Money and debt

[Mynameisnotthis]

I’m in a bit of spin

A couple of times in the past I’ve discovered my husband is in debt. The first time was when we moved in together 10 years ago and when we went on the electoral role loads of old catalogues, council tax etc caught up with him. He’d had a hard time, lost both his parents young so I paid them off. He was v grateful. We moved into a mortgaged house a year later.

Twice in that time he’s run up credit, loans etc. We paid a load off when I got s redundancy pay a while back.

Then he dabbled in buying and selling on eBay with a hope to make a profit. He didn’t and ended up with thousands on s credit card. Instead of concentrating on just paying them off he took a loan higher than the outstanding amount and now pays the loan back.

You can see where this is going can’t you? He now has another £3k on cards. He’s been lying to me. It all came to a head last night.

It’s only from opening up to a friend today that I can see I’ve been a mug.

We have 2 young children. I’m on maternity leave.

This is the end isn’t it

does he earn enough to eventually pay it all back. for example 100pounds a month and he gives the rest to you for bills and food.

He refuses to show me what’s outstanding and says it’s his to deal with. He does earn enough, he’s been working shit loads of overtime and yet his debt has increased rather than decreased

ExH racked up loads of debt when we were together. I left him and it became marital debt. I took on the whole lot to keep the house, and paid it off over 6 years. Now I'm debt free and he has racked it back up again. People like this don't change. I'm just glad this isn't my life anymore because the cycle of debt doesn't end.

How does it become marital debt? I don’t want to become responsible for it but also don’t want to spend the rest of my life like this.

I’m heart broken and trying to care for my two DC today

The same way that assets in the marriage are marital assets. The whole lot goes in and the net figure is the starting point for negotiations.

Is he gambling or something? If he has more debt, why is that?

gemma i believe he is but he won’t admit it

That’s so unfair isn’t it, get to stress about the debt while married and then be responsible for paying it when not

He won't stop doing it OP. This is a classic cycle - accrue, bailed out. Rinse and repeat. Bailed out includes getting a loan to consolidate the credit card debt, then of course has continued to use the cards... this was such a common story when I did bankruptcy work and it always ended when they couldn't get another loan to consolidate or no one else would bail them out.

Whilst you are together the debt isn't marital debt but as PP said it might all go in the pot if you divorce. If he dealt with it now by way of a management plan or bankruptcy it would be his debt only any wouldn't affect you.

I would be very concerned that he won't show you the details of the debt. I would get your own credit report today (free online from lots of places) and check he hasn't taken anything out in your name or jointly without your knowledge - you would be liable for those debts by the way.

I got divorced last yeara. Exhs debt that were in his name didnt not become marital debt.

It's not his business to sort because he doesnt sort it.

You bail him out, he does it again.

I was with a man terrible with money. The one I divorced. I have spent the last few years poorer. However, I know all my Bill's are paid, not debt to be uncovered or some big bombshell.

It's taken a few years to stop being afraid of a knock at the door or the post coming.

Turned our one of the reasons he was so bad with money was that he had a child thay had been born a year before I met him. I was married for 15 years. With him 18 and I didnt know. I spoke to the child (well was an adult at this point) she had been under the impression, I was the one stopping exh from seeing the child. She was gobsmacked that I didnt know. We are actually quite good friends and I see her son more than his own dad.

I dont feel she is to blame. But I wish I had known. I would have welcomed the child as part of exhs family and would have supported him pay CMS and more.

I generally find people who stack up debt, with no real reason, have a reason. They just dint want you to know. Gambling, drugs, other children (in my case) etc.

It's horribly unfair. I have debt and could NEVER do that to a partner, not in a million years. But I have had it done to me, it was part of other abusive behaviour. I could not stand someone borrowing money and never paying it back, then denying it, hiding what is for (gambling and paying friends etc. back for THEIR kind loans) and THEN continuing to gamble, but deny it, and say go food shopping, take my 30 quid and spend a fiver of it down the bookies. He did this several times (more fool me), but always denied what he was doing.

Being lied to is hideous and you can't trust someone who is doing this to you over money. Gamblers have a weird mindset, that somehow they will win back all their losses by continuing to gamble what are often even larger amounts every time. You will never be safe with one. And they usually have a massive sense of entitlement to everyone else's money.

Oh god.

How could I have been so stupid.

I couldn't live with the stress of someone playing fast and loose with money, especially when it is in effect "marital assets or marital debt". And he lied. Why do you think he's gambling, but are not sure, does he gamble sometimes?

Anyway, I would never hitch my wagon to someone who has a gambling issue. You could be out in the street overnight with no warming. If I really loved them and couldn't live without them , I would still divorce them and keep my own money separate if that makes sense?

I don't know how women stay married to gamblers - I think its one of the most destructive things for the other party. Even one relapse could mean the loss of everything and lifelong debts for the innocent party.

£3,000 pales into insignificance compared to what some married partners lose - so you are relatively lucky to have found out so soon. So please don't be hard on yourself. He could have more (hidden) debt of course.

Its your decision. But if gambling is involved in any way, I'd get out immediately - you can go to a solicitor and get them to draw up a special agreement (forget the name) which means from that day forward your finances are completely separate.

What were all the (presumably secret) credit loans for last time round?

He still has a loan from before so it’s actually about £11k. You’re right. I want financial security. Not to be rich, we don’t have loads but I’d be happy with what we’ve got. But it doesn’t feel safe.

I feel he’s not interested in the long term future of our children. I love them so much and don’t want to destroy the family unit but I can’t live like this.

I once had to use his phone for something. It opened on a betting page (legitimately, I wasn’t snooping) and it show deposits totalling something stupid like £800. His response was to shout, tell me it was none of my business and change his passcode on his phone.

Wait, it would be me destroying it would it?

I mean it wouldnt

He took a couple of things in credit - think computer/iPad without truly considering the impact on monthly spending. Then bought stuff on eBay to do up and sell but it didn’t quite work out . Then borrowed to pay that off but borrowed more than was due. Tbh I think it’s a mix of living beyond his means and probably gambling too

To protect your own future and that of your children, you need to strictly separate your finances from him.

Try to gently engage him to open up about the gambling. If he agrees to get counselling, he could be saved. Many, however, will deny till their last breath. It really is one of the worst addictions on planet Earth.

My ex denied, attacked, was aggressive, gave me the silent treatment. I could not do it anymore, throw in the nasty comments which were verbally and emotionally abusive, other lies and laziness, I was done. We had no children. I saw where his financial priorities lay. On himself and on gambling and his other addiction, weed. There was no hope for me.

You can't be held personally liable for debt in someone else's name even if you're married. You're only 'jointly and severally' liable (either of you can be chased for the full amount) if you have bills or credit in joint names and these went upaid. I'm not a solicitor / expert but I was a debt adviser for 15 years.

It's incredibly common for people to take out a consolidation loan to 'clear their debts' e.g. credit cards etc. In reality, they don't cut the cards up and these creep back up, with the resulting debt being higher. Are you sure that the loan isn't secured on your home?

National Debtline www.nationaldebtline.org/ and Stepchange www.stepchange.org are both very good charities giving free advice to anyone about problem debt. Even if it's not your debt, they can talk you through the options, but you would need an idea of what your husband owes. Him declining to share this information is a concern, as it indicates a pattern of secretive behaviour that he seems unwilling to stop

I don’t know where to start. I’m on SMP now. How do we separate finances while I’m currently relying on his salary?

He has denied many times that there is any problem with gambling. I don’t think I could live with the fear. Is it crazy that I also feel bad that if he’s in his own he’s gonna get himself in a bigger mess?

I’m gutted. He’s not the man he used to be. What you’re saying about denial and silent treatment etc rings so true. He’s making out that I’m at fault for wanting transparency and for not trusting him.

I went part time last year before I found out about the latest lot. I never would have done that if I’d known.

Thanks serenity that provides some relief. The loan isn’t secured on our home. The mortgage and deeds are in my name only so there’s no way he could have done that

OP, with a gambler dont be so sure that they can't do anything.

They can find ways round anything.

Check your own credit rating. Check his.

The Ebay thing is bullshit too. You buy something and do it up. Then sell on. You dont buy loads of stuff, getting in to debt then just give up.

He is a poor business man, or he is lying about that too. He is getting loans because he is betting his money. The credit cards and debt will be for either day to day living or more gambling. I bet chances are that he didnt sink so much into Ebay. That's his cover up.

I bet you anything he is gambling to huge proportions. As well as just buying gadgets.

He will keep doing this because you keep bailing him out. He doesnt care that its risking his families financial stability, every time you pay it off.

All he is bothered about is himself. You arent ruining your family. He has.

Ilikethisone is right. They spin so many yarns about where the money has gone.

My ex used a really bizarre story once. Then some 8 months later, pulled the same one out so he could borrow 50 quid. Unreal, but eventually they run out of alibis and willing friends and family.

I did not lose 3k, but probably a few hundred went unknowingly from me to him and then to the bookies.

At one point he had a fantastic job and as his rent was only 250 quid ALL BILLS INCLUDED, I thought he would save up. Nothing left after a year. He gambled 10, 20 quid a day without a second thought. And that's what I KNEW of.

They are liars. They have to be.

Agree they can get round anything, and able to hide activities and lie easily, as you have found out! Understand Serenty's experience and expertise, but the law on marital debt after divorce may not be black and white. And anyway, why take any chances if he's gambling, after all if he finds a way, legally or illegaly, to spend your money or assets, you won't get it back. Its a mugs game. £11K net. Its a lot of money.
Quite alot of people live on that for a year in this country.

I meant you won't get it back (from him) if he's already spent it.