care for children.
He has been FT employed throughout - his salary has therefore increased at a faster rate than mine, and he has also been paying into pension whereas my payments have been reduced. He had savings predating the relationship of around £170,000. 7 years ago we bought our first house. Shortly before the purchase, I inherited £100,000 and we both put exactly £100,000 in as house deposit, rest being made up by a joint mortgage. Legally, we are joint tenants. The sol’s agreement at the time was clear that if we sold during the relationship we would split the house proceeds equally. Some of his remaining £70,000 of savings have gone on monthly overspends, general household expenditure whilst I wasn’t earning at full whack, childcare costs, etc, during the course of the relationship. A large chunk has gone on home improvements. There is some cash left (not a great deal) in savings, and some sunk into a newish car (on which there is also a loan outstanding).

My proposal is for him to take the remaining savings and the car, and split the proceeds of the house sale, with me making some sort of adjustment in light of the fact that I have effectively used up some of his savings over the course of our relationship. I also thought he had agreed to make an adjustment in light of the fact that my pension has tanked but I know legally he does not have to do this at all, and now I am less sure that he will…

He is arguing that we should split our total assets after the house has sold, in direct proportion to the amount we both brought into the relationship. I.e., he had 63% of our total savings and I had 37%, therefore he should get the same proportion from the proceeds of the house sale and from the remaining savings.

This would leave him around £130,000 better off than me. We were explicit when buying the house that we were putting in the same amount as a deposit, and that is why we went for joint tenancy rather than tenants in common.

His position is that he “could claim that all his savings went into the house” and that we have been lucky because the house has gone up in value. It does not account for the fact that the savings were spent for our mutual, joint benefit.

I haven’t spoken to a lawyer yet, as I was hoping we could sort this all out amicably but we seem to have very different ideas of what is fair in this situation.

If you got to the end of that, thank you – and I will read and respond to all views even if they don’t gel with my own.

Even when it’s amicable, it’s not straightforward is it?

OP posts:
AiryFairyMum · 05/09/2019 16:46

Sorry, can't spot in your post, aee you married?

BaronessBomburst · 05/09/2019 16:47

You had children together which resulted in your pension taking a hit, and his savings taking a hit as he had to top up the family pot. Who has lost most?
Tbh I see it as being 50/50 and don't think that you should be making any adjustments.

Namechanged4today · 05/09/2019 16:48

After 14 years of marriage I am pretty sure the law would say 50-50 INCLUDING all pension funds. See a solicitor - fast.

NewMe2019 · 05/09/2019 16:49

He's talking bollocks. Half each for the house seems fair in your situation. All his savings didn't go into the house so what he's saying isn't even accurate. Given his pension is bigger and you had a career break to look after children which impacted your earnings, you are likely to be awarded a bigger share than 50% anyway. You are also entitled to half his pension.

Get legal advice. STBEXH and I agreed terms but I still got legal advice and am getting in all done properly. In our case I put the full deposit in and paid for all improvements. We are joint tenants but our agreement is I'm getting the house, ex getting very small payout, keeping his pension and I won't claim spousal maintenance. I didn't work for years, only work part time and he has a decent full time job with much better earning capacity. I'm also primary carer of the DCs. All this gets taken into account.

Provision for children is the highest priority. If you both need equal homes, he isn't going to get a bigger share! Plus he can borrow more than you.

BaronessBomburst · 05/09/2019 16:49

I was presuming that you weren't married from your comment about not having any claim on his pension.

Whathewhatnow · 05/09/2019 16:50

We are not married. Sorry. I should have made that clear.
I know. I know. I know. Big mistake.
I'm less bothered about the law than what is morally right. I'm pretty sure the law is on my side wrt the house proceeds.

OP posts:
Namechanged4today · 05/09/2019 16:54

Sh*t not married. Okay - house should still be 50-50 as it is joint tenants.

Whathewhatnow · 05/09/2019 16:57

Sh*t indeed 😀

OP posts:
RandomMess · 05/09/2019 17:04

After 24 years together and you financially sacrificing your career and pension he should be giving you the savings as well as half the house...

Thank goodness house is legally 50:50!

billy1966 · 05/09/2019 17:06

Definitely 50/50

Get good advice.

You need to protect yourself and therefore your children.

Make it clear to him, he tries to rip you off, he is ripping off his children.

Best of luck.

Whathewhatnow · 05/09/2019 17:11

I wasn't expecting unanimity. Thanks all.

To add insult to injury both me and youngest child were ill during his first year and the career break was to give him and me time to recover. And i did almost all the donkey work renovating the house. It was a big job. I know that doesnt matter but ot makes it smart all the more. Silly bugger, he is going to piss our kids security up the wall by making us both spend out on lawyers. And he will not get what he wants.

OP posts:
Whathewhatnow · 05/09/2019 17:15

Just to clarify, it is 14 years together not 24. I couldn't have hacked that 🤣

OP posts:
RandomMess · 05/09/2019 17:20

If the house is legally 50:50
There is no point him contesting that.

EileenAlanna · 05/09/2019 17:31

The house split should be 50/50 as that's what you each own, and both understood & accepted that it's what you each own. Legally, this is your only firm ground so don't give any away.
Morally, my view is that you've both contributed equally in the relationship, with both direct financial input & indirect financial input involved in child care. One however is left in a disadvantaged position wrt pension etc as a result of that.
If the savings are held in joint names then you're legally entitled to it. It's easy to say when a relationship ends that one should have all/most of it but that wasn't the intention when it was set up & in place for years, just like the 50/50 ownership of the house.
Who has the car & has it been used mainly/exclusively by them? If they're keeping it after the split & it's heavily financed then it's their responsibility to keep paying for it or sell it & deal with the finance company themselves. If it was genuinely a family car then sell & any shortfall to the finance company gets taken from the joint savings.

SophieSong · 05/09/2019 17:32

I'm not versed in the law but from a moral standpoint I agree 50/50.

Whathewhatnow · 05/09/2019 17:35

Thanks again, @RandomMess and everyone else who has replied.

The positive thing about this is that it makes me very sure I am doing the right thing by leaving him.

OP posts:
Whathewhatnow · 05/09/2019 18:08

@EileenAlanna thank you, i will absolutely not be giving way.
The disadvatage thing you mention is my take on it. I genuinely think he doesnt see.
Actually i think he is punishing me for ending the relationship. Despite him being a significant contributor to the relationship's demise.
It's hard to keep a cool head and not be overtaken with disgruntlement!
Car is a family car and I have used as much as he. No point selling as would lose a huge amount. I see your point tho.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 05/09/2019 18:19

I agree, 50/50 split on the house.

As far as the rest, don't short yourself simply because you are feeling guilty because you are the one who wants the split or simply because you don't want the car. He's already shown he's willing to screw you out of part of your share of the equity so don't feel you have to be generous. You are the one who is going to have to do more 'rebuilding' of your financial situation since you're the one who was disadvantaged by staying home part of the time, especially when it comes to your personal savings and pension pots.

Get the car valued. The car is an asset. Then balance the value of the car less the outstanding loan vs the amount in savings. Divide the car value and the total savings in half and that is each of your 'share'. Go from there as far as who gets the car and who gets more in cash.

Now if the savings and/or the car are in his sole name, you're SOL. He's not going to play nice once he realizes that you aren't going to settle for less than 50/50 on the house.

lawnmowingsucks · 05/09/2019 18:30

Sending you ThanksThanks

Whathewhatnow · 05/09/2019 22:10

@Acrossthepond55 thank you. I kind of feel that he can keep the car because it was in effect bought from 'his' savings. It's not really because I feel guilty. It is the case that he was in a better financial position when he came into the rrlationship, and morally, I do feel that that should be recognised a little bit. That is why I feel proprtionate adjustments should be made in respect of all assets, including pensions accrual and curtailment of earning potential.

I'm going to have to get a sol, aren't I??

@lawnmowingsucks thank you. It's amazing how sometimes this place can be so supportive. I'm sometimes reluctant to go on about all this to RL friends as no-one wants to be the aggrieved divorcing friend . On the other hand it is very easy to see why so many parties in separation (mostly women) become so aggrieved. Money is what it all comes down to in the end isn't it? All the warm moral words and promises mean nothing if not by hard cash.

OP posts:
Whathewhatnow · 05/09/2019 22:12

If not backed up by cold hard cash. Ffs.

OP posts:
AMAM8916 · 05/09/2019 22:45

50/50 of everything. House, what's left of the savings, pensions and if he is happy to pay the loan on the car, he can keep the car. Why should you not take any of the savings, any of his pension and take less of equity from the house? I feel you doing yourself out of things here. So what if he brought more savings in? They were spent on things for the family, children he half created as well as you!

Don't be a push over here. Insist on half the equity of the house, half the savings and a fair pension split. Anything else is unfair on you

billy1966 · 05/09/2019 22:46

Exactly OP.

Anything but hard cash is not going to give you and your children security going forward.

👍💐

AMAM8916 · 05/09/2019 22:46

Just realised you're not married. Ok well you can insist on half the equity from the house because nothing was ring fenced when you bought it was it?

Whathewhatnow · 05/09/2019 23:08

No nothing ring-fenced, @AMAM8916.

And thanks again for the support folks. It's been a horrible day but you lot have made me feel better. You bunch of vipers :)

OP posts: